DSG v TORQUE CONVERTER

[Kered]

Being a prospective Kodiaq owner I have always had torque converter transmissions and wondered what essential difference I will find with the DSG 'box?

[Rooted]

Welcome.

Not much really other than you can maybe have more choices of using the DSG manually if you want as it is an automated manual

or just allow it to be an automatic.

[BoxerBoy]

A slush box will creep along more easily in traffic, while a DSG thinks differently with it's 2 real clutches doing their thing.

A DSG clutch can drag at tickover, depending on which one you have. 6 speed. 7 speed. Dry clutch. Wet clutch.

 

A DSG is fantastic with paddle shifters as no matter what "mode" you're in you can flip 2 or 3 gears in a heartbeat to do what you have to do.

 

Go get one.

[Culverden]

I wasn't planning to select the paddle shifters with the DSG box. Are they worth having and when would you typically use them? I'm used to using a standard auto box on my current vehicle. It has paddle shifters but I never use them. 

[Mr Grump]

TBH I rarely use my paddle shifters as the box is pretty good at doing its job, I use them for fun occasionally.

They are a nice convenience, but you can still do it manually with the "gearstick" if you desire.

The only thing I do different to an auto 'box is put it in neutral if I am waiting at lights etc for more than a few seconds. This may not be necessary, but as there are clutch plates it makes me feel better to do so.

[Rooted]

The new Kodiaq with DSG should have the Holy Trinity. or is it maybe the Three Musketeers.

So 'Auto Hold',

the 'Electric Brake',

& Stop / Start,

then 'Coasting Function ' (that will be d'Artagnan)

 

So no longer any need to put in 'N' / Neutral.

Edited 13 March, 2017 by Awayoffski

[Mr Grump]

Well, TBH I turn off stop start as soon as I get in because I don't like it 

[ZacDaMan72]

The only VAG* DSG's I've driven are the Audi ones in the RS4 and RS5 so I'm not sure how it's like in a car like the Kodiaq. Perhaps I should test drive a Tiguan.

Edited 13 March, 2017 by ZacDaMan72

[Rooted]

You should.

They all do the same thing just it can happen faster in a RS4 / 5.

2 pedals like with a Kart you hire at the track. Fast / loud pedal and a slowing down one.

Press the brake and move the stick and press the go pedal, and move the stick more if you want or the paddles.

 

Nothing much different from a traditional automatic or an automatic with paddles like a Subaru BRZ / MINI Cooper S.

Point and go.

You either like them or not.

[sublime]

On 3/13/2017 at 08:58, Mr Grump said:

The only thing I do different to an auto 'box is put it in neutral if I am waiting at lights etc for more than a few seconds. This may not be necessary, but as there are clutch plates it makes me feel better to do so.

Actually the trick of "saving the clutch" at DSG is a proper force applied to a brakes when stopped. 
If the force applied to brake is to small, or you are using this gearbox in style of driving hydro-transformer (by slowly moving with a light foot applied to brake) the clutch is slipping and life time gets shorter. 
Just push the pedal stronger (no need to do "pedal to the metal") and braking sensor will give the signal to DSG to completely disengage clutch. In this case no shifting to Neutral will be required.

Edited 13 May, 2017 by sublime

[Rooted]

Do you really think you need to save the Clutch Packs that way?

No shifting to 'N' is required with 'Auto Hold' Stop / start or the Electric Handbrake.

Your Wet Clutch DSG is not wearing however you choose to drive it.

Edited 13 May, 2017 by Awayoffski

[BoxerBoy]

I'm finding the auto hold brake is a huge leap forward in driver convenience. Come to a stop. No drag whatsover. No blinding brake lights. Press the go pedal to go. I'm loving it.

 

Yesterday I enjoyed a spirited solo jaunt and made much use of Sports mode, overridden with the paddles on many occasions. Had a few full bore overtakes on A roads with the paddles instantly dropping 3 gears or so to burst past slower vehicles. I'd recommend paddles every time. Who wants to be groping for a non-intuitive lever shifter when you can keep your hands on the wheels with paddles.

 

I'm watching F1 now and if paddles are good enough for Lewis & co. then they're good enough for me :-)

[sublime]

6 hours ago, BoxerBoy said:

Yesterday I enjoyed a spirited solo jaunt and made much use of Sports mode, overridden with the paddles on many occasions. Had a few full bore overtakes on A roads with the paddles instantly dropping 3 gears or so to burst past slower vehicles. I'd recommend paddles every time. Who wants to be groping for a non-intuitive lever shifter when you can keep your hands on the wheels with paddles.

I'm watching F1 now and if paddles are good enough for Lewis & co. then they're good enough for me :-)

That was one thing, witch made me irritated on a test car, those f***ing paddles where in a way for my usual grip. Annoying ****, specially when you know, that you are driving not and AMG, or M-power, but an diesel SUV. 
The kickdown downshifts up to 3 gears as well, so not much of use of those paddles. And yes, it is funny, when somebody starts talking about F1. But as long as you enjoy it, it means you made a right choice.

[Rooted]

?

Do you not have your New Kodiaq yet so advising on how to drive a DSG from a test drive experience and some research or have you had a 6 or 7 speed wet clutch DSG in another vehicle?

 

IMO the paddles are so useful because of the 'coasting function' and i use them with diesel TDI's to decelerate without going onto the brakes, where i never do with a petrol with DSG just using the stick to shift down and knocked back to 'D' for upshifts.

Edited 15 May, 2017 by Awayoffski

[sublime]

11 hours ago, Awayoffski said:

?

Do you not have your New Kodiaq yet so advising on how to drive a DSG from a test drive experience and some research or have you had a 6 or 7 speed wet clutch DSG in another vehicle?

 

IMO the paddles are so useful because of the 'coasting function' and i use them with diesel TDI's to decelerate without going onto the brakes, where i never do with a petrol with DSG just using the stick to shift down and knocked back to 'D' for upshifts.

That test drive formed my opinion on spending 46 thousands Euros on a car I loved. It is completely fair to share likes and dislikes about the thing. 
I've stuffed mine almost full, except panoramic sunroof, 19th rims, heated windshield (as an auxiliary pre-heater is installed) and the paddles, which I found excessive money spending. Once again, we are driving different kinds of roads, you have a lot of hills, turns, etc. That's why for you both hands on steering wheel and in-time down shifting is so important.
An again kickdown works through out all of the driving modes including ECO and when using "coasting function". 
I'm happy for everyone who finds this paddles useful as only in this case it would make sense! Enjoy your experience and your cars!

[Phil-E]

I went the other way. The things I noticed were the difference in the feel off the drivetrain. The DSG always feels connected and a direct drive whereas a torque converter can often be unlocked and slipping.

 

Depending on your driving style etc you may have to re-learn things like not holding the car on a hill using the throttle. ALWAYS hold it with the foot brake (or auto hold handrbake) when not moving. If you don't do this the clutches can suddenly overheat and they will disengage to protect them and you will roll back! Same can happen when maneuvering on a steep drive for instance.

[Rooted]

?Has this been known to happen with the new 7 speed wet clutch DSG or even the previous 6 speed DSG?

[bigboss]

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5989734-How-to-Play-The-DSG-Game-and-Win-DSG-Driving-Tips-and-Tricks#/topics/5989734

[Phil-E]

It happened on my 6 speed DSG. Had just had an hour's drive so everything up to temp.

 

Then reversed up the steep drive at my dad's house. It's tricky as it's very short and not much room behind the car. I had the car holding itself on tickover and went to apply more gas. The clutch was slipping then suddenly it just released and the car rolled forward as if in neutral!

[Rooted]

Nice story and a warning.

Some details would be good, car, engine, age and then how relevant to the new 7 speed wet clutch DSG might be clear.

There are some that seem to make driving a DSG seem to sound like patting their head and rubbing their tummy where really it is as simple as driving a dodgem.

 

As to the links with letting a DSG's oil warm up etc, letting the oil in the engine get to temp is recommended often as to a DSG they work pretty well straight 

off at UK / European type temperatures and altitudes, and in extreme cold weather common sense needs to be applied.

[Phil-E]

It was a 2007 Octavia 1.9.

 

I'm pretty sure all DSG are programmed in the same way. If the clutches get too warm they will either completely disengage or I've also experienced a situation where they stopped slipping.

 

Driving out of London once (yeah, I know, big mistake to drive into london!). It was 30C+ outside, 2 hours of stop-start traffic and with the A/C running. The car was very hot with the fans running at full blast. I noticed suddenly that the DSG was behaving differently. Quite abrupt at setting off and no more slipping to the clutch into 2nd that it usually does. It was engaging the gears very abruptly. I can only assume this was some kind of cool down process to minimize extra heat being produced.

 

Once we were out onto the motorway for a few minutes it returned to normal.

 

I know my Saab will suddenly start locking up the torque converter more should the gearbox oil temp get too high. Especially doing some 2nd gear launches as there's a lot of heat build up pushing all that oil around!

[marcusthehat]

Have VAG changed their wet 7 speed DSG transmissions, since with over 100,000 on a 2010 1.6TDI Octavia, they are NOT without their quirks.

Like ignoring incremental throttle input when manouvering on a slope, then dropping into neutral, without warning.

If the right foot is kept perfectly stationary on the throttle pedal, as the DSG selects Neutral(takes a bit of practise/concentration), and the car brought to a halt with the handbrake(2010 was still a traditional handbrake)

And the selector moved to N, without ever having altered ones throttle pedal foot position, the revs instantantly rise to 2000, 2250, and as much as 2500, as was demanded by the throttle pentiometer.

i.e. the DSG software overode the throttle pentiometer demand, holding tickover revs or perhaps only fractionally more, presumably to protect the clutch pack from slipping and overheating.

It took me a while to figure this out, but I can demonstrate it 24/7 if anyone is interested.

a pure software "glitch"

Very good to drive otherwise.

regards

marcus

Edited 18 May, 2017 by marcusthehat

[bigboss]

I believe it's the new one which was released in 2016:

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/news/amp31514/volkswagens-future-starts-with-the-2017-golf/

[marcusthehat]

Sketchy detail re the new DSG, but I surmise the 7 speed is now "wet", which should help.

Hard to believe it is prob 20 to 25 years ago since John Deere prefected this wet oil cooled clutch pack technology for tractors, in their 6000 series.

As in, even teenage/abusive/neglectful/stock farmers failed to "break" the automated clutch packs.

Which was quite some achievment