DSG advice please?

[GeneralPurpose]

TBH simon, you will find the car adapts to your driving style and you to, will adapt. However, most autos when in drive, will short shift ( change up early) to save fuel. This is of no detriment to the engine as unlike other recent engine designs, the turbo TSI engine can handle low engine revs because they are a longer stroke engine design (as opposed to a short stroke engine) and not stressed under those conditions. I love being able to pull out into traffic and finding the car in 7th gear at just over 40mph.  It's completely seamless and very smooth. If I need performance I use sport mode or go to manual, it's fun either way. That's not to say 'D' is slow by any means. You can play a tune with the engine and gearbox with just your right foot. Shame you can't borrow one for a couple of days so you can properly experience the DSG experience. 

[Rooted]

Estate Man,

have you received conformation from Skoda / VW or the VW Master Techs you know or work with that service campaign '34H5' does not go as far as early 

Mk3 Fabia with DQ200 DSG manufactured in 2014/15,  or that any other Software Updates are not being carried out or tried on them?

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/432730-oil-leak 

[GeneralPurpose]

No, haven't heard anything on the newer boxes. Only the minor software update to the gearbox ECU to reduce electrical power consumption on 2015 & some 2016 cars. From , I think July 2016 cars come out the factory already fettled. My previous dsg was built in August 2016 and that had the latest electrical  update. I'll ask my buddies as soon as I can.

[Rooted]

Which Minor Software Update is this to reduce electrical power consumption, does it have some TPI or service campaign code?

How do owners find out if their vehicle should have it, or is it yet another Skoda Secret Service Service Campaign.?

[norsko]

On ‎04‎.‎06‎.‎2017 at 12:39, simon1304 said:

 

Thanks.   Points taken.   I agree that, on forums generally, someone is more likely to comment on a problem than if everything is fine and dandy (I'm no different).   I will have that test drive on a 1.0 tsi DSG (when available).

 

There just may be something else going on here, though, that I hadn't been expecting.   In the last couple of weeks I've now had test drives in 4 autos (1xDSG, 2xTC and 1xCVT).    No problem with the fact that the gears were being changed for me - but not always happy with which gear was being selected - and when.    Maybe losing this element of control after many years of owning manuals isn't as easy as I thought it would be (but I would get used to it?).   Or maybe I just have latent control freak tendencies.

I bought my first auto a year ago; 6-speed DSG and had the same experience as you the first couple of weeks. After a while you just stop thinking about it and let the car do its thing as it want to, and discover that it actually does it very well. Yes it changes gear at low rpm, but even petrol turbo engines this days has a lot of torque at low rpm so it isnt any problem at all.

[simon1304]

Thanks all.   I think that I might hire something with a DSG for a day or two to see how I get on with it.   Short test drives aren't much use really.   Better a few £s on a hire car than an expensive mistake buying a car that I don't like or missing out on a car that I would have liked.

[Rooted]

Good idea, 

but just try Skoda UK or Seat UK, even VW or Audi and see about them lending a Demonstrator for a proper day or weekend.

After all they have thousands of these 'Management cars' around the UK, in dealerships etc being driven as Demonstrators (perks) for 3,000 miles /3 months, 

or they seem to have seeing how many Management Cars the VW Group advertise.

[simon1304]

19 hours ago, Awayoffski said:

or they seem to have seeing how many Management Cars the VW Group advertise.

 

Ah, yes, the "Management Cars"...(off topic alert)... I've sometimes wondered about these too.   Given the numbers of them, and that VAG don't manufacture in the UK, I've often thought that Milton Keynes must be positively overwhelmed by VAG managers and their cars;   thing is, I often drive through MK and don't see any more VAG cars there than anywhere else.

 

I've always assumed that "Management Cars" means 'cars controlled by management' and may include press demos, fleet demos and God knows what else (I think that dealers have to buy their demos though?).

[Tilt]

I do find mine changes up (too) early on occasions, but it depends on the incline of the road as to wether i have to do a manual change down or not.

 

It would help the gearbox if it had a pendulum type sensor so it would know if starting uphill it would not change up.

On one particular journey of mine travelling at 30 mph and just starting to climb a hill, but because of the momentum of the car just exiting a dip, it changes up to fifth, then struggles and changes down again seconds later. Bit annoying but now i just nudge it over to +/- before it changes up.

 

Guess they will work a little differently in different cars ie petrol vs diesel, large engine vs small engine, big car vs small, heavy or light etc etc.

 

Is there a particular reason you are thinking of an auto????

[GeneralPurpose]

Tilt, your car has a chip in the ECU that detects whether or not your car is on level road, going uphill, downhill, tilting left or right etc. In addition the ECU links that information to other data coming from sensors in the engine, gearbox, brakes, throttle, road speed etc in order to make sure you are in the right gear. If yours is a bit slow at dealing with a particular road situation, then teach it to respond differently by altering your driving leading up to and through the problem area. Leave the box in 'D' and force it to learn. Try using the throttle differently to help teach it. It normally learns what you want it to do quite quickly.

[GeneralPurpose]

On 2017-6-4 at 18:37, Awayoffski said:

Which Minor Software Update is this to reduce electrical power consumption, does it have some TPI or service campaign code?

How do owners find out if their vehicle should have it, or is it yet another Skoda Secret Service Service Campaign.?

 

No it's not secret, I think you even raised this update in a post of yours at the start of this year. It was not some urgent 'do now' update. I think james@rgb also mentioned it at the same time. I checked my vin and my car came out the factory last August with the new software. Cars going in for service are being checked if the vin falls in the affected range. It reduces electrical power consumption considerably and no doubt will assist the stop/start system.

[SurreyJohn]

We have a 2012 roomster DSG 105, had a 2014 Fabia DSG 105, and I now drive a 2016 Yeti DSG 110, and don't recognise any of the problems you mention.  However the rapid does have the 90 bhp engine so might be programmed differently.

 

Possibly it is where you live that dealer doesn't seem to have any DSGs, I'm on the edge of London so dealers have loads, because (in their words) no one wants the manuals in this area because of traffic lights etc.

 

My commute is about 10 miles each way (luckily against the main traffic flow), and I did once watch the gear indication. From stopping showing 1 to running showing 7 happened so frequently I realised there were something like 120 gear changes each journey (but so smooth you can't feel them).  So basically does over 1100 gear changes each week and I have never had a problem with the Fabia or Yeti (For completeness the roomster which is used lot less, did have a new double clutch unit under warranty after 2.5 years, as it was from DSG problem era, but has been fine since). But the newer cars have never had a problem (absolutely no warranty work needed on anything).

 

Of course you cannot now get the 1.2 tsi as an order (might still be some around in stock, and are available as nearly new), but I recommend it.  

 

I can't comment on new 3 cylinder 1.0tsi DSG as I haven't driven it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 8 June, 2017 by SurreyJohn

[Rooted]

'34H5' is a Software Update of DSG to reduce pressure in the DSG as far as i know.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/432730-oil-leak 

The OP's Mothers car is getting a new Mechatronic Control Unit fitted,

this is a late build Mk2 with a DQ 200 DSG.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/425424-2017-another-dq200-7-speed-dsg-service-campaign 

Edited 8 June, 2017 by Awayoffski

[spottydog]

I had a 2013 1.2 dsg Yeti and the biggest problem for me was the hesitation when trying to pull away from a standstill quickly. It did nothing for a second then would spin the wheels and suddenly lurch forward. Potentially very dangerous. Skoda dealer let me try another Yeti and it was the same. I now see this mentioned in quite a few Skoda used car road tests and also that a software update fixes it but this was not available to me when I sold the Yeti 18 months later.

I had a 2010 1.8 dsg Octavia last year for a couple of months and that had a fantastic gearbox. No hesitation, only in 4th at 30mph and much better change down when going down hills. I know this had the gearbox oil changed so probably had the software update done at the same time.

[Rooted]

Road Testers mentioned it, and for up to 7 years it keeps getting repeated.

But road testers and journalists drive 'Media / Press Cars',  this is like driving a Hire Car, or a Dealership Demonstrator, or a Used Car,

Get in a car with a DSG and it can behave as to the way the last driver was driving.

 

Try it with you own cars, you know how your car / dsg performs, lend it to someone, maybe a son, daughter or partner, your best friend, even just to a Dealership for a Service and Road test, and see when you get in next how it feels first time you drive it.

 

Many report this nothing then all the go, wheel spin with a DSG, 

Small Capacity revvy Petrol Turbo Engine or even small capacity TDI & Twin Dry Clutch 7 speed box does not behave like a Bigger Petrol or TDI with a 

6 or even now 7 speed wet clutch DSG.

 

There are plenty that do not like how a DQ200 behaves so they do not need to drive one, 

or might need to adjust how they use the one they have as they need 2 pedal cars.

It is pretty easy to adjust the throttle use to pull away from junctions if you have a nippy engine and a dsg that feel like a on off switch.

110-140 ps of mind blowing warp speed available power and a DSG surely can be controlled with a light throttle pedal.

Edited 8 June, 2017 by Awayoffski

[simon1304]

On 07/06/2017 at 11:23, Tilt said:

Is there a particular reason you are thinking of an auto????

 

Really comes down to no more than manual gear changing being a bit of a chore when tired/bored on long trips (prompted by recent long weekend in Devon).   And I foresee my annual mileage increasing, and including more long trips, in the short to medium term.

 

I've always said that if I lived in, or commuted into, a busy town/city I would have bought an auto years ago;    but I'm now retired, live on the outskirts of a small town in Cambs, and don't regularly have to endure too much stop-start driving.   So, most of the time, a manual is fine.

 

Another issue that this thread has thrown up - for me - is that DSGs do seem to have needed periodic service/software updates even if not actually faulty;    and, as they are not actual safety 'recalls', I would only get future updates during routine visits to a Skoda dealer.    I happen to live in a Skoda-dealer-free-zone.   When a car is in the warranty period I do take it to a dealer but, when out of warranty, it goes to an excellent local indy.

 

Anyway, I've said that I'll try a 1.0 DSG when they are available and I will.   Open mind for now.   Until then, I shall shut up!

 

 

[Rooted]

No DQ200 DSG should not need periodic Software Update.  Not part of the Design or Engineers Mission...

 

The World Wide Recall and European Service campaign was because of a Fault in VW's Materials / Fluids, 34F7

Millions of DQ200 DSG's world wide eventually.

http://skoda.co.nz/news/dsg-service-campaign 

then the recent one a software patch which seems to be to resolve some other Fundamental Design  or Manufacturing failings. 34H5

 

So maybe you are right to avoid, 

but by now surely VW Group have finally got their act together.  Or SKODA have.

http://autoevolution.com/news/skoda-builds-5000000th-dq200-gearbox-88712.html 

Edited 8 June, 2017 by Awayoffski

[the_raz]

On 6/4/2017 at 13:39, simon1304 said:

 

Thanks.   Points taken.   I agree that, on forums generally, someone is more likely to comment on a problem than if everything is fine and dandy (I'm no different).   I will have that test drive on a 1.0 tsi DSG (when available).

 

There just may be something else going on here, though, that I hadn't been expecting.   In the last couple of weeks I've now had test drives in 4 autos (1xDSG, 2xTC and 1xCVT).    No problem with the fact that the gears were being changed for me - but not always happy with which gear was being selected - and when.    Maybe losing this element of control after many years of owning manuals isn't as easy as I thought it would be (but I would get used to it?).   Or maybe I just have latent control freak tendencies.

 

You will just have to realize that at least the DSG does a better job of keeping the right gear than you can do  

 

I drove a DSG for 4 years, and was totally happy with it once I learned the starting from standstill procedure. On road driving, I could get it to change down exactly when I wanted for overtaking by pressing the throttle decisively and fairly much - even to the point that I could decide if I wanted 7->4 or 7->5 for overtaking! In the winter in slippery conditions, I was able to get moving without any wheel spin, even better than I can do in a manual car. The only thing I regret in our current yellow Fabia is that I did not opt for the DSG, at the time it felt expensive, but boy, have I regretted that decision during the last two years... 

[simon1304]

On 08/06/2017 at 12:40, the_raz said:

 

You will just have to realize that at least the DSG does a better job of keeping the right gear than you can do

 

I do note the Smiley... But 'better' and 'right', in this context, are very subjective!

 

Better and right for economy - possibly.

 

Better and right for mechanical sympathy/longevity and car control - yet to be convinced!

[Rooted]

For car control, the DSG is an automated manual and the driver has control, as for longevity of the engine, then a bad driver that has little driving skills with a clutch can shorten an engine's life, rather hard with a Automatic or Automated manual to do that.

Edited 13 June, 2017 by Awayoffski

[Tilt]

On 6/7/2017 at 23:12, Estate Man said:

Tilt, your car has a chip in the ECU that detects whether or not your car is on level road, going uphill, downhill, tilting left or right etc. In addition the ECU links that information to other data coming from sensors in the engine, gearbox, brakes, throttle, road speed etc in order to make sure you are in the right gear. If yours is a bit slow at dealing with a particular road situation, then teach it to respond differently by altering your driving leading up to and through the problem area. Leave the box in 'D' and force it to learn. Try using the throttle differently to help teach it. It normally learns what you want it to do quite quickly.

 

If it has a chip in it then why does it change up into fifth @30 mph and going uphill???

How does the chip know the car's elevation??? I'm happy to be educated.

If I have to force it to learn then that is against what the gearbox is set up for, ie economy, as the only way i could make it stay in lower gear would be to use S, or be accelerating (see below). 

If i leave it in D then it changes up, and if i use the throttle differently then i would have to be accelerating for it to stay in fourth, and then i would be exceeding the speed limit.

 

A slightly similar note - mine does have a ridiculously short first gear, as in the box will change into 2nd within 2 yards of pulling away and even when rolling off my driveway at a few mph. (yep, 2nd at walking pace.

[Rooted]

6mph changing up to 2nd in some 7 speed DSG and not dropping to 1st until stopped.

Perfect, gives the ability to move at walking pace when starting off.

Boot it off the line and it will not be at walking pace when it changes into 2nd.

(If you had a 7 speed manual gearbox in a car when would you be changing into 2nd just driving easy?)

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/391899-dsg-and-uphilldownhill-driving 

Edited 13 June, 2017 by Awayoffski

[GeneralPurpose]

3 hours ago, Tilt said:

 

If it has a chip in it then why does it change up into fifth @30 mph and going uphill???

How does the chip know the car's elevation??? I'm happy to be educated.

If I have to force it to learn then that is against what the gearbox is set up for, ie economy, as the only way i could make it stay in lower gear would be to use S, or be accelerating (see below). 

If i leave it in D then it changes up, and if i use the throttle differently then i would have to be accelerating for it to stay in fourth, and then i would be exceeding the speed limit.

 

A slightly similar note - mine does have a ridiculously short first gear, as in the box will change into 2nd within 2 yards of pulling away and even when rolling off my driveway at a few mph. (yep, 2nd at walking pace.

 

All the auto boxes have a very short 1st gear for normal driving. it's job is just to get the car rolling and then go straight to 2nd gear. Mine changes within 1.5 metres from 1st to 2nd. Quite normal. Your gearbox can learn you individual driving habits for each drive that you make regardless of it being in 'D' or 'S' mode. You may find if you alter your driving style slightly it will make a big difference. Regarding the ecu chip...it does not know your cars elevation but it does know the attitude of your car ie: whether going uphill or downhill, tilting left or right etc. The chip works just the same as the one in your smart mobile phone regarding the phones rotation/orientation etc except it's in your car and doing pretty much the same job in that respect. This information is very useful for you car to know rather than just relying on throttle, engine speed and other sensor feedback. It enables the car to be much smarter and for the gearbox and engine to work better together and faster. For example, you may have noticed when going down a very steep hill that the car will change down automatically even if it doesn't need to in order to assist with engine braking. That's mostly the ecu tilt chip triggering the event. It will also do this on some less steep hills too if the car detects you braking slightly, again to assist you with keeping good control. It's the same when going uphill. Your car gearbox is more responsive because the chip tells the gearbox ecu the car is now going uphill, and asks, "does the gearbox want to change down"? It also looks at the speed, engine revs, torque being applied, throttle settings, emissions etc to help with this decision. If there is enough power available it may not change down, even going uphill if it is not necessary. Unless you as the driver ask for more power. My own DSG also changes up through the gears in 'D' mode even when going uphill (unless it is a steep hill and more power is required). This has not at anytime caused any problems or stressed the engine. The engine and gearbox are quick to change down again if needed. Obviously, I can't tell exactly what situation you are speaking of, but the car should sort it out ok whatever mode you are in. If it's not, and it bothers you then use some extra driver input to alter the situation. Normally this could be asking for more power or kicking it down. As for breaking the speed limit, if you are driving in a low speed area you must of course take that into account, and in any case, your engine and gearbox will sort it out for you without you needing to speed. 

[Rooted]

A rather interesting VID that was posted in another thread where a member is having DSG issues.

 

[spottydog]

I tried all ways to pull away "normally" with the Yeti dsg but unless you used very small throttle openings and consequently move off from standstill very slowly it would hesitate. No way could I try a quick pull out from a junction or roundabout safely. 

The Octavia had the same DQ200 7 speed dry clutch gearbox and didn't do this so it's obviously not my driving style it's a set up problem.