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EU referendum/Brexit discussion - Part 2


john999boy

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On 18/09/2017 at 16:57, Aspman said:

We're in a lose-lose position right now.

 

The referendum means that the government is (or should really be) committee to delivering an exit from European governance and law. But the Tories know now that in doing that things are going to get bad, possibly very bad for quite a long time. I don't for a minute thing the Tories actually give a **** about that, what they are worried about is getting the blame for it.

 

The EU should be putting forward an alternative view of how wonderful it'll be to stay. That it'll reform and really they'll sort out or help to sort out a lot of the problems worried about by the exiters. But no , Junkers et al are going teh easy road, make the exit hellish, make the suffering last and keep the rest of the population under the heel. So we're ****ed there too.

 

Might as well bend over and become the 51st state after all.

 

Welcome to Airstrip one

 

raf,750x1000,075,t,101010:01c5ca27c6.u1.

 

in my meetings with governbment they have been at pains to stress that they are really really keen on changing to a US based system of regulation and are not at all happy that such a move is opposed by industry.  Their logic is that we coudl boost our trade with the US by aligning our regulations with the USA, ignoring the fact that it is much much further away and several time zones removed from us. 

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On ‎19‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 13:32, CWARD said:

 

*******s. Lee intended it as in insult as did you. I guess your knowledge of basic training is from watching Full Metal Jacket and not experience.

 

As you were.

Full metal? No Sandhurst (QinetiQ civvy experimenting on effective training methods on the few humans in this country we are allowed to experiment on!). We had ample opportunity to gauge the different reaction between Officers and others. Sure, to do the experiments again on ex-army would be interesting, but not legal unfortunately. So you could well be correct. IMHO, unlikely. Not too sure why you would take it personally that your training did exactly what it was designed to do.

 

 

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If she does this, what are we arguing about? Just say - we are out because 37% of the voting population said we should leave, BUT we will pay up, keep to the rules and please can we keep trading? - That would keep me happy anyway.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41342580

Theresa May Brexit speech to be 'open and generous offer' to EU

It is thought that might include a guarantee that no EU country would lose out from changes to the EU's current budget as a result of the UK leaving.

 

We are one of the biggest contributors to the EU pot, so leaving dents the planned financial arrangements if we just go and take our cheque book with us.

If that is the promise that is roughly to the tune of £20bn, although it would be surprising if Theresa May named a figure herself - it's not her style and any actual numbers will be subject to far-off negotiations.

But in terms of the bill, that could just be the start of it. Plugging the hole in the current budget doesn't deal with what the EU sees as our long-term obligations - whether that's diplomats' pensions or our share of money that's been loaned to other countries.

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Quote

But in terms of the bill, that could just be the start of it. Plugging the hole in the current budget doesn't deal with what the EU sees as our long-term obligations - whether that's diplomats' pensions or our share of money that's been loaned to other countries.

 

I see no reason to contribute further to pay the pensions of other states MEP's pensions. Again the pensions and golden handshakes these are totally unrealistic and part of the gravy train problem the EU is known for. Money's loaned are past tense and unless we were to receive back these loan repayments as and when they occurred we end up paying twice. A transitional payment in line with current contributions tapering down whilst the EU made amendments to their budgets is fine by me but that would come at the price of full access whilst we implement our own trade deals. The EU can't have their cake and eat it.

As Juncker is stating that they will go full steam ahead or words to that effect then they should ensure their budget matches that with the member states contributing more 

Quote

The EU budget should be commensurate with its ambition and should not face cuts.

It may not go down so well with those states not jumping with joy at his ambitions that they are been asked to pay more to fund it. Although there has already been back tracking since the speech especially with the Eurozone expansion which went down like a lead balloon with the German's who will end up bank rolling it again. This would put a very large spanner in the works for Juncker who wanted a 

Quote

The European Union should have a common finance minister, possibly drawn from the existing ranks of the commission.

 

Oh well, can't please all of the people all of the time :)

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8 hours ago, S00perb said:

If she does this, what are we arguing about? Just say - we are out because 37% of the voting population said we should leave, BUT we will pay up, keep to the rules and please can we keep trading? - That would keep me happy anyway.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41342580

Theresa May Brexit speech to be 'open and generous offer' to EU

It is thought that might include a guarantee that no EU country would lose out from changes to the EU's current budget as a result of the UK leaving.

 

We are one of the biggest contributors to the EU pot, so leaving dents the planned financial arrangements if we just go and take our cheque book with us.

If that is the promise that is roughly to the tune of £20bn, although it would be surprising if Theresa May named a figure herself - it's not her style and any actual numbers will be subject to far-off negotiations.

But in terms of the bill, that could just be the start of it. Plugging the hole in the current budget doesn't deal with what the EU sees as our long-term obligations - whether that's diplomats' pensions or our share of money that's been loaned to other countries.

That must be a bit of a slap in the 'they need us more than we need them' Brexiteers faces. 'If we pay you £20B can we keep still be **** buddies for a bit and see how things go?' :D

Smacks of desperation if you ask me. The tories know damned well Brexshi7 is a disaster.
May as well just call it off. 

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-obrien-destroys-junckers-eu-speech-twist/

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The Canadian perspective.......... 
 

Quote

PM Theresa May, desperate for post-Brexit deals, plays a weak hand

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/theresa-may-weak-post-brexit-trade-deals-1.4294708

Seen elsewhere but pertinent 

 

Quote

Today, the first parts of CETA came into effect. Do people in the UK know what they throwing away by leaving the EU (and thus CETA)? After all Canada is an English speaking country?

CETA provides for tariff free trade of 98% of goods. It also permits EU professionals like engineers/engineering firms and architects to offer their services in Canada. EU degrees are automatically accepted in Canada and it will be possible to live there temporarily. (And vice versa.)

EU companies will not be able to submit tenders for Canadian government projects and vice versa.

While the Tories go on about FTAs and how the UK must be "open to the world" (without immigration of course), the UK is throwing away very good trade deals the EU has with many other countries. The UK will probably not be able to secure the same advantages, simply because it has far less bargaining power than the huge EU market.

If May really cares about the UK she'll call the whole thing off. Or, at least remain a member of the customs union and possibly try to achieve EEA status.

If you know doing something is stupid, you shouldn't do it. It's as simple as that

 

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59 minutes ago, Lee01 said:

That must be a bit of a slap in the 'they need us more than we need them' Brexiteers faces. 'If we pay you £20B can we keep still be **** buddies for a bit and see how things go?' :D

Smacks of desperation if you ask me. The tories know damned well Brexshi7 is a disaster.
May as well just call it off. 

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-obrien-destroys-junckers-eu-speech-twist/

Shhhhhh - let them think they won if this comes off - then we are all happy

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3 minutes ago, S00perb said:

Shhhhhh - let them think they won if this comes off - then we are all happy

My time for appeasing kippers and quitlings came and went. 

I found this amusing..........

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-theresa-may-speech-florence-eu-commission-michel-barnier-negotiations-divorce-bill-a7959396.html

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Just now, Lee01 said:

My time for appeasing kippers and quitlings came and went. 

TMay to give 20billion to beg for transition!!

You knoiw we only pay 180 euros per person per year - that's probably less than some parish councils and I am fairly certain we get a HELL of a lot more out of being part of Eurioe than we get out of a Parish councilk!! (and as an ex-parish clerk I can tell you, the discussions are far more interesting in Europe!)

Do we really want to save 180 euros a year each to gamble on the saving being worth it????

"Oh don't forget we get our soverenty back" - ROFL

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Theresa May to Florence to meet her Waterloo (which is very near Brussels of course).

 

My, my, at The EU Theresa May did surrender
Oh yeah, and I have met my destiny in quite a similar way
The history book on the shelf
Is always repeating itself

The EU - I was defeated, you won the war
The EU - Promise to love you for ever more
The EU - Couldn't escape if I wanted to
The EU - Knowing my fate is to be with you
The EU - Finally facing my The EU

My, my, I tried to hold you back but you were stronger
Oh yeah, and now it seems my only chance is giving up the fight
And how could I ever refuse
I feel like I win when I lose

The EU - I was defeated, you won the war
The EU - Promise to love you for ever more
The EU - Couldn't escape if I wanted to
The EU - Knowing my fate is to be with you
The EU - Finally facing my The EU

So how could I ever refuse
I feel like I win when I lose - 

The EU - Couldn't escape if I wanted to
The EU - Knowing my fate is to be with you
The EU - Finally facing my The EU

 

 

Edited by lol-lol
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At least some good news on the exchange rate of the USD for use for imports in October 2017 just published....

 

USA

US

Dollar

USD

1.3564

Eurozone

EU

Euro

EUR

1.1307

 

 

This should reverse some of the inflation caused by the weakness in the pound since August last year if it maintains.  

 

Not so great for the GBPEUR which is still well over 12% weaker where at least the GBPUSD is "only" about 8% weaker than it was Pre-BREXIT.

 

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=EUR&view=2Y

 

 

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2 hours ago, Lee01 said:

 

A newspaper poll of 1,400 adults I believe...   with 'weighted' results.

 

Not saying it's right or wrong but extrapolating to the whole population of the UK is a bit unreliable statistically - it's easy to 'weight' results to get any answer you like - so without seeing the full maths behind it surely it's to be taken with a 'pinch of salt'  ???

Edited by skomaz
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Putting it off for a further 2 years - and eventually extended, again and again and maybe forever. The longer it goes on for, the more it becomes obvious we are better as part of the club.

We Pay

We Play

We just don't have a Say

 

But that is fine with me because what the hell did the Kipper MEPs ever do (except claim all the money they could for doing nothing at all)

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She may have to offer a bit more to get the extension and I think as PM she should do whatever they ask - especially if it is a personal service for Jean-Claude Juncker (but please don't film it)

 

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May in Italy

After TONS of waffle she starts talking specifics:

Time limited agreements to be UNLIMITED - as in 'how ever long it takes to agree things' - inc movement of people

She has given away our security help - with NO conditions

Ha - a Tory double lock promise - another one!....... worth? exactly the same as the other one - nothing

And a veiled blackmail threat if they don't play ball - we will keep paying if you let us play with you

Would have been fun to set up a bulls%t bingo on her speech

The big problem with her speech is that SHE is making promises and the EU leaders are not unaware that she is one or two votes from loosing her position as leader. So those promises go out the window with her.

As one questioner stated - She lays out her positions and then concedes the positions later - NOT a strong leader!

She wants a 'deep and special partnership' - Jean-Claude Juncker do what you want with her

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All of them should be breathalysed & also give blood samples before making speeches or sitting to have negotiations on behalf of their countries.

 

Only those with Zero alcohol in their system other than that which occurs naturally & those just on medication required from conditions requiring treatment should 

be allowed to have so much influence on others lives and well being.

If they are in unfit condition to drive then they are unfit to be driving forward towards BREXIT.

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1 hour ago, Headinawayoffski said:

All of them should be breathalysed & also give blood samples before making speeches or sitting to have negotiations on behalf of their countries.

 

Only those with Zero alcohol in their system other than that which occurs naturally & those just on medication required from conditions requiring treatment should 

be allowed to have so much influence on others lives and well being.

If they are in unfit condition to drive then they are unfit to be driving forward towards BREXIT.

An old frend of my fathers Sidney Dye MP from Norfolk showed my father the speeches in parliament that totally convinced my father that the MPs were steadily getting drunker as the day went on. Both serious teetotallers, they were very angry that MPs should be allowed to do this.

Edited by S00perb
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