Stop/Start System

[Expatman]

Had my 1.2 Tsi SE-L DSG for 2 months and am not sure if I like the stop/start system. I find myself turning it off when I am in traffic as the continual stopping and starting hurts my engineering empathy. 

How do other drivers use the stop/start system - just let it get on with it or over ride and switch off? Does it really improve MPG in normal day-to-day driving?

[TeeDeeEye]

It's better than the system in my BMW but I still turn it off unless I'm in really bad traffic or jams where I know I won't be moving for at least a couple of minutes. Probably more beneficial to lower the mpg and emissions during government tests than for the average driver. 

[SurreyJohn]

Can live with it at traffic lights where you may be stopped for 30 seconds+

But it annoys me at roundabouts and approaching junctions when you want to move one car length forward.

 

I did discover that reducing the brake pedal pressure after stopping, seems to stop it turning off engine.   But that process is a sort of riding the clutch with the brake pedal to trick the DSG, but surely whole purpose of an automatic is you either press right pedal to go, or left pedal to stop and balancing pedals mid position isn't a skill should need with auto box

 

Therefore tend to turn it off.

 

Can't really say about mpg.  On open road at 50-60mph will easily get 46-49mph, at 80ish the (lack of) aerodynamics cut that to about 37-42 mpg.   In very bad London traffic can be down nearer 25-30mpg.  But I've never left it on in bad traffic moving in irregular stop/starts and slow creep forwards as engine cutting out  annoys me too much.   

 

The system isn't that useful on hot days in traffic, as the engine has to keep cutting back in for the climate control to maintain cool air  (but in EU lab tests air con is turned off, so miles from real world)

 

 

Edited 19 May, 2017 by SurreyJohn

[longedge]

If it were off by default I'd prefer it and probably far fewer people would be pressing the switch than do now.

[Robjon]

28 minutes ago, Expatman said:

 How do other drivers use the stop/start system...?

 

I don't!

[nbramwel]

I think the principles of stop/start are fine but it is very impractical.  For instance, if I stop at traffic lights and put the car into neutral, the stop/start cancels itself and the engine starts up again.  Can't see the sense in this at all.  Also, my big worry is how long the starter motor will last before it gives up the ghost.

[Robjon]

I much preferred the stop/start systems I've had on every other car I have ever owned. 

If I knew I wouldn't be moving for a minute or two, I switched off the ignition.  Simples. 

The only exception to this was my Mk1 Hillman Imp, which flatly refused to re-start when hot!

[graham47]

Don't even give it a thought !!  Just let it get on with it but I have learned to use light brake pressure where needed to 'fool' it.

Surely it's impossible to compare mpg (unless you run a test over a considerable mileage ) !

Day to day conditions change so the level of accuracy can't be guaranteed.

 

[Expatman]

24 minutes ago, graham47 said:

Don't even give it a thought !!  Just let it get on with it but I have learned to use light brake pressure where needed to 'fool' it.

Surely it's impossible to compare mpg (unless you run a test over a considerable mileage ) !

Day to day conditions change so the level of accuracy can't be guaranteed.

 

Using 'light brake pressure' is putting considerable strain on the DSG box clutches. The 7 speed DSG box is a dry version of the original 6 speed wet DSG box and what you are doing is effectively "riding" the clutch and will generate significant heat and risk premature wear on the clutch pack. Be careful!

[Llanigraham]

I just let it do what it wants to do. 

Considering the starter motor etc are beefed up to take account of the use I really don't see any problems with it.

[JCP]

never had one but two daughters have one (fiat 500)nca'nt bear it the other (citigo) just gets on with life and lets it do it's own thing. I had a 1.2 loaner and found it not at all annoying to the extent I have ordered one and am looking forward to it.

[CFB]

I just let it get on with it, but...

it has caught me out a couple of times when trying to emerge at junctions.

You put your foot down to go into a gap then realise it isn't moving when you thought it would!

Its probably down to me, having the music at a moderate volume I don't hear the engine stop and am too busy watching traffic to look at the dash.

Normally brake to a stop and release the pedal a bit sorts it out though.

[logiclee]

19 hours ago, nbramwel said:

I think the principles of stop/start are fine but it is very impractical.  For instance, if I stop at traffic lights and put the car into neutral, the stop/start cancels itself and the engine starts up again.  Can't see the sense in this at all.  Also, my big worry is how long the starter motor will last before it gives up the ghost.

 

You need to go to Park not Nuetral. The engine will stay off until you go back to D and release the brake.

[Wardy]

Really quite annoying that. Not sure why start/stop can't cope with a shift to neutral and the handbrake applied. The car is able to detect both....

 

Seeing as a longer pause, where start/stop is beneficial, normally coincides with a move to neutral and handbrake. For me anyway.

 

A missed opportunity really.

[weasley]

Yesterday I took delivery of a new car, my first with a DSG. It's a SEAT Leon 1.4 EcoTSI 150 FR Technology if you're wondering, with the ACT engine and 7sp DSG.  Anyway, in the manual it specifically mentions that using light brake pressure is something you can do if you don't want the engine to shut down.  I actually discovered this during the demo drive by trial and error and it seems to work well; I can't sense any clutch drag - there is the usual small pause after lifting off the brake before drive is engaged.  I would assume that VAG use the same parameters across their brands.

[graham47]

14 minutes ago, weasley said:

Anyway, in the manual it specifically mentions that using light brake pressure is something you can do if you don't want the engine to shut down.  I actually discovered this during the demo drive by trial and error

 

This was advice I got given at handover, by the sales person, that I would soon get used to light braking so as not to engage stop/start where not necessary.

 

[Expatman]

27 minutes ago, graham47 said:

 

This was advice I got given at handover, by the sales person, that I would soon get used to light braking so as not to engage stop/start where not necessary.

 

Interesting as this is the opposite of the advice I got! Will have to try and find some definitive answer to this as clearly it is easier to hold on light braking to prevent the stop/start engaging when needed - like waiting to enter a busy roundabout. At the moment I tend to switch off the stop/start nearing roundabouts.

[longedge]

I wonder, is it the same sensor that controls the clutch and if so does the clutch disengage fully? I normally keep my foot very firmly planted. My last Yeti was a 6 speed and this one is 7 speed and as I have always understood it, a little bit of 'drag' in the 6 speed doesn't do any harm.

[graham47]

■ No automatic engine shut-down takes place when a vehicle with automatic transmission is moving at low speed (e.g. during a traffic jam) and remains sta- tionary after pressing the brake pedal lightly. Automatic engine shutdown takes place if you press the brake pedal down with more force.

■ 

 

Surely if it were a bad thing to avoid engine shutdown by braking lightly, the manual would specifically warn about premature clutch wear !

[nbramwel]

On 5/20/2017 at 12:22, Wardy said:

Really quite annoying that. Not sure why start/stop can't cope with a shift to neutral and the handbrake applied. The car is able to detect both....

 

Seeing as a longer pause, where start/stop is beneficial, normally coincides with a move to neutral and handbrake. For me anyway.

 

A missed opportunity really.

 

I agree.  When I was taught to drive (a long time ago I might add), the rule was stop the car, handbrake on then into neutral.  Part of the reason for this was so that you didn't dazzle the driver behind with your brake lights.  OK this is in a manual car but I can't see why the same principle should not apply in an automatic with the stop/start activating and the engine staying off in neutral until you need to move away.  Besides moving the gear lever from drive to park then back again is a pain - the two modes are at the opposite end of the gear shift mechanism to each other.

[Wardy]

Yes, quite right. And it's still best practice now.

[kenfowler3966]

Apparently this is a UK thing and is not normal in many other countries where it is customary to just sit with the footbrake applied unless you need the handbrake for a hill start.

[Ootohere]

Where you have Auto Hold the job is done for the driver if just halted or halted with the car stopped via Stop / Start.

Odd how different VW Group vehicles can have the brake light on or not.

You obviously would want the brake lights illuminated in you are the last or only vehicle stopped, but only need those illuminated until another vehicle stops behind you.

[Expatman]

2 hours ago, kenfowler3966 said:

Apparently this is a UK thing and is not normal in many other countries where it is customary to just sit with the footbrake applied unless you need the handbrake for a hill start.

You are right. I lived in the USA for 15 years and 95%+ of the cars were automatic and everyone just used the footbrake to hold the car at junctions etc. Don't remember anyone ever commenting on bright brake lights. I have been back in the UK for years and to be honest I haver never thought about 'bright' brake lights dazzling me - do they really dazzle anyone?

[Wardy]

It's not really a concern of mine what is done in other countries.

 

It's the best and safest way of holding the vehicle in a stopped situation. It's why it's still recommend and taught as part of Advanced Driving tuition.

 

One example; if you happen to be unfortunate enough to be run into while stationary, the likely reaction is that your foot will come off the brake pedal. If the handbrake is applied, the vehicle is properly secured.