Trusting the Driver Aids

[BlueclouduK]

Took the Octy to Manchester via Leeds last night and tried a couple of the driver aids.

 

It's a very weird sensation letting the car do some of the work.

 

Lane Assist

 

This is a definitely not just a lane departure warning system, at least on the L&K, it is a steering assist.

 

On a relatively straight section, I loosened my grip on the steering wheel and let the car drift towards the centre line. The steering wheel turned gently to the left and the car moved back to the centre of the lane.

 

On a piece of urban motorway, it felt as is the car was following the lane without any input from me. That felt very strange.

 

It is easy enough to override as I'm one of those people that doesn't always signal a lane change (ROSPA Advanced Driver Training) but one needs to be aware of that the steering input will vary when crossing a lane divider.

 

Adaptive Cruise Control 

 

I had a different version of this on my Citroën. The biggest difference is that the Octy applies the brakes. I wasn't sure at first as the Citroën system uses engine breaking. A quick glimpse in the driver's door mirror and I saw the roadworks' cones lit up all red. I've not been brave enough to let the system bring me to a complete stop but neither have I let the car use the emergency braking system.

 

High Beam Assist

 

For me, this is one of those things that I thought I wouldn't use. Ever. In actuality after just one run home at night, I am sold.  It's not perfect but it works really well. The response time is quick. The L&K has LED headlights and one can see the dipped light beam rising when the main beam comes on. The colour temperature must be around 6000K as the light is very white rather than the halogen yellow I been used to.

 

Still more gadgets and gizmos to explore - not tried parking assist - and I'm still trying to get used to the position of the cruise control lever. So far so good.

Edited 6 October, 2017 by BlueclouduK
Grammar

[S00perb]

Is your Citron petrol and Octy TDI? I ask because I find a TDI very bad at engine braking, so Skoda would have to use the brake.

I only have park assist on my L&K and its kind of nice to have, but it is only useful if you are aiming for the last space in the car park. It has to have a car both sides to work, so if you are like me, you go to an empty area of the car park. At the side of the road it will get you into a tight spot very well, but then you ar at the mercy of those you are parked next to and hope they don't bash you as they are extremely close.,

[MoggyTech]

Another ROSPA advanced driver here, I'd rather rely on driver input than a box of electronics built by the lowest bidder. 

[S00perb]

2 minutes ago, MoggyTech said:

Another ROSPA advanced driver here, I'd rather rely on driver input than a box of electronics built by the lowest bidder. 

Give it 5 years max and they will be the 'norm'

I am dreading the day I get hit by some self drive car. How will the insurance get sorted? Driver says it was the car, company says, no error in our system

 

[BlueclouduK]

32 minutes ago, S00perb said:

Is your Citron petrol and Octy TDI? I ask because I find a TDI very bad at engine braking, so Skoda would have to use the brake.

I only have park assist on my L&K and its kind of nice to have, but it is only useful if you are aiming for the last space in the car park. It has to have a car both sides to work, so if you are like me, you go to an empty area of the car park. At the side of the road it will get you into a tight spot very well, but then you ar at the mercy of those you are parked next to and hope they don't bash you as they are extremely close.,

 

Citroën was a 2.0 BlueHDi through a torque converter 'box. The engine braking was really good. When using the speed limiter, the car was pretty good at holding the set speed when going downhill. The system would change down a gear or two as necessary.

 

Octy is available currently as TDi only afaik.

Edited 6 October, 2017 by BlueclouduK

[KenONeill]

I'm not an "advanced driver". I am a software engineer, and I don't think I'd unreservedly trust any software I wrote!

[S00perb]

49 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

I'm not an "advanced driver". I am a software engineer, and I don't think I'd unreservedly trust any software I wrote!

Room full of software engineers asked:

"if you found out that the plane you are just about to take off in, relies on software that your software team produced, would you stay on board or get off before its too late"

Everyone but one states they would get off.

When questioned if he believed he had the best team, the lone guy states

"I know I would be safe if my team wrote the software - the plane would never get off the ground in the first place"

Edited 6 October, 2017 by S00perb

[WayTooTall]

1 hour ago, KenONeill said:

I'm not an "advanced driver". I am a software engineer, and I don't think I'd unreservedly trust any software I wrote!

 

I find I use all the above in my driving, but I wouldn't say I unreservedly trust them. I am prepared to override them if need be, and have done in the part, especially as ACC can give out when near a barrier or HBA has the high beams on, though there is a car in the distance.

 

Use them as assistants, but keep an eye on them

 

 

[BlueclouduK]

2 hours ago, S00perb said:

Give it 5 years max and they will be the 'norm'

I am dreading the day I get hit by some self drive car. How will the insurance get sorted? Driver says it was the car, company says, no error in our system

 

 

I've had a dashcam for 4 years. Saved me from any blame in one accident. Saved another lad when he got t-boned on the M8.

[threadbear]

I went from a Polo with cruise and full set of parking sensors to an Octavia with just rear parking sensors. I certainly don't miss the cruise and not having front sensors makes me a bit more careful. Working nights and a journey along A roads, high beam assist with LEDs would be nice. 

 

I feel that that a lot of the aids these days are de-skilling drivers and more reliant on their cars. 

[S00perb]

Going from one car with front sensors to one without them is very dangerous - I am going to push a wall over soon!

[roaddetective]

3 hours ago, MoggyTech said:

Another ROSPA advanced driver here, I'd rather rely on driver input than a box of electronics built by the lowest bidder. 

Well MoggyTech here is my opinion coming from an ADI, Rospa Gold, I.A.M.member and I.A.M. advanced Fleet trainer. I totally agree with you.

[themanwithnoaim]

I had a L & K Superb on 72 hour test drive & here are some my findings

 

HBA, very useful & even SWMBO agreed !!!

 

ACC, very good but, couldn't put up with the Mrs Bucket comments from SWMBO

 

LA, very good but, really needs white lines either side so, limited appeal, loadsa Mrs Bucket comments too

 

BSW very good, if a little unerring the first few times your wing mirrors start flashing at you

 

Had to fly down to Kent to pickup some wheel spacers then drop the car back to Guildford starting from Wokingham using ACC, LA & BSW all together. Very good for quickly eatting motorway miles with only both the flashing wing mirrors going at the same time causing any concern, note to self, you shouldn't undertake outside lane hoggers however much, they shouldn't be there.

[stever750]

On 06/10/2017 at 14:52, S00perb said:

Give it 5 years max and they will be the 'norm'

I am dreading the day I get hit by some self drive car. How will the insurance get sorted? Driver says it was the car, company says, no error in our system

 

That's not how autonomous vehicles will be owned and operated. The tech is already better than any rospa driver (and I'd challenge that as an anachronistuc attitude) it's legislation and infrastructure that is the big challenge. 

[Black_Sheep]

I love these threads...

 

Regardless of how well trained anyone is mistakes happen. As an aircraft engineer, as aircraft become more advanced, with automated control systems they are statistically safer - I would expect this trend to follow in the automotive sector.

 

The majority of aviation accidents are a result of human factors - pilot error, servicing error etc, not the software controlling them.

 

In the case of pilot error, I would argue that most are as highly skilled as any advanced driver, but I have still lost several colleagues due to such incidents over the years - we are not talking airline pilots here in case you are getting worried.

 

On a personal note, I consider myself a reasonable driver, but admit that I have been caught out previously and the ESP system probably prevented me from crashing my car on one occasion when I hit a patch of black ice.

[stever750]

32 minutes ago, Black_Sheep said:

I love these threads...

 

Regardless of how well trained anyone is mistakes happen. As an aircraft engineer, as aircraft become more advanced, with automated control systems they are statistically safer - I would expect this trend to follow in the automotive sector.

 

The majority of aviation accidents are a result of human factors - pilot error, servicing error etc, not the software controlling them.

 

In the case of pilot error, I would argue that most are as highly skilled as any advanced driver, but I have still lost several colleagues due to such incidents over the years - we are not talking airline pilots here in case you are getting worried.

 

On a personal note, I consider myself a reasonable driver, but admit that I have been caught out previously and the ESP system probably prevented me from crashing my car on one occasion when I hit a patch of black ice.

Exactly. There is a reason why planes fly on auto control and are connected to other aircraft. TCAS won't fly two planes into each other because they mistook an instruction, pilots do, and have done. What you cannot do is mix autonomous vehicles and human drivers, that probsbly would result in carnage. 

[S00perb]

Quote

 Google’s autonomous vehicles in California experienced 272 failures and would have crashed at least 13 times if their human test drivers had not intervened, according to a document filed by Google with the California Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV).
In 272 of those disengagements, the car detected a technology failure such as a communications breakdown, a strange sensor reading or a problem in a safety-critical system such as steering or braking.

Humans will always have bad days. But its humans that design, build and test componenets and write the software they use.

When they go wrong they are ALL human errors.

The question is: Will a self drive car be more reliable than a human?

The technology is there in theory and has the potential to be better than humans.

BUT

There is a massive difference between the air industry and the car industry

Unless we are prepared to spend a massive amount of money, a car is never going to go through the same level of checks as a plane, its never going to be serviced to the same level as a plane

When ONE car of a certain model goes wrong or is involved in an accident, that car model is never going to be 'grounded' and kept off the road until the cause has been investigated and root cause discovered.

Car manufacturers will cut corners, cover up and cheat.

How many times has the simple park assist not managed to do what it is designed to do?

How many components of a car fail regularly?

 

 

 

[stever750]

Absolute agree. The tech is possible, it's whether we choose to use it for cars. My job is partly centred around making manufacturers think more and better use quantitative measurement, but this needs a change in culture and behaviours that needs effort to change. But the science us there already, and perfectly usable