MK2 VRS 2.0TSI, should i be worried?

[TheClient]

1 hour ago, The1stlegend said:

 

I rang Auto Protect for the first time today and made them aware of what's happening. Seem unaware of any callouts for the saturday and Sunday that i did through them too. So might have to get evidence of those from the mechanics that were called out via auto protect if need be.

The woman i spoke to at auto protect also wasnt sure if I'd be covered if the process takes more than 14 days which probably isn't enough to get a replacement engine in time.

 

I'm thinking the same thing but as far as I'm aware the VAG group have never admitted this fault exists though? Or do i just show the sticky thread with all of the tensioner problems? Would be nice to take on VAG and get compensation for everyone that's had this issue but there must be a reason no one's attempted it before.

 

Yes, that is what I mean about third party warranties.  They have already started putting up all the hoops to jump through and road blocks and then, they say well, it might not be covered anyway if you can't get it done in xx days.  Complete horse manure most of the time these warranty providers. And you say they don't even have call records for their own call outs / assistance program? Maybe incompetent too.

 

It is sounding like you will probably end up dealing with your selling dealer if the warranty provider continue to respond in the way they have. The selling dealer has statutory responsibilities under consumer law as discussed.   It sounds like your warranty provider may be just not interested and they will never answer your questions accurately or openly or with any degree of certainty. 

 

VAG won't admit it, they have some TPI issued that indicates an "issue" though. Your action would not be against VAG. Your obvious remedy is consumer law based which means the selling dealer.  Your compensation won't be punitive or cover anyone other than yourself. It would be the cost of repair and perhaps some relevant incidentals, and you would need to prove the claim in court (unless the selling dealer settles and fixes the car before hand). 

 

You would get your own report from a recognised engineer to say the part was intended to be a for life part, requiring no maintenance, that failed prematurely and caused destruction of the engine...

 

There will be plenty of people who have threatened the selling dealer with proceedings for a faulty VAG used car before. Some, dare I say would of involved tensioner failures on EA888 series engines. Usually, but not always the dealer would look to settle the matter before going to court.  It is a lot easier and a lot more friendly for everyone if they do.   They stand to lose court costs, some out of pockets, reputation if aspects are made public, plus the cost of repair if they lose the case and the claim is proven. 

 

Some less reputable dealers look to declare themelves or their thinly capitalised company bankrupt to avoid settling on large repair bills.

 

Taking on VAG, for faulty engineering and lack of recall is, unfortunately, a whole different ball game and one which would be much more difficult to succeed in and which could require significant financial resources which is why it has not been done.

Edited 20 June, 2017 by TheClient

[The1stlegend]

Yeah I'm beginning to think I'm on my own for this one. They say they don't have records but i know the mechanic that came out must have records so will try and get a copy if necessary.

 

Hopefully the selling dealer will offer something but the service department do seem to be less and less willing to talk. They originally admitted that they remember how i kept enquiring about the chain tensioner so they can't act dumb about that at least.

 

3 hours ago, TheClient said:

VAG won't admit it, they have some TPI issued that indicates an "issue" though. Your action would not be against VAG. Your obvious remedy is consumer law based which means the selling dealer.  Your compensation won't be punitive or cover anyone other than yourself. It would be the cost of repair and perhaps some relevant incidentals, and you would need to prove the claim in court (unless the selling dealer settles and fixes the car before hand). 

 

You would get your own report from a recognised engineer to say the part was intended to be a for life part, requiring no maintenance, that failed prematurely and caused destruction of the engine...

 

There will be plenty of people who have threatened the selling dealer with proceedings for a faulty VAG used car before. Some, dare I say would of involved tensioner failures on EA888 series engines. Usually, but not always the dealer would look to settle the matter before going to court.  It is a lot easier and a lot more friendly for everyone if they do.   They stand to lose court costs, some out of pockets, reputation if aspects are made public, plus the cost of repair if they lose the case and the claim is proven. 

 

Some less reputable dealers look to declare themelves or their thinly capitalised company bankrupt to avoid settling on large repair bills.

 

Taking on VAG, for faulty engineering and lack of recall is, unfortunately, a whole different ball game and one which would be much more difficult to succeed in and which could require significant financial resources which is why it has not been done.

 

You certainly seem to know your stuff! Does seem like a consumer law case. Is the TPI 'issue' easy to find if i need it? 

 

Not sure who a recognised engineer would be to write such a report unless the service department from the seller will do that. If that would count? 

 

I think this might lead to threatening legal action and going to court and hopefully that will be enough to make them accept the cost. I hope they're a reputable dealership as there are quite a few auto devotions about.

 

Its a shame the real culprits are too high and dry to get any implications from this! Need another scandal like the emissions lol

[singh946]

Sad to read about your experience :(
Hopefully everything goes in your direction. 

 

In the meantime research about your rights and may be advisable to take legal advice while your car is getting looked into. 

[The1stlegend]

Should find out the costs today so will update when i know. I think i have a pretty strong case in a small claims court if it comes to it but does anyone know where i can find a copy of the TPI that states there's an 'issue' with the tensioner? Can't find it anywhere!

[TheClient]

There are a number of TPIs around. I'm not sure if they are differentiated on Engine #, VIN or manufacture date but they all say much the same thing. See links in 23 March Post by Rayx. 

 

 

There will be car engineer firms that specialise in warranty / manufacturer engine fault claim investigation. This thread suggests someone used around Birmingham area. I have no idea how reputable or how much they cost. You could pm the OP. His problem appeared quite rare - relative to tensioner problems and appeared not to relate to a timing problem based on the info he posted. But the fact that they are able to inspect and write a credible report is relevant. You need to be assured of that whomever you choose.  That is assuming your selling dealer doesn't agree to meet the repair.

 

The other option, to get a report, I suppose is to use an experienced and trusted independent garage and get them to photograph and report on the damage and likely cause.  However, if they are engaged for repairs, the court may question their Independence. You may need to seek advice on what way to go.  

 

If the dealer starts work and removes / discards parts it will be impossible for you to get a meaningful fault inspection report done so you need to consider what to do at the outset. A firm specialising in this sort of work presumably would have suggestions of how to approach and likely want to be present at initial strip down....

 

 

[The1stlegend]

Still not heard from skoda yet but they're looking today apparently. I've called P.J.Kerley which were the breakdown service i have with the auto protect warranty and they've given me a copy of what happened on the sunday when my car was towed. They claim to have not found any other documentation, so the important part on Saturday where the mechanic said it was ok to drive is something i can't prove. Except for the photo i took of the diagnosis screen listing all the fault codes.

Edited 22 June, 2017 by The1stlegend

[The1stlegend]

Still haven't heard from skoda, this isn't going well. Will have to chase them up. Also managed to get a copy of the breakdown report from saturday where i was told the car will be safe to drive. They have covered themselves by having this statement on the report though: 

"I am aware that only a temporary repair has been
carried out and is only for the continuation of the
current journey after which a full repair must be
effected."

 

That wasn't quite what i was told in person.

[The1stlegend]

Still nothing from skoda even though i went to the dealership yesterday after work. When i went in they confirmed it was the chain tensioner that had failed so it will be a new engine. Not sure how my warranty will take that news but the main dealership only fit new engines apparently? 

 

I made them aware i know my rights and that i have plenty of evidence backing my case, also found on honest john that the chains were poorly manufactured from new with burrs on them so weren't fit for purpose, haven't seen anyone mention that on here yet.

 

I also paid the deposit of £500 on credit card when i bought the car so if either 3 companies refuse to pay at least i have that option. The car is also registered as having a tfsi engine rather than tsi also and was advertised to me as being a tfsi so could also go down the not sold as advertised route

Edited 24 June, 2017 by The1stlegend

[TheClient]

It is becoming more difficult and troublesome as time goes on. As is often the case.

 

You need to keep focus on the main issue.  You have purchased a car with low Mileage 7 months or there abouts. A part has failed that is not supposed to. That mostly puts the selling dealer on the line.  You need to retain that focus. Alternative claims are worth thinking about when all else fails, but you have to pursue the most clear cut claim or you will get lost.

 

I'm afraid to say the TFSI or TSI delineation will get you no where. They both mean essentially the same things and are used interchangeably even on the same engines across different VAG marques. 

 

The mechanic call out is an annoyance and they "may" have made the situation worse but it is unproven that the next time you started up even on way to dealership the same thing wouldn't have happened. It was only the next day when it failed?  Sure, they don't seem to have appreciated what was going on anf if they didn't get you to sign a disclaimer and explain what they thought could end in a terminal problem they have been pretty pants, but it is a harder case to build edit: for what is essentially a failed for design life part.

 

Get the selling dealer to act, if in combination with Skoda UK goodwill so be it. It doesn't worry you who pays.

 

Keep focus, cool and calm at all times. Easier said than done, but essential.

Edited 24 June, 2017 by TheClient

[The1stlegend]

well i rang skoda again and the service guy still wouldn't answer so i said if he doesn't ring back then I'll need to speak to the manager. 5 minutes later i got a phone call from him saying it will cost £5145 for the new engine but tomorrow they should know how much of a goodwill gesture they can give. Then the dealership i bought the car from want to ring up my warranty and put the claim in themselves (guessing he knows what to say so that they pay for it) so i should find out tomorrow

[Rooted]

Skoda / VW providing free an engine to the Warranty Provider, after all known issues, known to VW Group because they built the engines with Fundamental Design, Manufacturing, materials / components / software & poor Quality Control and follow ups to the failings.

 

So just the same old, VW Group assuming the position with loads of kidology on a Dealership supposedly deciding the contribution.

[Sarge]

Please don't expect too much from Skoda uk. They'll only let you down. That is my experience anyway. And it may be worth doing clutch and flywheel at same time as engine. Adds to the cost now but cheaper in the long run if you're likely to keep the car. 

[Rooted]

Were you an individual dealing with Skoda UK / VW Group or did you have a Warranty and a Warranty Underwriter that the VW Group are not prepared to get into legal wrangles with?

ie Expert Engineers reports showing the Failure Rate of the engines being discussed!

 

?

Which Dealership Techs did you have on your side, or where they just sitting back and letting you have to splash the cash?

[Sarge]

I was an individual. Dealer liased with SUK and then I did but they just said that their goodwill policy now was perhaps to offer something on cars up to five years old but after that you were on your own and they wouldn't budge despite FSSH, a known problem and considerable brand loyalty from my family over many years. The dealer were fine - I know them from way back and I trust them to have done their bit. I didn't need the car back in hurry so that helped them keep labour charge down.

[Rooted]

Don't be shy then, which of Scotland's wonderful Motor Groups / Delears were fighting your corner, or not?

 

People do actually get sorted out properly because VW Groups errors even though 5 years has passed,

sadly too many assume the position and get shafted without lubrication.

 

All these lovely helpful Dealership employees, but see how they do when their own cars have issues, 

all the full backing and support of the Manufacturer, New engine, certainly sir / madam!

(Car was remapped / Tuning Box fitted, No Problemo....)

Edited 26 June, 2017 by Awayoffski

[TheClient]

5 hours ago, The1stlegend said:

well i rang skoda again and the service guy still wouldn't answer so i said if he doesn't ring back then I'll need to speak to the manager. 5 minutes later i got a phone call from him saying it will cost £5145 for the new engine but tomorrow they should know how much of a goodwill gesture they can give. Then the dealership i bought the car from want to ring up my warranty and put the claim in themselves (guessing he knows what to say so that they pay for it) so i should find out tomorrow

Well, I suppose you don't care, if, what they are confirming is that they will be fitting a new engine fitted by a Soda dealer with some supporting documentation to confirm as such the job has been completed. I.e. the job done properly as quoted / specified.  That is what can be difficult to control once you are in the hand of claim management of a third party warranty company having started the claim process. It complicates things in terms of control and transparency or can do. It does muddy the water a bit if it all goes pear shape part way through or at completion, as I am not sure how straight forward your come back would be to the dealer following a failed warranty repair claim.  

 

There must be policy limits and surely an excess which are going to be breached by this claim? How are they handling that?  But if the selling dealer, Skoda UK and the third party warranty provider are somehow, all coming together to get this sorted, that will be a result for you. There are quite a few gaps for things to get lost in between though, with three other parties plus yourself involved!

 

If this gets totally resolved, with a new engine and at no cost to you, you should buy a lottery ticket, maybe even one for me as my luck rarely follows that trajectory..

 

Edited 26 June, 2017 by TheClient

[The1stlegend]

12 hours ago, TheClient said:

Well, I suppose you don't care, if, what they are confirming is that they will be fitting a new engine fitted by a Soda dealer with some supporting documentation to confirm as such the job has been completed. I.e. the job done properly as quoted / specified.  That is what can be difficult to control once you are in the hand of claim management of a third party warranty company having started the claim process. It complicates things in terms of control and transparency or can do. It does muddy the water a bit if it all goes pear shape part way through or at completion, as I am not sure how straight forward your come back would be to the dealer following a failed warranty repair claim.  

 

There must be policy limits and surely an excess which are going to be breached by this claim? How are they handling that?  But if the selling dealer, Skoda UK and the third party warranty provider are somehow, all coming together to get this sorted, that will be a result for you. There are quite a few gaps for things to get lost in between though, with three other parties plus yourself involved!

 

If this gets totally resolved, with a new engine and at no cost to you, you should buy a lottery ticket, maybe even one for me as my luck rarely follows that trajectory..

 

Yeah i don't really care, im hoping the documentation will be ok if skoda themselves will carry out the work? I've already stated that i want the latest edition chain/tensioner fitted to the engine and they agreed it will have. I'll try to get that in writing too lol. If the actual work is carried out by skoda uk then i assume i would be covered if any faults occur with it because it was installed by the main dealer!

 

The policy limit for my warranty is the same as the cost of the car was to buy (£8290) so in theory they could pay the full whack but obviously wont want to! Warranty will only pay £60 labour an hour though, Skoda are £90 an hour so i might have to pay the difference. I'll try my luck and see if the dealership i purchased it from will pay the difference though lol. I'm hoping it all goes smoothly! 

 

Haha I'm not a lucky man! Had the engine fail, gf left me and also had to cancel my holiday all in the space of a week! They sat it comes in threes lol. Fingers crossed the dealership know how to get the warranty to pay for it though!

[The1stlegend]

No goodwill from Skoda! Auto Devotion are hoping the 2 year warranty from Auto protect will pay for it i think. Auto protect want to send someone out to verify that it does need a new engine so not sure how long that will take. Now talking to CAB and they seem to think that i shouldn't have to pay anything and should be sorted within a reasonable time under the consumer rights act 2015. Mentioned this to skoda and auto devotion but i will continue taking legal action until they get back to me

[TheClient]

Unsurprising about Skoda. They have slopey shoulders as reported elsewhere and earlier in this thread.  They'll do what ever they can to avoid paying, especially when a car is 8 years, may not have their servicing, any reason they can think etc. etc.

 

As discussed before, your clearest contractual relationship for the consumer rights act is the dealer who sold to you.  There wouldn't be an action you could take against Skoda UK under the Consumer Rights Act. You have no contract with them and never had one for this vehicle AFAIR circumstances here. 

 

I'd keep focus on the area where you have the clearest and most enforceable rights.

 

I'd start getting some things down in writing when knowledge is fresh, events can be recalled and I'd send a letter to the dealer spelling out succinctly what has happened factually, so far and your belief that they have responsibility to repair the car.  You may have to indicate that, you are following their request at the present time to submit a warranty claim, but should this fail or there be any balance remaining after warranty contribution, you will expect them to cover the repair costs or any shortfall.

 

Also, if it starts getting difficult, your going to need to consider evidence requirement for making a court claim i.e. a report on the fault and whether that would be required and what would be required, as the vehicle is over 6 months since your purchase. 

 

[The1stlegend]

On 29/06/2017 at 13:59, TheClient said:

Unsurprising about Skoda. They have slopey shoulders as reported elsewhere and earlier in this thread.  They'll do what ever they can to avoid paying, especially when a car is 8 years, may not have their servicing, any reason they can think etc. etc.

 

As discussed before, your clearest contractual relationship for the consumer rights act is the dealer who sold to you.  There wouldn't be an action you could take against Skoda UK under the Consumer Rights Act. You have no contract with them and never had one for this vehicle AFAIR circumstances here. 

 

I'd keep focus on the area where you have the clearest and most enforceable rights.

 

I'd start getting some things down in writing when knowledge is fresh, events can be recalled and I'd send a letter to the dealer spelling out succinctly what has happened factually, so far and your belief that they have responsibility to repair the car.  You may have to indicate that, you are following their request at the present time to submit a warranty claim, but should this fail or there be any balance remaining after warranty contribution, you will expect them to cover the repair costs or any shortfall.

 

Also, if it starts getting difficult, your going to need to consider evidence requirement for making a court claim i.e. a report on the fault and whether that would be required and what would be required, as the vehicle is over 6 months since your purchase. 

 

Yep Skoda are useless. Turns out full service history means nothing so dealerships shouldn't bother selling cars boasting about FSH! Because it was serviced at a different skoda garage and not at the Robinsons skoda garage it is now, they can't offer a goodwill gesture. Never heard so much bull**** in all my life! I'll have to contact skoda uk myself because i can tell robinsons skoda don't give a ****.

 

I will focus on auto devotion after seeing if skoda uk will offer anything.

 

I've started recording conversations when going into the dealerships so that i don't forget anything and also recorded my meeting with the citizens advice bureau, they believe i have a strong case against them.

 

I've acquired evidence mostly online and the TPI's you linked me to. Also have a friend in the industry that has found the fault on their system that is linked to most other garages showing that it's a known issue.

 

Skoda rang today to confirm the independent checker for my warranty has been in to take photos etc and ahould get back to them soon. Still can't imagine they will pay for it all.

 

I've logged everything that has happened and made a letter ready to send to watchdog and the local newspapers about the situation as most companies don't like bad publicity.

 

I added this on the sticky thread but I'll add it here too 

USA are making a law suit against VAG for the chain tensioner issue, i contacted them via live chat and they seem to think they might be able to help. I guess all the evidence they can get, the better their chances:

http://www.seegerweiss.com/vw-audi-timing-chain-tensioner-system

 

Also here's a link to the 2012 Auto Bild interview with VW seniors where they admit there's an issue with the chains/tensioners: http://www.autobild.de/artikel/vw-tsi-motorschaeden-3393757.html

Edited 5 July, 2017 by The1stlegend

[The1stlegend]

Rang skoda uk and they don't care about anything over 5 years old

[Sarge]

Well, at least they're being consistent! That's what I was told by them too. Poor show. 

[The1stlegend]

Contacted the ombudsman and they said robinsons group are not part of the motor ombudsman code of practice so they cannot help. So i guess my only option is a small claims court now? Unless warranty still magically pay for it.

Edited 6 July, 2017 by The1stlegend

[m0bov]

Might be worth contacting your credit card provider. I was in the same boat as you about 3 years ago, lucky I got the engine for free when the (skoda) extended warranty company told me it was an inherent fault and so would not cover it. I told Skoda this and then suddenly got a call from Skoda to offer me a FOC engine. The lady wouldn't say who she was.

 

Skoda knew about it back then, but they will never admit it. You will need to get it repaired, then claim the cost back via small claims court.

 

[The1stlegend]

14 hours ago, m0bov said:

Might be worth contacting your credit card provider. I was in the same boat as you about 3 years ago, lucky I got the engine for free when the (skoda) extended warranty company told me it was an inherent fault and so would not cover it. I told Skoda this and then suddenly got a call from Skoda to offer me a FOC engine. The lady wouldn't say who she was.

 

Skoda knew about it back then, but they will never admit it. You will need to get it repaired, then claim the cost back via small claims court.

 

I contacted my credit card dealer about a week ago so i think they should get back to me today. How old was your car 3 years ago? Was it over the 5 years old rule? Funny how one say its an inherent fault and the other pretends to not know about it!

 

That's the annoying thing when contacting skoda, you just know they're lying to your face. I was hoping i wouldn't need to go to court over it but its looking more and more likely.