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Where do you fill up? Supermarket fuel vs Brand name premium


Eyesee

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Just read about this in the manual. Danger of overfill essentially and assuming long term damage to tank?

 

Yes, PLEASE take care not to overfill your diesel tanks!!

I've already lost several friends and one of my own vehicles to inconsiderate ****'s diesel spillages and the next bike that goes spinning off on a huge great swathe of diesel could end up going through your windscreen... 

Thanks.

 

Seems as if there's no definitive answers, or at least anything proven over premium v non branded diesel. Unless anyone can suggest any hard evidence that couldn't be passed off as a placebo effect?

 

I can suggest a few anecdotal ones...

 

My own vehicles always get the absolute best and never from a supermarket.

I use this mainly because I have old carburetted conveyances and the premium fuels don't destroy the rubbers. But I also track the mpg and every vehicle I've had runs better, performs better and returns notably better economy (a good 10mpg) over just a few refils.

 

One friend of mine is a Trading Standards enforcement officer. They regularly inspect fuel stations, mainly to test the measures of the pumps but they also look at the quality of the fuel. A number of stations, almost always independents or those attached to supermarkets, have been prosecuted for illegal diesels, 'watering down' the fuel with other ingredients and obviously fixing the pumps.

I don't use supermarkets if ever I have the choice... They're also usually not as cheap as Shell or BP, round here.

 

Lastly, I help out another friend who has been a mechanic for about 30 years (depending on whether he's lying about his age today).

He'd prefer it if you used the cheap stuff because it means your car wears out quicker and he gets to charge you more money more often for fixing it... but he and anyone who listens to him will use the good stuff.

 

So in general, aside from the above, I'd say you get notably cleaner and better running, longer run time and measurable (but not earth-shattering) improvements to economy.

It's not a massive difference, but you will still be glad of it.

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Firstly, thanks to all for your options. I know we all want our cars to run and perform as best they can without compromising any long term effects. My company vehicle, an Astra, sounds like a tractor compared to my newly acquired Octavia and it's been ran on only Asda special brew in the 2 years I've had it.

The Octavia sounds much quieter but I'm not sure if this is down to the refinement of Skoda vs Vauxhall Diesel engines or if the car has been ran on branded fuel.

I'm not saying this is the only cause, but part of it is definitely down to the company car being a (dis)Astra! ;) I would say that, but then I honestly did once have a company Vauxhall that was badged as a "D Merit".

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Mine has pretty much always ran on Shell V-Power Nitro+ under my ownership, the N47 2.0 derv unit is not the most refined engine in the world but I've notcied the engine smoothen up and have much less gearstick rattle and the miles were put on with the better quality fuel.

 

People tell me it's a waste of money/placebo..blah blah blah. At the end of the day, my car is one of my passions/hobbies, so as part of that i'm happy to spend the extra pennies per litre.

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Re post # 27

If anyone is taken to court there will be reporting of the cases.  If not some deal penalty behind closed door with the HMRC.

 

PLEASE SOMEONE THAT CAN FIND LINKS TO COURT PROCEEDINGS IN THE UK FOR FUEL FRAUD AND UNDER MEASURES OR FUELS NOT MEETING THE STANDARDS PLEASE LINK THAT.

Not the use of Red Diesel etc or other such but Branded Filling Stations or Independents with basterdised fuel and tax evasion and theft from the HMRC / Treasury and customers 

by undermeasures or fuel not meeting the Octane or Centane minimum numbers.

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Always the cheapest. Supermarket fuel does not come from dark back alley refineries but the same ones that supply the "Brands". I am not academic or racey enough to notice much of a the difference, but I have been jotting down the fuel consumption of all the family vehicle when I fill up. A rise in consumption  - at least to me - has thrown up problem that could then be sorted quickly like a clogges up air filter or on old carbs a requirement for adjusting  before the regular service interval. I have not noticed any more wear and tear in any car. Engines, turbos and DPFs get damaged by wrong oil or more likly too little oil and forgotten oil changes.

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Re post # 27

If anyone is taken to court there will be reporting of the cases.  If not some deal penalty behind closed door with the HMRC.

 

PLEASE SOMEONE THAT CAN FIND LINKS TO COURT PROCEEDINGS IN THE UK FOR FUEL FRAUD AND UNDER MEASURES OR FUELS NOT MEETING THE STANDARDS PLEASE LINK THAT.

Not the use of Red Diesel etc or other such but Branded Filling Stations or Independents with basterdised fuel and tax evasion and theft from the HMRC / Treasury and customers 

by undermeasures or fuel not meeting the Octane or Centane minimum numbers.

 

From what I recall of it, most offenders were merely fined rather than going through big court cases, but it would have been against the individuals who operate a franchise, rather than brand name franchisors. Undermeasures were usually either from worn valves that continued to push fuel through after the lever was released, or from software that rounded up values and so overcharged by a few pence. Fines typically were around £5k.

Local Trading Standards websites do sometimes publish reports for a short time, for illustrative purposes. You'll probably have to wade through lots of reports on Tesco's misleading price indications!

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I thought you were talking Adulterated Fuels sold from pumps at filling stations not just under measures!

Fines are given by Courts,  

Penalties by HMRC & the Trading Standards do not issue 'Fines'.  

 

I think you had best go back and speak to your 'Insider'.  He / She might remember the old days of a sixpence in the bottom of spirit measures on the gantry of Public Houses..

I too have mates in Trading Standards & HMRC and one who is a Pump Engineer near to retiring after having been in the industry all his working life..

Edited by Offski
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I was including Adulterated Fuels sold from pumps at filling stations, as well as fuel fraud and undermeasures. all of which you asked about.

 

Fines are given by courts, yes, but TS are the inspecting and prosecuting agency who actually take someone to court for prosecution, yes?

 

Very well - I shall speak to my "Insider", although I prefer the term 'friend', myself, although I don't believe they still used sixpences back in 2001-2008 so much... or, if you prefer, you can speak to him and tell him his job? I'm sure he'd love to hear from someone who knows more than him.

 

Perhaps you can speak to your own mates, see if they will dig out the records for you?

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If adulterated fuels being sold and under measures are being dealt with secretly in the UK as the public and the treasury are being defrauded of Taxes & Duty then 

there is something far wrong with agencies and departments like HMRC & Trading Standards and the DfT / DVSA have lots to answer for.

 

I have looked for Court Cases in England & Wales & in Scotland being reported in the media but not finding any.

There are the cases of 'Errors' of stocking Filling Station tanks, but if any Wholesaler or Retailer in the UK is diluting fuels that really is a scandal.

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Guest DobriKnotzGutenMorgan

If....anyone could not give two worthers originals then carry on.............me personally as an ex Ford Mondeo driver particuarly of deisels. It musy always be the only two safest forecourt suppliers..BP first and Shell second. If your parnicjity about your car and various performance and much less money spent at the garage, do use the only two. I speak of personal experience, brilliant knowledge from Ford Forum and personal info from tanker drivers themselves. I can honstley after buying second hand cars and fooking about with the inherent issues. Once I used the said companies and correct service parts then no issues at all. 

I now have my Octavia and no issues....of course a tin of BG every six months might help but not needed if you drive good or Archoil Products as a maintenance wiich they are brilliant.

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If adulterated fuels being sold and under measures are being dealt with secretly in the UK as the public and the treasury are being defrauded of Taxes & Duty then 

there is something far wrong with agencies and departments like HMRC & Trading Standards and the DfT / DVSA have lots to answer for.

 

I have looked for Court Cases in England & Wales & in Scotland being reported in the media but not finding any.

There are the cases of 'Errors' of stocking Filling Station tanks, but if any Wholesaler or Retailer in the UK is diluting fuels that really is a scandal.

 

So if it's not a court case reported in the media, it never happened, right?

As mentioned earlier, it was typically individuals running single stations rather than a massive company-wide scam at every single pump. Nothing "secret", so much as not especially newsworthy, but feel free to carry on with the conspiracy theory...

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Even small Independents have hundreds of customers so maybe not National News but of considerable importance locally. 

If no Local Journalist was reporting it in the UK then that is highly unusual.

 

So if you know of where these Independents were selling Hooky Fuels feel free to give the area.

Or just keep adding to Urban & Internet myths from 'I know a man that told me a story'. 

 

Like the many internet stories from Fuel Tanker drivers, especially in Scotland. (Only occasionally ever from an actual driver.)

They know exactly which Depots they fill their tankers at and where they deliver to and what Fuel goes in and what Additive Packages / Detergents.

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I daresay it was reported locally, but since I didn't even drive back then it was of very limited interest. I only cared what my friend was doing for a living and that going to give evidence in court sounded really important.
Not so much about telling a story as knowing a man who actually was the prosecution in several cases.

Area - London Borough of Brent and Harrow, though I know other TS services had similar initiatives at the time. It was of particular concern when we had a fuel crisis, so either 2000 or maybe 2005, as cheap/knock-off fuels were being sought and stations were regularly checked to make sure they weren't doctoring fuel/pumps/measures... Seemingly a few did try to chance it.

The more amazing part is that most offences first get written warning notices issued, with only repeat offenders being taken to court!

These days greater anti-tamper methods are in place and, unless there's some kind of backhander going on, station staff do not have the opportunity to get involved in the tank filling. But this is still quite a recent development and some remote independent stations do still have quite outdated fittings.

 

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Good stuff thanks.

 

Like fuel from Royal Dutch Shell surely a huge multi-national that can be trusted to get it right, like VW Group you can trust them with your mortgage.

(Unless you are one of those that ended up with a wrecked engine back last Century or even this.)

What were their scientists smoking back then, or were they sniffing lighter fuel.

http://royaldutchshellplc.com/2015/06/04/shell-v-power-nitro-ignites-memories-of-past-shell-wonder-fuel-debacles

 

http://platts.com/latest-news/oil/london/uk-still-buying-winter-gasoline-as-european-refiners-8114744

At least now in the UK you know the fuel you buy meets at least Minimum Standards and sometimes exceeds them when the good stuff gets into the UK.

Obviously fuel comes in  from all around the world as not many Refineries left in the UK.

Grangemouth does have a cracking plant and does supply lots of Fuels for Scotland and the North of England.

Edited by Offski
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I do around 600 miles per week, probably 95% of that is motorway mileage and I buy fuel from wherever is cheapest either near my house or where I work so the car has had a mixture of supermarket and branded diesel.

 

My car returns roughly the same MPG each day (within 2-3MPG) which I put down to traffic or weather conditions that day. So IMHO there is no difference in the fuel, certainly not relating to economy anyway...

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When I had an Octy TFSI it was made to use super unleaded and I could definitely tell the difference between unleaded and super unleaded. Now on my 3rd diesel car since then and I've not noticed any difference between branded diesel and supermarket diesel. 

 

Never tried super diesel. I've never read anything to convince me that is worth the money.

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14 hours ago, Aspman said:

When I had an Octy TFSI it was made to use super unleaded and I could definitely tell the difference between unleaded and super unleaded. Now on my 3rd diesel car since then and I've not noticed any difference between branded diesel and supermarket diesel. 

 

Never tried super diesel. I've never read anything to convince me that is worth the money.

There is no benefit to using "super diesel"; if anything the reverse is true with lower citane indices giving better specific power.

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^^^ Bit of a sweeping statement.

There are modern performance based diesels that do benefit from higher cetane obviously, 

Derv does its job in dirty diesels but there are benefits for some in 'Premium Diesel', as an example 'Aspman's vehicle.

It will run perfectly on any old diesel day to day but he might find the benefit of the premium diesel if he decided to take a trip where the NSL is not 60mph (70) some roads.

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1 hour ago, Offski said:

^^^ Bit of a sweeping statement.

There are modern performance based diesels that do benefit from higher cetane obviously, 

Derv does its job in dirty diesels but there are benefits for some in 'Premium Diesel', as an example 'Aspman's vehicle.

It will run perfectly on any old diesel day to day but he might find the benefit of the premium diesel if he decided to take a trip where the NSL is not 60mph (70) some roads.

 

Quick search through the Bimmer forums and it seems very like every premium Vs supermarket fuel discussion ever had. Some people swear by it, some notice no difference, some buy it just in case it's better in the long run.

 

I think no one knows really.

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You are well placed to see how things are.

A month of getting used to the car, regular travel route etc using the diesel you do, then maybe go a month with Premium Diesel.

Obviously a bit of variety of weather for the next couple of months & then Winter Diesel not in the Station Tanks April'sh time.

 

Let us know how it goes if you can be bothered trying it.

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Super Unleaded sure, but Super EN590... na it's cool I'll just go with the normal stuff.

 

I think supermarket derv got a bad reputation when sainsbury's went ULS derv before anyone else and people started to lose fuel pumps etc, which until then had relied on the sulphur to lubricate them.

 

Will you find problems with supermarkets, sure, will you find problems elsewhere, sure.

 

 

To be honest if you're saving 5-10p per litre (Yes that's correct around here) by going to the supermarket, then I'd say you'd be better off doing that and changing the fuel filter every major service (18.5k-20k miles) and getting the water out of the filter housing.

I could be wrong, but a dirty fuel filter doesn't help anyone.

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  • 3 months later...

Unconvinced I recently did a test and ran the vehicle over 1000 miles using BP Ultimate Diesel. First thing I noticed was it ran smoother and there was an improvement in fuel consumption compared with supermarket diesel fuel. Not enough to warrant the price difference though. Given premium fuel is about 11-13% more expensive, I could only get a 5.5 - 6.5% improvement in fuel consumption. Question therefore is it worth it ? Depends on whether you subscribe to the theory that premium fuel is better for your engine overall and cleans the engine and fuel systems I guess. The other thing I noticed though was that using the premium diesel I was getting inaccurate readings on the ave. consumption computer. It said I was achieving >70 mpg but the reality was not much above 54mpg (supermarket diesel was giving me around 50/51 mpg over 3 yrs). Readings from the computer were more accurate using supermarket fuel. 

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