2011 1.2TSi DSG Oil Leak - head gasket gone?

[Breezy_Pete]

7 hours ago, Farley said:

is there a good reason for oil to be in this area?

Yes, it's essential,; to lubricate and cool all the bearings and moving parts in the engine head.

 

[Farley]

1 hour ago, Wino said:

Yes, it's essential,; to lubricate and cool all the bearings and moving parts in the engine head.

 

 

Thanks - you can tell my engine knowledge is limited!

[xman]

Just checked both our 1.2 tsi's (2011 and 2013) and that plug/washer is in fact a sunken plug with a torx head. You can just see it here to the left of the filter housing. Easy to access/tighten with a torx key. I'm inclined to think it may be the housing to head interface which is leaking. Maybe some ham fisted gorilla has been tightening filters. I've known then to be fitted ridiculously overtightened and needing a breaker bar to be removed.

 

Edited 15 September, 2017 by xman

[rum4mo]

Any VW, at least, car I have replaced the oil and filter early ie before first dealership service, has had a seriously tight filter!  On my 2000 VW Passat 4Motion with its 2.8 V6 petrol engine, I needed to buy a new filter tool, one of these vicious ones with the 3 square section legs/claws - that scared me a bit, but once I had started I needed to keep going until I had got it off - no convenient hex sectioned bit on the end of its filters!

[Rooted]

I like using Mahle Filters and not just because they are around £4.

Obviously not the Silver less messy ones that VW Group changed to, but easy on, easy off.

[rum4mo]

Yes, but in my case I was stuck with a large filter with sort of "gripper ribs" as that was what was fashionable at that time. Having a hex on the filters is brilliant, but I've a strange hunch that the latest 1.2TSI engine is back to being "hex less" - I've not been near that yet, just going by what I've seen from above, I don't mind being wrong there though. So that means that the "eco friendly" really old school filter elements have once again been consigned to the bin of history!

[Rooted]

VW went with the Mk2 Fabia vRS from the Black Oil Filters to the Silver (clean Green mean) ones,

there is another 'improvement' that turned out as an issue IMO as to speed of oil pumping up and around on starting the engines.

 

There was a while here with Monte Carlo Fabia having the wrong oil filters fitted, then the usual too tight, and the forgot to remove a seal before a filter getitng fitted with a new seal, so 2 on and a problem.

[xman]

My dealer kept using the oil filter from the early 1.4tsi (122 bhp) engine on the 1.2 tsi. They fitted but were the wrong one (only the last letter of the VAG part no is different).

 

The real problem though was the rattling cam chain design problem that took VAG 4+ years to solve. An early finger of blame was pointed at the rubber seal on the filter that sealed the the drain back channel when fitted. Advice was to make sure the filter was fitted to the correct torque, which my dealer at least seemed to interpret as "screw em up as tight as you can”. In actual fact overtightening distorts the seal and makes matters worse!

 

You can keep your black paper filters Ski, the silver filters from MANN (who also make the VW filters) use fully synthetic filter material and this gives them a long list of advantages.

 

https://www.mann-hummel.com/mann-filter/news/newsdetail/?tx_ttnews[tt_news]=701&cHash=96c849240a5cd362eabead9103a638d0

 

Using the correct cup tool (74mm X 14 flutes) makes removing the filter easily. They only cost about

£3

 

Edited 15 September, 2017 by xman
Bloody autocorrect!

[rum4mo]

I don't suppose that we should be surprised that Mann-Hummel do move things on and that their biggest customers including VW Group leave the filters as being the same as originally specified, it would cost VW Group extra cash to introduce a new part as normally businesses demand any new version of a part can only be supplied if it is cheaper and works better than the original, it will be the "cheaper" part that stops progress for legacy models.  Just the same as the current Pollen/ Pollen with carbon coated filters being in the real world superseded by the newer improved Frevious versions - which works for me as ECP sell the newer Frecious filters for a lot less money than VW Audi SEAT, in my case sells the carbon coated pollen filters, sorry but this plan is VW Group's loss as far as I am concerned.  Now you pointing out what the latest oil filters are all about could see me dumping my commitment to only ever use VW Group oil filters on my VW Group cars, sorry VW Group another opportunity to take my money gone!

 

I can understand why VW Group dropped the filter element concept if as said too many workshops messing up when replacing them, though it does take more time to change that type of filter, which begs the question "who's smart idea was that?" (time being money)

[Rooted]

xman, i am a firm believer when you have engines made of chocolate and that can burn oil and that the 2nd  biggest manufacturer in the world stick their head in the sand, 

do not only use the right oil for the job, which is likely not Long Life, and you do fixed services, change the filter at half the time you are keeping the oil in for when it is simply up top and you can do that.

No need for non drip filters if you are careful, and especially when the Manufacturers Spec Filter can be like the manufacturers spec oil, suspect.

Use what can be proven to work, especially when the manufacturer can not be 'simply clever' and resolve snagging problems, rather just drop an engine design another, and then have more snagging issues.

Vorsprung Durch Technik.  well it should be.

[Breezy_Pete]

@Farley, any news?

[xman]

Ski, your rant might be appropriate for the CAVE engine but as far as the CBZA/B 1.2tsi, my opinion is that it is a superb engine. Yes the camchain problem of the pre 2012 era is very annoying, but I picked up on it shortly after the first service. The BIG BIG problem I have is a dealer who refused for the entire warranty period to accept there was a problem. First they ignored it, then at the 2nd service they heard it and said its normal, they all do that. Stonewalled me when it comes to TPI's. Then pass it as healthy on the last day of warranty by just 1 or 2 mm. Even when I pay them to fix it, they cant even seal the sump back right. And this is just one of several major issues I've experienced over the years. I've resisted posting rants in the past in the belief, despite being annoyed, that remaining polite but firm can eventually lead to a happy conclusion. I have had a few pleasant surprises, but not enough to offset the negative experiences.

 

But we are way off topic , so lets get back with the OPs problem. We know his dealer is incompetent too, I'm keen to hear how the 2nd garage is doing.

Edited 15 September, 2017 by xman

[Rooted]

Not a rant, this is a forum for discussing or giving opinions.  if a rant then rant warnings are appropriate.

Ir was just a point on VW Group recommended consumables, OEM consumables, what they fit, and source & service Schedules & Guidelines, 

TPI's Service Campaigns or no Service campaigns, and that applies very much to 1.2, 1.4, 1.8 & 2.0 TSI's, and MANN Filters are good or can be, that does not automatically mean buying a VW/ Audi branded MANN filter is 'Simply Clever',  or NGK Spark Plugs, or Continental Tyres, or Castrol / Quantum.

(See 1.8 / 2.0 TSI failures, see the ongoing with many 1.2 TSI failings and it never ended with Euro 5 TSI's.)

 

Farley, 

on another subject. Not related to the oil leak.

?

Was your car part of the Service Campaign on the DSG, and was your car in for '34F5' to have the DSG's Mineral OIl changed to Synthetic & a Software Update?

http://master.skoda-auto.com/mini-apps/recall-actions 

Edited 16 September, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[xman]

Apologies SKI, I shouldn't have used the word rant, it was late at night. I just wanted to put my point across that the dealers inability or unwillingness to do their job right is often the larger problem we face.

[Farley]

Sorry for delay, the blanking plug and o-ring were replaced and the leak is no more!

 

Total bill from independent garage = £56, just a small saving on the £1005 quoted by the dealer for a head gasket replacement (and we may still have had the leak).

 

Hopefully it really was this simple to fix. But nit a huge bill if we discover further leaks in a short while.

I'm not clued up enough to follow some of the conversation above, but will try to learn.

 

Very happy with the independent garage who have been very helpful.

[Farley]

On 9/16/2017 at 07:42, Headinawayoffski said:

Farley, 

on another subject. Not related to the oil leak.

?

Was your car part of the Service Campaign on the DSG, and was your car in for '34F5' to have the DSG's Mineral OIl changed to Synthetic & a Software Update?

http://master.skoda-auto.com/mini-apps/recall-actions 

 

Not sure, I will ask the wife to check the service paperwork.

[Rooted]

A Service Desk person should be telling a customer when Software Updates or Service Campaign work is being done after all they might only find out a car performs different as they pull out onto the road from collecting the car from the dealership.

 

?

So did your car have a Silver Filter fitted, and is it 5w 30 FS Long Life oil the dealership uses for the servicing?

(Edit, i see on the picture it is a silver filter, pretty dirty, when was that new one fitted?)

Edited 18 September, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[xman]

Great result and adds to my long list of reasons why you should never trust the dealer.