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Emmisions "Fix" and Rip Off Britain


The Hood

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In February I contacted Rip Off Britain regarding the emissions fix, and the treatment owners were getting after experiencing post fix "problems" such as EGR, DPF failure, increased regeneration loss of low down torque, increased fuel consumption.

 

I have recently spoken to one of their producers and they are planning to take up the topic. I have copies of all five letters sent to owners, the post fix certificate, the VW US offer. What is needed is factual content from owners who have had the fix applied, I know of two owners who had the fix applied without their permission, and others who innocently said yes and suffered. In balance there are also owners who have had the fix without problems.

 

The fix appears to alter the injector pattern lowering the combustion temperature. This reduces the low end torque, uses slightly more fuel, and produces more soot. This soot puts more strain on the EGR and DPF and causes more regenerations by the DPF so an increased tick over and fans running on after turning off the engine may be noticed. With a low mileage or fairly new vehicle there may not be an immediate problem but the EGR and DPF have a finite "life" and the fix appears to reduce this, so even if you have had the fix carried out and currently notice no change, it could prove otherwise later on, either before or after you sell the vehicle on.

 

 

If you have had the fix carried out and would not object to either adding your experience to the overall "statistics" or being contacted by R.O.B. could you please respond to this thread. As this material is likely to be used by a factual TV programme can you please stick to factual details rather than hypothetical, I have no financial interest in the outcome of the programme.

 

Edited by ColinD
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Hi The Hood. Newbie here, just popped over from FB The Volkswagen Diesel Customer Forum (Emissions Scandal) group. We have loads of victims of the failed fix, all VAG brands, 4,300 members and counting. No problem finding some really depressing examples for Rip Off Britains - lots of EGR failures, injectors, high pressure pumps, regenerations that never stop. Some have been back for repairs up to 6 times. Several have been tricked into taking the voluntary fix. At least one has reported total engine cut-out on route, and NOT just limp mode, so a real safety issue. My skoda got the fix call today. We can help and have been trying ton get on Watchdog etc. #vwfixfail on twitter. Gaz Pritchard lead admin on group, Rebecca Jones trying to keep a log of multiple egr failures etc. Suggest you join them and liaise directly - you might want to go pm and messenger secret as I am  sure VW are snooping in the group

 

Good luck.

Edited by WestWalesAndy
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The producer I spoke to said he has already spoken to the person who was arranging the Facebook protest, and I assume has that covered, it may sound odd but I have a problem with Facebook and refuse to use it.  I have not been on this forum for some time and expect there will be a larger thread on the subject here. The problem with forums is that often people just join and post when they have a problem and don't come back. What is needed are owners that are current and have been affected and are happy to be included and/or contacted. The bigger the spread of owners the better. However I also know of people who at present do not have any adverse effects and I expect they will try and present both sides of the argument.

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Need to know whether I have to go get the fix applied, just got my call in letter. I have a 2012 1.6 TDi engine. Now can I just ignore this or do I get some kind of penalty? I am part of the class action and heard of 1000's of failures and don't want to take the chance of ruining what I consider to be a decent engine.

Thanks for any advice

Natalie M

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I have been tracking the issue from the start. Skoda drivers are lucky that VCA certifies the brand, rather than the German KBA, who gave the go ahead for the VW and Audi fixes much earlier, so we lot can learn from all those poor sods. Having read hundreds of the posts on the FB group it appears, generally,  that it is the 3-4 year old, 50-60k mileage 1.6s that suffer most. All the extra recirculation of the exhaust is producing a cooler burn and the injectors are doing more late cycle injection, net effect is more soot going to dpf and back round the egr, clogging the valve itself and the cooler. Lots more regens as a consequence. A lot of people are using diesels for short urban runs, so plenty of them failing. The EGRs are in short supply and the rumour is that some are defective or not up to  the job. Gaz, the FB initiator, triggered the protest at VW HQ with some of the early people. If he is talking to the ROB people he should be able to point to some representative cases. Let me know if you want any specific cases to feed to ROB - plenty of the FB lot are naive users with little technical knowledge, but have experienced the problems.

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There is no obligation to get the technical measures applied. It is not a safety recall. DVSA have confirmed this. There is no penalty for not having the fix applied. Complaints have been made to International Vehicle Standards part of DVSA about Volkswagen using the DVSA logo and the implied requirement and authorization by DVSA. VAG are offering a conditional 24 month warranty on some of the components that may be adversely be affected, but in US and Canada they gave up to 11 years plus compensation. They also have the alternative of compensation and VAG buying back of the car. Check out pictures of Silverdome VW - 5,000 cars awaiting scrapping and recycling of TDIs - one of perrhaps 5 or 5 regional dumping grounds.

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Hi The Hood and All, 

Really good stuff here.  I am following the EA189 pages re the fix, but The Hood words are spot on to me and NO I will not be having the "fix" done.  See the other words on:

 

“  

All the best.

 

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Hi Hood

 

Can you pass me the details of the Rip Off Britain producer. The admin people on FB have not had contact with them. Maybe the ROB person was talking to another group?

 

Incidentally it was one of the group members who gave his experience on the Channel 4 News item. Looks like some versions of the EA189 lead to the engine just stopping en-route with no lights or even limp mode kicking. Audis and VWs so far. I have not heard of any Skodas. News item - https://www.channel4.com/news/vw-software-fix-has-damaged-vehicles

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I don't think it would be a good idea to pass the producers details around, he mentioned the Facebook group during a lengthy phone conversation. I contacted them back in February so it took them six months to come back to me.

However I have received the email below in response to one that I had sent, I don't know if they have been told not to interfere or if they will come back, I have told them they are welcome to contact me again at a later date. Maybe it's time to drop a line to Watchdog.

 

 

Hi Derek,

 Thanks for your email – sounds like you have been busy.

Sadly, we learnt late last week that there was some editorial overlap with one of the other shows we produce and had to take the difficult decision to put this story on the backburner from a Rip Off Britain point of view.

 Although it’s disappointing we can’t see this through now, we’re certainly keen to look at this again in a future series so if it’s OK we’ll keep your details on record and get back in touch when we’re in a position to move forward.

 Best,

 Tim

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Thanks Hood. I expect it may be Watchdog as they have been contacted a few times. I have been trying to get Despatches on Channel 4 to do a new report. They did one earlier about the general scandal The issues now are three-fold - mis-selling, poisonous NOx emissions esp in urban environment and safety. Top VW man said "no, none, zero" reports of safety incidents on fixed cars to TSC in Feb, but there are plenty examples of cars going into limp mode in dangerous situations and a few where the engine has just cut-out with warning. It is the latter that worries me.

 

And yes I have been concerned for a long time, even got mentioned on You and Yours as "angry" from Wales. Now even angrier!

 

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Evidently it was Watchdog and their article may appear on July 12th or thereabouts.  I'm surprised that Rip Off Britain were unaware and contacted me.

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Thanks for the updates on this, we have a rapid 1.6TDi with the EA189 engine issue and at this moment in time we will not be taking it in as the fix ONLY changes the rolling road testing emissions, NOT on the road values ! and then it drives with other problems,I don't think so, I will start recording Watchdog. cheers Stuart

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Hi Hood and sparky2

 

I think there may have been a lot of discussion going on within the BBC about who reports what depending on the slant of the story and the programmes' differing specialties. 

 

There is going to be a report about the VW emissions scandal on Radio 4, File on 4 at 8pm on Tuesday 11th July, http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08x9ckv

 

I would not be surprised if there was a Panorama programme to follow. A lot of people like the pictures and the words. I hope Dispatches do  something too.

 

Lots more stories to come out of Germany. After the elections, or course.

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I have 2 examples of EGR failure.

 

1. A 13 plate Tiguan purchased as used from a local VW dealer by my daughter and son in law in February.

1st EGR failure in less than 24 hrs from delivery.

Since then 2 other failures - all resorted in having to get VW assist to collect the car and return to dealer. In total the dealer has had the car for more than half the time they have owned it.

Now attempting to reject the vehicle under the consumer protection act 2015.

 

2. My Yeti which I purchased new on a 62 plate and sold on just before it was 3 years old, (replaced by a Euro6 Octavia) has suffered an EGR failure yesterday - now back with Skoda dealers.

 

I am convinced this is almost a bigger issue than the original cheat problem. It would seem that perfectly satisfactory vehicles have been damaged by the software update.

Edited by vegit8
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Just remember it's optional UNLESS VAG own it via lease. PCP or HP (as in you hold the V5) it's yours effectively, and they cannot force it on you. 

 

However get it noted at each dealer visit otherwise they'll do it automatically. 

 

They will automatically 'fix' and cars they're selling or get in via a trade, so you can't avoid if buying from a dealership 

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Gadgetman. It may be optional, but it is not stopping dealers some doing it without consent. If you take an EA189 in for anything and you do not want the fix applied, you should make damn sure you tell them and sign the VAG  decline form. Check out the Facebook group - plenty of cases of it happening -  https://www.facebook.com/groups/955027937948541/?ref=group_header

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8 hours ago, vegit8 said:

I have 2 examples of EGR failure.

 

1. A 13 plate Tiguan purchased as used from a local VW dealer by my daughter and son in law in February.

1st EGR failure in less than 24 hrs from delivery.

Since then 2 other failures - all resorted in having to get VW assist to collect the car and return to dealer. In total the dealer has had the car for more than half the time they have owned it.

Now attempting to reject the vehicle under the consumer protection act 2015.

 

2. My Yeti which I purchased new on a 62 plate and sold on just before it was 3 years old, (replaced by a Euro6 Octavia) has suffered an EGR failure yesterday - now back with Skoda dealers.

 

I am convinced this is almost a bigger issue than the original cheat problem. It would seem that perfectly satisfactory vehicles have been damaged by the software update.

 

Vegit8 you should probably join the Facebook group. Plenty of people going through the same thing, a problem shared and all that - https://www.facebook.com/groups/955027937948541/?ref=group_header

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30 minutes ago, WestWalesAndy said:

Gadgetman. It may be optional, but it is not stopping dealers some doing it without consent. If you take an EA189 in for anything and you do not want the fix applied, you should make damn sure you tell them and sign the VAG  decline form. Check out the Facebook group - plenty of cases of it happening -  https://www.facebook.com/groups/955027937948541/?ref=group_header

You get it clearly noted, on the job sheet the fix isn't to be done.  If they then do it behind your back you will have legal recourse.

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That would be an interesting Civil Case in a court in England / Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland.

 

My vehicle was in for a Service at a Dealership & i signed that a Software Update or Enhancement could be carried out but not the VW Group EU wide 

Defeat Device Removal of the supposedly not Illegal Defeat device that VW are committed to removing in 1.2 million UK vehicles and which the UK Government agency the DVSA have approved but which is not compulsory to have done.

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44 minutes ago, Awayoffski said:

That would be an interesting Civil Case in a court in England / Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland.

 

My vehicle was in for a Service at a Dealership & i signed that a Software Update or Enhancement could be carried out but not the VW Group EU wide 

Defeat Device Removal of the supposedly not Illegal Defeat device that VW are committed to removing in 1.2 million UK vehicles and which the UK Government agency the DVSA have approved but which is not compulsory to have done.

I guess George the agreement between government and VW giving the owner a right to decline is legally enforceable if breached, I would have thought........denied a declared right?.

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No doubt that Dealerships should not ignore the owners wish, and there are ones that are, but it will be interesting to see what an Owner is told when going to a solicitor and looking to take a Dealership or the Owners to court for the actions they took, 

unless the car does then have a fault caused by having the fix, and that is the can of worms that the UK Government and Chris Grayling MP needs to get involved in.

Or the class actions might bring it to a head.

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15 minutes ago, Awayoffski said:

No doubt that Dealerships should not ignore the owners wish, and there are ones that are, but it will be interesting to see what an Owner is told when going to a solicitor and looking to take a Dealership or the Owners to court for the actions they took, 

unless the car does then have a fault caused by having the fix, and that is the can of worms that the UK Government and Chris Grayling MP needs to get involved in.

Or the class actions might bring it to a head.

It'd be ironic if they got into trouble for reinstalling the 'cheat' they'd illegally removed.......hahaha

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11 hours ago, WestWalesAndy said:

 

Vegit8 you should probably join the Facebook group. Plenty of people going through the same thing, a problem shared and all that - https://www.facebook.com/groups/955027937948541/?ref=group_header

 

Hi - thanks for that. I have shared the link with the two owners of the vehicles.

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