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1.0 TSI Engine


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Hi, I'm pretty new to the forum but I've had my 2010 Fabia Scout since the end of 2012.  Recently the check engine light, tyre pressure light, and traction control light all came on and the engine started feeling a bit off on partial throttle.  I took it to the main dealer and it turned out that the dreaded timing chain stretch had struck.  Luckily there doesn't seem to be any engine damage. 

 

I live in Norway so by law the business you bought it from has to take responsibility for the car for five years after you bought it.  I'm still within the 5 years (just) so I'm planning on making my case that the timing chain issue was known about before they sold it to me so they had a responsibility to let me know about it before I bought it.  The car has only done 45,000 km so I think I have a good case.  However, I'd rather try to make a deal with them to get a good trade in price on a new Fabia estate than go through the courts and I would imagine they would to.

 

I looked at the website to see what is available and the only TSi engine they list is the 1.2 4 cylinder.  I thought that the 1.0 TSI should have been available by now.  Has there been a delay or does it always take a while for new engines to make their way to the dealerships?

 

Is there any point in trying to get the price reduced on a 1.2 model or should I just wait until the 1.0 comes out?  I don't see there being that much difference in performance but I do see there being a difference in resale value when it comes time to trade it in in five years time.

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The 1.2 is a great engine, but it's being replaced (I think from the 2018 model year, which starts next month?) with the 1.0 TSI. If you want to get a feel of the engine, the Seat Ibiza is available with that engine, might be worth test driving one of them too. 

 

Of course, it all depends on what the dealership offers you! You could order a 1.0 TSI from the factory, and customise it with the right options for you etc whereas it might be tricky to find a 1.2 with those options (if, of course, you feel you need any options!).

 

 

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May be a daft question (i'm not very techy) but will the 1.0 engine be as good and perform as well as my 1.2 DSG? Will mpg be better? Just asking.

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The new 1.0 TSI is supposedly more efficient- when the Polo got the 1.0 TSI 110PS the official figures increased from being about 60 mpg to 65 mpg (dipping below the magic 100g CO2 in the process). Performance is slightly improved I believe, especially comparing the old 90PS 1.2 to the 95PS 1.0. 

 

I'm not convinced that real-world MPG will increase much though.

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I think the real world difference will probably be fairly minimal, like you said.  How do you know that the 2018 models will be available from next month?  I've been googling but haven't been able to find any information other than the engine was going to be revealed at the Geneva Motor Show.  I actually thought it was going to be available after Geneva which is why I thought I would be able to buy one immediately.

 

Did the other brands switching from the 1.2 to the 1.0 result in a price increase?  I would imagine that having a 1.2 will reduce the resale value in five years time since the 1.2 will be seen as the 'old' model.

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I have just bought the 1.2TSI 110ps DSG and it's gorgeous. Very powerful, very smooth (smoother than the new 1.0TSI which tends to vibrate more). I'm not at all worried about resale in a few years time as the 1.2 engine is tried and trusted, cambelt driven cams etc etc and so very quiet. If anything, you will most likely be able to do a better deal on the 1.2TSI engined car as they will be going anytime soon to make way for the new engined vehicles.

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Yeah, after my experience with my current 1.2 TSI I'd prefer to go for an engine that has had the kinks ironed out rather than go for the new one and find out that it has its own set of problems in a couple of years time.

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Ironed out issues with the 1.2TSI euro 5 eventually before the introduction of the Euro 6 1.2 TSI do not mean that much until more engines from 2014 prove to be sorted say after the 3 year warranties expire, some that had 2 year warranties have already learned that VW's engine building can be iffy..

There are reasons that VW are going to the 1.0TSI and that might well be real world or at least no EU test cheats to the extent that happened with 

VW,Audi,SEAT,Skoda 1.2TSI's.

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No brainer Bruce, the Mk3 1.2TSI has no intrinsic issues, tried and trusted. Lots of taxis with 180-200k on the clock in both Fabia's and Rapids, lots of reps cars too. All with high miles on. You can see them at auctions all the time being sold off after two or three years or so but with huge miles on them. Dealers report no intrinsic issues. My dealer has never had to strip one yet in three years and he sells loads of them. The only reason the 1.2 is being withdraw over here is due to Euro 7 which has moved the goal posts quite a bit from when the engine was first designed so it's living a shorter life over here, but may go on in other countries outside europe I understand. It's not just the VAG group that are having to retire some engines early either, many manufacturers are having to do the same. So you may see some very rushed engine jobs in the future from many manufacturers, but I suspect, not the 1.0TSI as it's already out there and performing very well. That's another good reason to stick with tried and tested technology in my book. 

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14 hours ago, Estate Man said:

I have just bought the 1.2TSI 110ps DSG and it's gorgeous. Very powerful, very smooth (smoother than the new 1.0TSI which tends to vibrate more). I'm not at all worried about resale in a few years time as the 1.2 engine is tried and trusted, cambelt driven cams etc etc and so very quiet. If anything, you will most likely be able to do a better deal on the 1.2TSI engined car as they will be going anytime soon to make way for the new engined vehicles.

In what way does it vibrate more please?

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I've not driven one, but it is a 3-cylinder engine which will surely make a difference! 

 

@BruceWee VW group normally change over between 'model years' in late May, which is (IIRC) build week 22. For example, last year the Fabia gained the optional rear view camera and ACC from that date, and the year before it gained Android Auto and Apple CarPlay as part of SmartLink. 

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Estateman,

Where are all these Euro 6 1.2TSI Engine Fabia or Rapids in the UK that have done 60,000 miles per year that are being advertised for sale or offered for auction?

I follow Auctions and sales and i have yet to see one that has done anything near that miles let alone plenty.

 

EDIT,

Apologies, i do see some high miles Rapids now over 100,000 miles since 2014.

Edited by Awayoffski
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5 hours ago, vc-10 said:

I've not driven one, but it is a 3-cylinder engine which will surely make a difference! 

 

@BruceWee VW group normally change over between 'model years' in late May, which is (IIRC) build week 22. For example, last year the Fabia gained the optional rear view camera and ACC from that date, and the year before it gained Android Auto and Apple CarPlay as part of SmartLink. 

 

The 1.0 EcoTSI 110 in my SEAT Ibiza FR doesn't vibrate... you can't even tell it's running when it's idling. 

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9 hours ago, RickW said:

In what way does it vibrate more please?

 

Drove the SEAT with the Eco 1.0TSI. Very good indeed...but noticeable it was a three cylinder motor due to it's slightly uneven tickover which produced some vibration. Not enough to be a problem of any kind, but it was there...and what I would expect from a 3 cylinder motor. On the move it was fine, but again you can tell it's a 3 cylinder motor especially at low revs. The 4 cylinder TSI's are intrinsically better balanced motors giving even smoother driving. Try one of the 3 cylinder units. They are very good though.

Edited by Estate Man
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2 hours ago, Awayoffski said:

Estateman,

Where are all these Euro 6 1.2TSI Engine Fabia or Rapids in the UK that have done 60,000 miles per year that are being advertised for sale or offered for auction?

I follow Auctions and sales and i have yet to see one that has done anything near that miles let alone plenty.

 

EDIT,

Apologies, i do see some high miles Rapids now over 100,000 miles since 2014.

 

I live 3 miles from one of the biggest auction houses in the country and they are starting to come through here more often now. It's the only way to get rid of very high mile cars with ease, especially if they are taxis. Lots of VW's too with this motor in and again, they are fit as a fiddle with 150,000+ miles on them, full service history etc etc. Best one I saw was a Fabia Mk3 2.5 years old with 140,000 miles on the clock. Perfect throughout with full service history. I spent some time before xmas looking at some ready for a project and was surprised just how good they were. Not just engines and tranny were good, but the interiors were wearing very well indeed, very robust and not shabby. I think we'll see a lot more this year come onto the market in this way as quite a few taxi firms have bought them as have companies. 

 

Bruce, this leads me to another point. If you notice, Ford quote an average life expectancy for their 1.0 ecoboost 3 cylinder engine of 130,000 miles. They have had quite a few problems with it but most are resolved now. It's is quite a stressed engine though if you look at the specs. It's a good one, but still a bit more stressed than I'd like to see if I had designed it. The VW groups 3 cylinder engine is less stressed, better built, and although I've not seen the longevity figures, it will definitely outlast the Ford unit. VW have made sure of that by designing it better and stressing it less. The 4 cylinder 1.2TSI unit is even less stressed, built great and will outlast all of them! 

 

 

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130k? That's not great IMO. My old Polo, now my brother's car, is on 163k. That's the old VAG 1.2 3-cyl, and it's an early car too for that engine (registered May 2002). I appreciate that 130k is an average, but does that take into account people writing them off with 20k on the clock and stuff like that? 

 

Of course, if it's brand-new on a lease it's not too much of an issue, but it's definitely something to be wary of if Ford are saying that it's only expected to last to that sort of mileage. 

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Another daft question :blush When my PCP is up in March 2019 will I be able to get a 4 cylinder DSG Fabia to replace mine? Don't like the idea of 3 cylinders to be honest,it's an off putter for me. Don't like the thought of more noise and vibration like some do.

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I actually got a call from my local dealer yesterday about the car they are building (which I bought on March 31st) and as it turns out there apparently no 1.2L Engines being built at all and the car I will receive will have the new 1.0L TSI. This also applies to both the engine types as I enquired about possibly upgrading to the 110 if it meant keeping the 1.2L but that has also been ceased. But I guess at least it will reduce my insurance cost I guess.

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I'm going to the dealership tomorrow so it will be interesting to hear if they even have any 1.2 engines.  And if they do hopefully I can persuade them to give me a nice discount for taking one off their hands :)

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Discued buying a new fabia with dealer today.

He said the order would be taken with the curent 1.2 engine spec but will be delivered with the new 1.0 eqivalent at the same price. Both equivalents slightly more powerful and economical.

New brochures and prices expected soon with new engine.

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1 hour ago, RickW said:

Another daft question :blush When my PCP is up in March 2019 will I be able to get a 4 cylinder DSG Fabia to replace mine? Don't like the idea of 3 cylinders to be honest,it's an off putter for me. Don't like the thought of more noise and vibration like some do.

 

Unless the introduce the new 1.5 TSI (probably with 150PS, basically an equivalent of the BlueGT model in the Polo) then no. All the petrols will be 1.0 3-cyls, and the diesels are currently all 1.4 3-cyls.

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There is a 1.0tsi thread in the Octavia mk3 section.

There are only a couple of submitters so far but both are very happy with the economy and power of the unit.

The user in Finland is returning remarkable figures in very adverse cold snowy conditions and cannot wait until more clement weather to see what it can really do.

Just saying that it appears that the "real world" economy on this unit appears to be real good.

I'm very happy with the consumption returns from my Octavia 1.4tsi but quite honestly he seems to be getting returns that I could only match by going 10 to 15 kph slower.

Bear in mind it is a very small sample though.

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