Diesel days are numbered according to Renault, Peugeot & VW

[silver1011]

Seems investment is going to be taken off diesel engine development and over to electric. Shouldn't come as a surprise I guess...

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3778017/Diesel-engines-set-die-say-Renault-admit-phasing-cars.html

[Didescharlie]

Oh  - but I'll really miss the cloud of filthy black soot every single time a diesel car accelerates in front of me that's more than a couple of years old.

[cheezemonkhai]

Oh - but I'll really miss the cloud of filthy black soot every single time a diesel car accelerates in front of me that's more than a couple of years old.

Blame the stupidly long air filter change periods for that.

Oh and that doesn't exist on anything with a dpf.

Then there are the petrol issues.

The general fix would be hydrogen fuel cells or similar.

Batteries are certainly not a long term fix.

Edited 8 September, 2016 by cheezemonkhai

[Rooted]

'The Word'  from the Manufacturers that know that BMW, Daimler & VAG have already build factories and production lines to build Diesel Engines which are to use 

Electric Turbo / Superchargers and the likes for their over large and heavy vehicles.

The German Government were the ones along with the support of the UK government that were trying to delay the introduction of Euro 7 emissions 

because they knew the German Manufacturers could not meet these lower emissions with the technology they had.

(then lots  were found out not meeting euro 5 or even euro 6 if not using Defeat Devices and grey areas of EU Tests.)

[Breezy_Pete]

Mercedes have developed a load of good new diesels though. I thought I read?

Edited 8 September, 2016 by Wino

[Rooted]

Good.

All they need to do is have them tested for the real Emissions and fuel consumption and meeting Euro 7 Emissions a few years before the legislation requires and they 

are onto a winner.

Test them in all weather and climates with cars at maximum gross weight as they do pre production and then after production 

and release those figures.

Then the EU can get the New Vehicle Tests designed to match the real world a bit more.

 

The UK is leaving the EU obviously, so the UK can maybe change legislation so that Vehicles require the Emission Standards that the USA require.

[Rooted]

PS

Daimler-Benz is to sell  All Electric Mercedes-Benz branded battery cars in China i read this morning,

so maybe they can sell them in the UK as well.

Certainly get them sold in Scotland were there is surplus electricity from Renewables and charging can be free.

The Scottish Government promised charging points country wide so they just need to get a shift on with that.

Edited 8 September, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[KenONeill]

Perhaps we could test "electric" cars on the emissions of the power stations used to supply them with electricity?

[Rooted]

Exactly.  Where it comes from Power Stations generating electricity burning coal, gas, wood chips, vegetable waste-gas, nuclear etc.

 

Living in Scotland you can see obviously where the thousands and thousands of turbines are, and how many go up every week, and how many are not in use daily because they can produce more electricity than the National Grid is taking.

More than can be stored or used most of the time.

There are some schemes to produce hydrogen and run vehicles including buses and light goods vehicles (In Fife).

Sadly the Aberdeen Scheme has rubbish buses currently and more off the road than on.

 

The Turbines are still being erected daily and the capacity to generate still exceeds the electricity used.

So storage is required, and getting it into vehicles & the using it will help a bit until the infrastructure is in place.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-36402942

http://greenerscotland.org/greener-travel/greener-driving/why-buy-an-electric-vehicle

Edited 8 September, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[Aspman]

Don't worry they'll find something wrong with petrols soon.

 

Then electrics. My bet would be ozone from electric motors polluting streets (that's after them wailing about mineral extraction for batteries).

 

But they won't ban them only tax them more.

 

Give it 10yr and we'll be back to diesel again.

Edited 8 September, 2016 by Aspman

[KenONeill]

Exactly.  Where it comes from Power Stations generating electricity burning coal, gas, wood chips, vegetable waste-gas, nuclear etc.

 

Living in Scotland you can see obviously where the thousands and thousands of turbines are, and how many go up every week, and how many are not in use daily because they can produce more electricity than the National Grid is taking.

More than can be stored or used most of the time.

There are some schemes to produce hydrogen and run vehicles including buses and light goods vehicles (In Fife).

Sadly the Aberdeen Scheme has rubbish buses currently and more off the road than on.

 

The Turbines are still being erected daily and the capacity to generate still exceeds the electricity used.

So storage is required, and getting it into vehicles & the using it will help a bit until the infrastructure is in place.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-36402942

http://greenerscotland.org/greener-travel/greener-driving/why-buy-an-electric-vehicle

When you can show that we don't have a "spinning reserve" of thermal generation keeping warm to deal with peaks in demand and/or drops in windmill generation, oh and offer me an affordable "electric" car with a range of better than 200 miles, you might start to have a point.

[Rooted]

I can not show the affordable cars with the range. 

Or i would have one.

Many never do 200 miles in a week let alone on a trip in one direction in one day.

So range is not relevant there.

If on the odd occasion longer trips are needed then hire cars can be covered in cost by fuel and tax savings of fuel free motoring the rest of the time.

Or even 'EV car membership' as now available in many areas of Scotland and the rest of the UK.

 

As to the energy generation look at the figures for the Northern Isles of the UK and Renewables.

The system is messed up, which is why the EV Infrastructure and vehicles are not available.

 

Not for me to sort out, we have Governments and Civil Servants that are supposed to be on the case.

The General Public and tax payers are having enough handed out wastefully at the moment without the Pollution Reduction happening.

More Government Spin & wind than the amount of turbines turning, and there are plenty, and lots of land owners running gas guzzlers because they have plenty dosh coming in from turbines on their land.

 

http://scottishrenewables.com/sectors/renewables-in-numbers

Charging Batteries / power packs or producing hydrogen at 'Offpeak' electricity use times when you have so much renewables electricity generating capacity is not Rocket Science.

We have had 'White Meter' heating systems in homes in Scotland for generations and Industry using 'Off Peak' energy.

Using Hydro.

My Granny even cooked overnight to take advantage of cheep electricity once she got rid of a Gas Oven.

Edited 8 September, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[mac11irl]

I regularly do 150-200miles per day... in my old octy getting 55-60 mpg.. electric is a looong way from practical for me.

would probably suit swmbo day to day, but for the once or twice a month she has to go a distance while im at work... buy a 3rd car?

And i agree. Whats the real cost of batteries including mineral mining, processing and.. the crap health condition of most of the people who work in those mines (given they are generally in rag order and in countries with non existent H&S)

[cheezemonkhai]

Just need to get the hydrogen fuel cell working then.

Funny thing is the infrastructure is there for it to work (Petrol Stations) and if they can store LPG, they can do Hydrogen.

[Rooted]

Some are doing Hydrogen, and some car makers and other World Regions are all for it.

 

The Oil companies in the EU are not clearly and the European Car Manufacturers that are Eyropean owned are only going EV or Hydrogen because they have been dragged crying 

and kicking into it.

Lots of Peers of the Real in the UK have vested interests in Oil & Gas companies.

Maybe European car manufacturers as well.

 

Maggie backed diesels. and Chancellors have made Diesels the Company car choice in the UK for decades.

Vested interests and now we will see in the next Autumn Pre Budget and then the 2017 Budget.

More importantly maybe the 2018 one.

 

..........  OT, but

?

Is the UK ready to start first MOT at 4 Years from first registered yet?

[Aspman]

H2 is harder to store than LPG.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_damage

 

Energy density of H2 is lower than LPG as well which means you either need to store it at higher pressure or accept you're storing less energy.

 

H2 getting stored at 10000 PSI now and lpg is stored at <200PSI.

Edited 8 September, 2016 by Aspman

[Rooted]

From 2008.

Go back to 2005 and you will see how some community owned projects were a success then.

http://ingenia.org.uk/Ingenia/Articles/517

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-36169109

 

EDIT.

If you have more electricity than you require and can generate even more and you are not transporting it down cables you need to store and transport some how, 

and some places have lots of electricity but no storage systems or the interconnectors required.

http://shfca.org.uk/news/big-hit

Edited 8 September, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[KenONeill]

H2 is harder to store than LPG.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_damage

 

Energy density of H2 is lower than LPG as well which means you either need to store it at higher pressure or accept you're storing less energy.

 

H2 getting stored at 10000 PSI now and lpg is stored at <200PSI.

There is an easy way of storing H2; leave it attached to the carbon atoms until you burn it.

[fabiamk2SE]

Mercedes have developed a load of good new diesels though. I thought I read?

 

About time they developed some decent injectors for them! 

 

I saw a 62 plate one yesterday with more black smoke coming out the back than a horrifically remapped mk1 Fabia! 

[lol-lol]

When you can show that we don't have a "spinning reserve" of thermal generation keeping warm to deal with peaks in demand and/or drops in windmill generation, oh and offer me an affordable "electric" car with a range of better than 200 miles, you might start to have a point.

 

If the actual car meets the initial reports, and it should in the spec is as published, the GM Bolt should fill the criteria of a doubling of range over most cars and relatively reasonable price.

 

Edited 8 September, 2016 by lol-lol

[Rooted]

It is going to be a very brave manufacturer or vendor of new cars that falsify results of testing for economy, range or emissions of vehicles being sold in North America & other world regions.

Well outside of the EU...

 

Maybe why VW Group are not ready to get manufacturing and selling there yet the great new technology they have.

More testing done and re-writing of press releases and articles to feed the European Media will be required.

[mannyo]

The problems with EV in the UK at least is not just the source of energy needed to charge them up, its the lack of energy.

 

Power generation in the UK is on the verge of not having enough to meet current demand, let alone EV users plugging in their cars overnight. If enough EV's are sold I can see brown outs or total failures in some parts of the UK as supply is not able to keep up with demand.

 

Diesel is still the most prevalent fuel in France and Spain where sales of diesel cars far exceed those of petrol, in part because diesel is so cheap in those countries.

[Rooted]

England's energy shortages from the national grid.

Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland will get along just fine & have energy to provide, but then transmission costs were kept high,

that is the UK Governments choices.

 

Time that the fracking gets going under England, and oil extraction and some nuclear power stations, but then its all getting a bit late now for it keeping the lights on in homes and electricity for industry.

 

Fuel might be cheap in France, but other taxes are high which is why so many French chose to reside in the UK.

Spain is cheap which is why so many British reside in Spain. For now anyway.

Edited 8 September, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[mac11irl]

Diesel is the big seller in ROI also due to price of fuel and lowered road tax after 2008.

[@Lee]

Diesel is the big seller in ROI also due to the country folk all using green diesel.

FTFY