VRS Timing Chain Damage. Round 2

[thewheelsofsteel]

Hi all.

Well after less than a year since my failed timing chain tensioner and related damage it caused I thought those problems were over. It was all fixed by the dealer I bought the car from (I thought). All Genuine VW Parts (Latest tensioner) However I was getting a vibration again from the engine and very noticeable from about 2800/3000rpm. Worried it was timing chain issues again I Took it strait to the guys at autotechnica In Hull. Even though it was  5.30 and they were about to go home they told me to bring it around the back and stick it on the ramp. Andy the owner and Richard both tried to sus out were the vibration was coming from. They thought it might be the new turbo they fitted 3 weeks earlier (Due to failing. Another story). Suggested I do not drive it and leave it with them till they work out what's Wrong. So I left it with them and was kindly given a lift home by Richard. Three Days later Andy rang me to say they had removed the turbo and exhaust But nothing was wrong with those parts and they would do some more investigating . Well Today I got a phone call from them to say they had found the cause of the vibration and if possible could I come in so they could show me. What they had found and had never seen it happen before was one of the guide bolts had worked it's way out and was rubbing vibrating against the timing cover. Fortunately the bolt was not able to completely Drop out But was gradually gridding a hole in the timing cover. Lee who was doing the work told me that a couple of parts that should have been replaced when it first went pop were re-used. You will see in one of the photos some metal gauze that was found in the sump. That's the only largish piece he found in the sump and said it should be ok and they have changed the oil and filter as a precaution. Andy told me that although the chain has not lost tension the guide and tensioner and a few other parts should be replaced again . He said I was very lucky the bolt had not dropped out. Only other issue is what damage has been done to the guide bold thread on the engine block. This might need Helicoiling but as it's only torqued to 20nm it might be ok.

[thewheelsofsteel]

Just to add this is being fixed again under warranty

[rayx]

4 hours ago, thewheelsofsteel said:

You will see in one of the photos some metal gauze that was found in the sump. That's the only largish piece he found in the sump and said it should be ok and they have changed the oil and filter as a precaution.

 

They seem do not know well EA888 engines ... that piece is the screen, teared off the oil stainer (06H103081E) which is mounted in front of the non-return valve in bracket 06H103144J, latest revision 06H103144K.

 

Ask them to check, if the valve has metal cage. If not and made from plastic, buy new bracket as the plastic cage can break ... Bracket with metal cage valve can be reused without that oil stainer, I suggest to leave the residual ring of the stainer mounted as a "safety" holding the valve in bracket. Hope this info can help a bit (machine translated from original)

powertrain_2016_podzim_motor4.cs.en.pdf

Notice to p.10: Correct is "Holder (bracket) with plastic reducing valve must NOT be used back."

 

Yet to the plastic cage valve, service actions (Audi 15D6, Skoda 15D7, etc) taken a place few years ago, not sure about year of your Octi.

15D6 UPDATE - Camshaft Adjuster (LNVW).pdf

 

And let them check too the bearings and camshafts surface, when damaged, there is a high posibility of low oil pressure ... Just as here, which is bad

http://imgur.com/a/TBQTq

 

Edited 25 August, 2017 by rayx

[rayx]

5 hours ago, thewheelsofsteel said:

 

 

Yet, do not want to scare you, but they have not secured with bolt at least the chain sprocket 06H105209AT, can be very dangerous when it moves and not noticed ...

http://workshop-manuals.com/volkswagen/golf-mk6/power_unit/4-cylinder_injection_engine_(1.8_and_2.0_l_engine_chain_drive)/engine_cylinder_head_valve_gear/chain_drive/camshaft_timing_chain_exploded_view/

 

Always use sleeve -T10368- when fitting bolt for vibration damper to avoid damaging splines. When brain used, not necessary to use the sleeve, but the bolt is a MUST.

Now replaced by more sophisticated tools T10531/3 and T10531/1.

 

Edited 25 August, 2017 by rayx

[thewheelsofsteel]

Thanks rayx for the reply and info. I have that bracket at home with me and the timing cover and bolt. there replacing the bracket with a new one and told me there was a service bulletin about this so there onto it. Gauze filter looks like the plastic type. the surface on the bracket seems reasonably ok from what I can see but I'm no expert might be wrong, The lads at autotechnica no there stuff so I'm leaving it in there capable hands. They explained everything and said it will be sorted by the end of next week. All previous work by them has been superb. Can't fault them. 

 

Pictures are not the best

[rayx]

Well, from what I see on the first photo, bearing for the exhaust camshaft on the bracket, it´s "dead" Please make detailed photo of the intake camshaft bearing. And let them to check the camshafts, I guess will be not OK too ...

 

Concerning the valve in the bracket, can you make photo too? Can you see the steel ball in it?

 

Definitely, if only new bracket is going to be fitted, insist on they will measure the oil pressure on idle when engine is warm, allowed minimum is 1,2bar.

Edited 25 August, 2017 by rayx

[thewheelsofsteel]

yes the steel ball is still in place

[thewheelsofsteel]

[rayx]

Well, top halves of bearings do not look that bad, but this is logical. Could you make yet one photo of intake cam bearing, but the bottom half, same as done for exhaust here?

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/uploads/monthly_2017_08/20170825_085504.jpg.a72e11e1252209cfffb144ac4d88f2c4.jpg

 

Concerning valve, that is good, it´s not broken, but can´t say if it is plastic or already metal one. Well, if ends of both camshafts are OK, still make measurement of oil pressure after all work is done.

Technical product information 2024866_4.pdf

 

Broken strainer screen is unfortunately very common issue on EA888, therefore I would not fit new one back on bracket.

 

Edited 25 August, 2017 by rayx

[thewheelsofsteel]

[thewheelsofsteel]

The Car is in the garage so I do not have any more pictures of the cams. I will just have to wait to see what the results are and take it from there. But as this is a warranty claim it is going to cost me nothing and all work is guaranteed by the garage and car supplier. If it fails again they will have to sort it.

 

[thewheelsofsteel]

Hi. Just  quick update regarding my timing chain issues. Specialists rang today to tell me as rayx suggested that both cams need replacing due to being worn. this has added another big chunk of money to the warranty bill. If the cam bridge had been replaced on initial repair this situation might have not got so bad. He told me the repair bill is now in the 2k region. It's only a month ago the turbo was replaced. I'm just having no luck with this car. so glad I have a warranty. Thanks again to rayx for the heads up regarding the cams. 

[rayx]

Well, lucky you warranty will cover the costs. So both cams and bridge/bracket will be new, OK, but did they mention anything about cam bearings/seats in head? Hope are OK, but as supplied by same oil source as bridge, usualy some damage happen in head to. Ask them to check twice to be sure nothing missed. Do not want to repeat myself, when all work done, insist on oil pressure test on warm idling engine, this will make sure all around head get not damaged due to oil starvation.

[thewheelsofsteel]

yes he did say they will be checked upon strip down and will inform me if there is any issues. If I did not mention this before the work this time is being carried out by an award winning vw audi specialist garage and not the garage that I bought the car from like the first time. they have plenty of experience of the EA888 engine. I think they tried to save money by using the old cam bridge the first time around. The garage carrying out the work told me there was a service bulletin regarding replacing the bridge if the timing chain is replaced. once again thanks for the advice and info.