Will some people never be able to retire

[lol-lol]

5 hours ago, punyXpress said:

Prefer " I'm All Right, Jack " as an example film

 

Having spent a decade in the Civil Service with HMRC and that branch of public service, like many of the government departments, had a non-contributory pension scheme ie you accepted a lower wage than what you have with a private firm as part of the overall package.  When the Con government, propped up by the LibDems, realised that they were not getting the UK National Debt fast enough, despite screwing the Public Servant wages to the floor, to partly pay for the lowering of corporation tax rates, reducing the highest rate of personal tax rate and now funding the raising of the upper threshold to a goal of £50K, as stated in May's election pitch only a few weeks ago the last Con-Dem government decide to save itself a fortune by pegging future public servant pension rises against the CPI measure rather than the RPI one.  This condemns millions to a ever worsening pension in real terms.

 

Therefore it is totally reasonable that ex public servants, and those currently in public offices ie doctors, nurses, teachers etc, realise just how bad the deal from the current government is both in salary and their future pension, and look to move away from those jobs, in to the private sector, until we get to the position where we think they paid properly against overall national average wages, where we do not have the Chancellor of the Exchequer saying he think public servant over paid .....  

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/829165/Philip-Hammond-public-sector-workers-overpaid-cabinet-row-Theresa-May 

 

Various pension reports have come up with figures saying individuals should be putting 14% (when combined with their employer's contribution) to have a life style close to what they had during their working life, I need to put in more as it looks like my HMRC pension is an ever diminishing amount in real terms so I need to compensate by putting circa £20K a year in my pension now, and the UK government makes it so attractive to do it by offering tax relief for the full 40% that might have been paid. Gideon Osborne even considered dropping the 40% tax relief available but May's government has let the 40% tax relief continue so one is a mug not to take advantage of it!

 

Fortunately for the UK government I will be able to collect a lot more tax on imports in my job in a couple of years time to help the balancing of its books, it may go from around £34B to maybe as much as £100B which will close the expanding National Debt before it hits £2T maybe.   

Edited 22 July, 2017 by lol-lol

[Auric Goldfinger]

On 21/07/2017 at 16:53, VRS Mike said:

I got offered a job today with a company who still have a final salary based pension based on average career earnings. If I stay their till I'm 68 I could actually have a good retirement! Bit of a change from my plan a few days ago!

 

I was quite lucky when I retired, I was on a Final Salary pension with British Rail as I'm Ex British Rail Staff so I was classed as being Protected. Anyone coming into the Rail Industry today there pension is with who ever runs the franchise, if that company leaves/or loses the franchise the pension is passed over to the new company. I think Final salary pensions are a thing of the past or getting that way. My pension lump sum was tax free and I don't think that will last long either............Not tax free, not that I've spent it............

Edited 24 August, 2017 by Auric Goldfinger

[lol-lol]

32 minutes ago, Auric Goldfinger said:

 

I was quite luck when I retired, I was on a Final Salary pension with British Rail as I'm Ex British Rail Staff so I was classed as being Protected. Anyone coming into the Rail Industry today there pension is with who ever runs the franchise, if that compant leaves/or loses the franchise the pention is passed over to the new company. I think Final salary pensions are a thing of the past or getting that way. My pension lump sum was tax free and I don't think that will last long either............Not tax free, not that I've spent it............

 

I was just over the threshold when Gorgeous Gideon introduced his sweeping changes so I can get my lump sum and civil servant pension at the lower age, not as low as some schemes which went as low as 55 or even when you had done 27.5 years I recall.    http://www.civilservant.org.uk/information-pensions.html

 

Since the UK national debt has doubled over the last 7 years so we can all appreciate that we all want the slide in to greater indebtedness is reversed but who pays the piper? Perhaps they will allow a quarter to be untaxed, and tax the rest at the standard rates?   The lump was up to a year and half salary I recall but I only did a quarter of the time before going back to private industry so 10/80th of salary for pension and about 4 month salary indexed at RPI until 2010 and then indexed at CPI from 2010 to my civil retirement in 4 years.

 

Oddly if I am still working, but getting my civil servant pension, I would divert more work earnings to pension to offset the pension receipts, up to the maximum which is £40K per year but I thought there was talk of lowering to it to £30k, deferred for a while, with the lifetime cap of £1M, which sounds a lot but many London workers have to consider.

 

With savings rate so bad it is difficult to know where to stack cash.  I have just opened a third current account with my main bank as the all the saving accounts have laughable interest rates ie 0.1% when RPI is 3.5% so at least I can get 2% in a current account.  I was not impressed with Lloyds Bank Wealth Management and always looking for ideas on how to keep up with inflation, especially now that it has returned after a couple of years of being benign.          

      

Edited 22 July, 2017 by lol-lol

[Auric Goldfinger]

I went a 60 with 34 years service. BR protective staff can take there pension a 50 but with a lower lump sum/monthly payments 

[lol-lol]

1 hour ago, Auric Goldfinger said:

I went a 60 with 34 years service. BR protective staff can take there pension a 50 but with a lower lump sum/monthly payments 

I started work at 15 joining the Merchant Navy but did not get in to pension until 26 with the civil service but actual did not get serious with pensions until 49!

 

Just the best savings account one can have and now turned 55 it is joyous that it is there to tap.

Wonder if government might hike the minimum draw off age if more and more people do access their pensions as they do not trust the herberts to keep it safe or up with inflation?

 

[moley]

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

I started work at 15 joining the Merchant Navy

How were you able to leave school at 15 when the school leaving age was 16?

[lol-lol]

22 minutes ago, moley said:

How were you able to leave school at 15 when the school leaving age was 16?

 

My birthday is very late in the School year, they wanted me to join asap ie did my GCE, as they were in June/July, went almost straight after the exams, so was 15 and 11 months so almost 16 but a few weeks short of, start with pre-college colleague induction.       

[Sad555]

When I started work at 15 the retirement age was 65,so fifty years years of work ahead off me, and all 65 year olds did appear ((old))to me at that time but I was optimistic that this would reduce in the next fifty years .When I later got a job with a final salary pension (not really understanding what it was))i couldn't believe my luck that it also had a new retirement age of 60.....((result) but as time went on I realised that when 60 I would have to retire with my final salary pension but would have to wait another 5 yrs for my OAP,then suddenly the government in their wisdom decided workers could work till they dropped so I got my pension and gratuity at 60 and still carried on working (with full pay and pension) and this could have gone on until i dropped but thinking I've been more than lucky when after a few more years i was made an offer to leave,I WENT.so touchWood I've been very lucky.......gratuity and nearly 6.5 years of occupational pension,2.5 years OAP. and a bus pass.I do feel that I am part of a very,very lucky working class generation although it didn't feel like that in the 70s with  rampant inflation  and 15% mortgages .But for future generations of working class people I don't think this will be the case and whatever I can pass on to my family to make their life better for their future. I will. 

 

 

 

 

Edited 22 July, 2017 by Sad555
Spelling

[Octy0GG]

The worst of it is that as a lot of us are now realising there is no end to the number of times that both the government and employers schemes can change the rules and move the goal posts. In parallel with this the cult of youth advances with ever greater pace making it ever more difficult for older folk to gain or even retain employment, and despite any gestures to the contrary, age discrimination is the one form of discrimination which will always be accepted.

[FUBAR]

The fact that the older generations of late are living longer is one thing, but the assumption that those in their earlier working life will follow suit and have to pay for it, I dont see personally. The likes of growing obesity will surely see a sizeable drop off in this and dramatically reduce the ages people live to. Perhaps this is recognised and just not the given reasoning. Other countries have much harsher/responsible taxation. I'd rather have a reduced disposable income by paying more tax and actually be able to have some retirement than be condemned to work until I either, am put in a home (at my expense) or dead. What makes it harder to swallow politically, is that largely this is being implemented by those who as a generation it will not affect and are likely to live longer lives than those it will affect. There is then the impact of working on life expectancy itself, cant imagine the likes of a 70 odd year old police constable being too quick on their toes giving chase, or lots of occupations being suitable in a physical sense. 

[S00perb]

How things have changed:

1960s - My parents married having no debt as their education was free for them

1970s - Only my father needed to work to buy a house and pay the mortgage - he was on a lower than average wage (1st house was less than 2 years wages)

1980s - My education came free - no expense to my parents

1990s - My father took early retirement at 55 and went on to enjoy 20 years of traveling and open university study before he died (at a relatively early age for these days)

I met a young man recently who got himself a top degree at a very good university - barely gets more then minimum wage. When (if) he does start earning good money, he has to start to pay the massive debt back. Then he has to start looking for a house that will be 4 or 5 times a good salary. He wants to teach, he would be a very good teacher. But he would wave goodbye to ever owning a house if he did that.

I wouldn't be surprised if the younger generation decide they are not willing to pay for anyone to have 20 years retirement

[Ryeman]

I remember a 1970s Australian minister for science postulating on exactly how people would manage their increased leisure time.

 

Edited 24 August, 2017 by Ryeman

[S00perb]

1 minute ago, Ryeman said:

I remember a 1970s Australian minister for science postulating on exactly how people would manage the increased leisure time.

 

I am sure we were meant to be down to a 3 day week by now

[FUBAR]

11 hours ago, S00perb said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the younger generation decide they are not willing to pay for anyone to have 20 years retirement

I'd be more of the camp that, we all pay for and invest into our own state retirement throughout our working lives and that while funding at any given time may well come from live taxation, it's not that generation paying my way as I'd have already done so myself, but I do know what you mean, sucks big time though. :(  

The amount of millennials folk I know and see all the time seemingly thinking I'm a musician and must crack out a violin for them because they have built up massive student debts (not indicative of all obviously, but you know where I'm coming from)... It's ok though as many aren't having to pay them back, but earning and or scrounging enough to have the latest £700 smart phone in their pocket, the latest games console and £60-£80 a pop games as they come out, a massive big TV every few years, a new car on finance, go out every weekend, go on foreign holidays and still be so hard done by as they spiral further into their own uberly educated selves debt and an apparent inability to even add / subtract. The bank of mum and dad wee waster ones among them too, bug the living **** out of me. According to Wikipedia I fall into the category of a millennial (#FML ), but I with nothing holding me back from attending university should I have wished, saw it as a bit fruitless with a sea of degree laden folk chasing after a handful of jobs in their desired field. To be frankly honest, it would seem in the last 15 ish years glowingly that any retard can just bumble along with no direction or real academic qualifications to date and go to university and scrape by, it certainly isn't top heavy with the best and brightest of the generation. At some point my generation of hard done by lay about whining entitled morons with their apparent zombie apocalypse style immortality, despite being a generation of glutenous fatso's will be faced with deciding the ensuing generations fate, HA!   

[lol-lol]

21 hours ago, S00perb said:

.........I met a young man recently who got himself a top degree at a very good university - barely gets more then minimum wage. When (if) he does start earning good money, he has to start to pay the massive debt back. Then he has to start looking for a house that will be 4 or 5 times a good salary. He wants to teach, he would be a very good teacher. But he would wave goodbye to ever owning a house if he did that.

I wouldn't be surprised if the younger generation decide they are not willing to pay for anyone to have 20 years retirement

 

Financial arrangements seem to be so tilted towards oldies compared to the young ones.  After making a killing on property over the last twenty years, after the disaster of the property crash in the early and mid-nineties, having the benefit of a virtually free Degree and now massive tax benefit when feathering a pension nest compared to the opposite for today's youngsters ie £40-£50k Degree debt which is linked to an RPI+3% increasing capital debt, silly house prices and low wage growth meaning little disposable income.

 

Partial solution, maybe another house price fall like we have under the Cons in the nineties which looks to have already started and of course some transfer from oldies to young ones by parent's generosity but that is hardly a fair and structured was for society to operate.  

 

What a mess  of UK national finance, with its £2T debt, and a reliance on parental grace and favour rather than system of equality ie treating everyone the same on access to education.  Where is it heading I wonder?

 

    

Edited 25 August, 2017 by lol-lol

[Ryeman]

What about 'the hunt'.....remember it's all about priorities.

[BJM]

I am sick to death of hearing some of the younger generation bleating about house prices.

 

I bought my first house when I was 22, on a 25 year mortgage.

2 up 2 down, kitchen & bathroom Victorian terrace. No parking, tiny back yard / garden.

It cost 10 yes TEN times my annual salary.

The lenders refused to add in my then wife's salary.

The deposit was almost exactly the same as my annual salary.

 

Basically we saved up for the deposit.

We lived for 2 years in a grotty 1 bed flat in a HMO, sharing a bathroom.

No holidays for 3 years.

Sold a 12 bore shotgun left to me by my grandfather and my motorbike to put towards the deposit.

Bought a 16 year old banger for transport.

 

My daughter and her partner have a joint income of around £65,000 and moan about house prices.

They get little sympathy from us.

In the last two years they have bought a new car, had 4 weeks holiday in Australia, 2 weeks in Thailand, various short breaks away

plus all of the usual electronic toys.

 

Their argument is that they want to "do things" whilst they are still young enough to enjoy themselves.

Fine.

They have made that choice.

Just stop bleating about how unfair house prices are.

They were always similar in terms of comparison with income..

People just make different choices as to how they spend their money.

 

[Guest FurryFriend]

My wife and I are both retired. Neither of us was ever out of work, and also ran a few businesses. We paid all taxes due, and worked bloody hard all through our lives. 

But what infuriates us both is the creeping, increasing retirement age. 

It deprives younger people of jobs, and it's obviously  a cynical  ploy to hope that older people will die before they reach some ridiculous working age set by well heeled government toffs who have never known hardship in their pampered lives. 

Women should retire at 60. Men at 65. It worked for everybody.

But neither of us have any time for the layabout economy. People who, bluntly, want to do as little as possible throughout their lives, and then moan and whinge that they haven't got all the rewards that 99% of the population, probably everybody on these forums, get out and work for. 

 

[Guest FurryFriend]

1 minute ago, BJM said:

I am sick to death of hearing some of the younger generation bleating about house prices.

 

I bought my first house when I was 22, on a 25 year mortgage.

2 up 2 down, kitchen & bathroom Victorian terrace. No parking, tiny back yard / garden.

It cost 10 yes TEN times my annual salary.

The lenders refused to add in my then wife's salary.

The deposit was almost exactly the same as my annual salary.

 

Basically we saved up for the deposit.

We lived for 2 years in a grotty 1 bed flat in a HMO, sharing a bathroom.

No holidays for 3 years.

Sold a 12 bore shotgun left to me by my grandfather and my motorbike to put towards the deposit.

Bought a 16 year old banger for transport.

 

My daughter and her partner have a joint income of around £65,000 and moan about house prices.

They get little sympathy from us.

In the last two years they have bought a new car, had 4 weeks holiday in Australia, 2 weeks in Thailand, various short breaks away

plus all of the usual electronic toys.

 

Their argument is that they want to "do things" whilst they are still young enough to enjoy themselves.

Fine.

They have made that choice.

Just stop bleating about how unfair house prices are.

They were always similar in terms of comparison with income..

People just make different choices as to how they spend their money.

 

100 Percent RIGHT. Well said! 

[lfc958]

Being reasonably close to retirement and could have taken early, I started looking at the pension(s) I have approx 2 years ago with a 1 off free IFA conversation,  the advice was given my other pensions were Final Salary then leave them alone. 

My job at the time ( now redundant) was take it out and re invest as the company ( an American One) had setup 2 pension schemes, One where they match employees contribution ( I took) and one where absolute minimum contribution from employer was paid. They hoped and were right in most cases that employees took their preference of employer minimum contribution. However the schemes setup for both these have been so low risk that the pots while probably sustainable are quite poor and any benefits also low, the outcome being that  I am making arrangements to take out my portion and have it re invested in a slightly more riskier ( just ) to hopefully in future cover an annual draw down where any investments keeping a stable ( & hopefully a +ve) pot. Yes am not daft there will be years where this wont happen.

 

I have unfortunately been hit with the retirement age of 66 , and with all the talk / news / rumours around future of pensions am starting to feel that anyone retiring at the 65/66 age band will most likely be the last of those that can just about / comfortably retire and only work if they are getting bored or physically/ mentally incapable.

I tend to agree mostly with BJM about whinging youngsters and pensions, but , my distrust of todays news slanting towards generating reactions don't believe it is as prevelant as is made out.

It is their choice on how they spend their money, and unlike us close to retirement / just retired we chose to NOT - go solcialising anywhere near as much, buy new cars, have regular holidays abroad, we chose to use this money to get ourself property. My 1st house was 2up 2 down, toilet just about inside and relative to salary expensive.

Anyone who has got the ' Mind your own business' when asking these questions this can fall back on the very smug - I Told You