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The story of the famous DQ200 clutch slip...


krigl

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7 hours ago, AwaoffSki said:

I would not be asking if i knew, i never did extensive inquiries, i just talk to Master techs that do know of the issues, 

go on the training courses, read the TPI's, and fix the cars.

ŠKODA Vrchlabí plant_ 500,000th DQ 200 transmission - ŠKODA.mhtml

28 variants of the DQ200.

ŠKODA produces 1.5 millionth DQ 200 dual-clutch transmission at Vrchlabí plant - ŠKODA Storyboard.mhtml

 

My recent 'extensive' enquiries centered entirely around the clutch slip issue. Couldn't find any evidence of it being any sort of intrinsic fault. My dealer has only come across it after the clutch pack has worn out. That's why I'm looking. My local VW dealer says same. And it's the techs I talk to, some of whom I've known for 30 years. The Vrs that I worked on to replace the clutch pack was just to help out my nephew at his garage, but there's nothing he doesn't know or understand about DQ200. No clutch slip issues yet that he's come across, unless like the one I fixed where the clutch pack is totally worn out. None of that means the issue doesn't exist, just that over here it can't be any sort of big issue or it would be widely known about. On the whole, techs and owners just love the box and especially since 2015 it seems to be trouble free with just one update that I'm aware of to reduce electrical power consumption by the mechatronic unit in June 2016. In my home town we have quite a few Fabia estates with the 1.2TSI dsg units in them. That's both the MK2 and MK3 cars. All have very high mileage and as yet owners are not moaning about the box. Taxis are the first to moan as it really costs them money if there is a problem! 

 

Krigl have you had your gearbox pressure tested?

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Pressure tested? The mechatronics, the oil pump in mechatronics or the gear part of the box, which part?
I observed the pressures via the OBD11 and the pressure builds up to 60bar, then it slowly goes down to 40 bar and then the cycle repeats itself. this is no mater if it is changing gear or not, but in meantime, the clutch plate pressure varies upon the load of the engine during the same gear drive. All this seams normal to me unfortunately.

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Estate man

, Taxi drivers with a DQ200 are driving a 1.6 TDI are they not? 

A different thing really than the revvy TSI's,  plenty with those TDI / DQ 200 complaining on ones up to 2015.

 

Do you know of many Taxis with a 1.4TSI, 1.2TSI or 1.0 TSI with a 7speed Twin Dry Clutch DQ200.

Is that what the use in your town?

Edited by AwaoffSki
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AwayoffSki, no...most of the Fabia's in my town are petrol taxis with the DSG, both Mk2 and Mk3 cars. A good friend of mine runs his own taxi firm plus I know a couple of the owners who have had them from new without a single issue and both have in excess of 130,000 miles on them. They are owner drivers who I have followed carefully concerning both the engines and DSG's. The DSG's are better on fuel than the manual versions by quite some way on taxi work but not quite as good as the diesels but of course are cleaner. That's why some firms are now switching to petrol as they don't get charged to go into some cities if it's petrol. Don't know of any 1.0 or 1.4TSI engined taxis myself but of course they will be out there no doubt. 

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The DSG & DQ200 are great, super, fan dabi dozy, just amazing, trouble free.  we love them.

 

Only problem, those that have trouble, and there are posters here on Continental Europe with issues, 

and there are members that are in the UK that had issues, 

so the issue is just that Skoda / VW step up any accept that and do something about it.  as 'Simply Clever' as that.

 

No point being deaf, dumb and blind to the issues, no matter how few of the millions produced really have issues.

galileogalilei1.jpg

australians-bury-heads-in-sand-to-mock-government-climate-stance.jpg

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This attached photos that i did today with the obd11 live logging seem quite strange, what the actual boost does in the region when it drops, that is the point of a slip feelt. 

I have to put my original mods back on and try again to see if it is any better. 

 

There i trown a bone for further chewing and discussion... 

Screenshot_20180109-173534.png

Screenshot_20180109-173608.png

Screenshot_20180109-173619.png

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Well your last post doesn't apply to me AwayoffSki as I'm sure you know. I deal in fact and as an ex engineer I follow the trail and investigate. There is a tendency for some folks to rely on just what they read to get their information and forget about looking "out the window" to see what's really going on! The issue isn't whether there are problems with dq200, its "what issues" and "how many". In fact from your articles that you post links to one would think that the box was a total dead loss! When in fact in terms of actual problems encountered by owners world wide, there are few. Take the oil issue on the early MK2 dsg boxes, that was a precautionary measure and the actual problems caused by using the synthetic oil were few by comparison to the number of boxes produced at that time, and the change to mineral oil was designed to keep it that way. Other updates again were aimed at tuning out glitches, saving power etc. Before I ventured into the world of vag dsg I research this type of box extensively to the point I even watch a strip down and read up on the technical bulletins, spoke to owners and techs that have them etc. I could only conclude it's a very tough box with no actual intrinsic mechanical weaknesses. Yes I know some people have failures just like manual boxes fail, engines fail etc etc. But actual numbers from the millions of these dq200 boxes that have issues is remarkably few in spite of the "sensational" nature of many of the  articles linked to. Anyone who has an issue can be sorted. But it's inevitable that when selling cars some will need attention by techs and maybe input by the manufacturer. That's life. No need to keep going on about it, there's no actual conspiracy!

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The numbers of failures might well be a low percentage. 

But to those that own the faulty one the issue is lack of honest from VW Group.

World Wide recalls where Government Agencies scare them. and extended warranties where reduced sales would hit hardest.

 

The issues were resolved,. then more appeared and maybe finally the number faulty are dropping, 

being a fan boy is good and well, but maybe leave VW to be 3 monkeys and just thank your lucky starts that VW Group never rubbered you, 

leaving you thousands out of pocket with their 'known issues'.

 

Reason there are links is often because VW Group have had spokespeople spinning a story rather than releasing figures and apologies.

Volkswagen ‘DSG issue’ is over, transformation of aftersales services underway _ Motor Trader Car News.mhtml

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I'm no fan boy! Just a happy customer with a Fabia DSG. Remember we are discussing the DSG box here, not Vrs engine  troubles which fit the bill for everything  you are moaning about. I'm not aware of anyone being out of pocket by thousands of pound because of DSG issues. The Vrs, now that's something else and really was problematic.

Edited by Estate Man
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No we are not talking engines, Twinchargers, 1.2 TSI, 1.8 or 2.0 and the denial they get from VW.

Just the DQ200's.  

 

You will not be aware then because nobody told you, but plenty have not had out of warranty help with Clutch Packs or Mechatronic control uniits early demise.

So if you do not look or hear or see you might just miss things.

I am out of here, 

your extensive inquiries seem to be concentrated on others with DSG's without issue.

 

Maybe check out various other Briskoda sections, Yeti. Octavia & Superb, the similar threads are not uncommon.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/440233-skoda-fabia-dsg-gearbox-failure 

Edited by AwaoffSki
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I'm no novice to real world investigation into mechanical problems. I did it professionally for years. The one thing I did learn is leave no stone unturned. That means not getting a skewed view from just being a Google champion or sitting on sites like this (very good that it is) but getting out there speaking to the folks that run the cars, speaking to the designers where appropriate, the techs that service them along with the paperwork that goes with that, and stripping and fixing broken assemblies, looking at the history of the components etc. But speaking with owners with problems is paramount and hearing what they say. Assessing all the information which does include reading sites like this too. But there's the rub. When you actually look at the problems some folks complain of concerning the DSG's, they are often complaining of a non problem...for example the box is very jerky on take off! And there are many such posts on a range of subjects relating to so called dsg issues. Is that jerkiness a problem, no it isn't, it's just drivers with new cars getting used to the dsg system, yet owners often swear blind its a faulty box, go to the garage and then complain the garage isn't listening. Yet everyone on here gets the impression the dsg is a jerky box when it actually isn't. Again that's not to say there are some genuine issues that individuals suffer. I've read them all on here. But these do get addressed. The op's issue is not as yet flagged as a big problem as so few experience it. So Skoda will be noting it and doing some investigating through techs and their own technical people. It will no doubt be addressed once the exact problem is identified. What you see isn't always what is causing the issue and can take time to confirm and fix. 

  • Haha 1
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Estate man.... have you looked at the Danish vag-forum I posted earlier?

 

Have you look at the picture I have made from a vcds log file made from my car ? Year 2015

 

 

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13 hours ago, krigl said:

Pressure tested? The mechatronics, the oil pump in mechatronics or the gear part of the box, which part?
I observed the pressures via the OBD11 and the pressure builds up to 60bar, then it slowly goes down to 40 bar and then the cycle repeats itself. this is no mater if it is changing gear or not, but in meantime, the clutch plate pressure varies upon the load of the engine during the same gear drive. All this seams normal to me unfortunately.

 

You need a full spectrum pressure test hooked up to their diagnostic machine. It costs normally, so make sure who is paying. 

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4 minutes ago, MadsB said:

Estate man.... have you looked at the Danish vag-forum I posted earlier?

 

Have you look at the picture I have made from a vcds log file made from my car ? Year 2015

 

 

 

Hello Mads, so sorry...I have seen the site you link to but haven't seen your data. I'm having to limit how long I am looking at my screen due to some serious eye & brain issues for which I am having surgery for tomorrow. So I'll be out of action for weeks and maybe months. Won't be able to use a computer or do much else for a while. Bye for now and I hope you get the issue sorted.

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I am doing a little quick survay :D
What oil is in your engines with DSG.
Write down if you have problems with dsg or not, oil brand and weight and any other signs on bottle.

And only write if you are 100% sure what is in the engine.

 

Example:

DSG problems: yes, Shell Helix HX7 10W-40

 

Thank you.

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Problem is, that I am strugling with my graphs of boost, why it behaves this way, this is from this morning... I se a pressure drop on requested on the intake manifold and am wondering what causes this... 

The throttle valve is open constantly during this time. 

Screenshot_20180110-080625.png

Screenshot_20180110-080648.png

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Having same slip problems. Summer/heat doesnt remove the problem, slips all the time. Not undrivable, but clearly something is off. Dealer will change mechatronic unit, lets see what happens.

 

fabia 1.2tsi dsg my2017. 18k now, problem started when about 5000-7500km was driven.

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  • 1 month later...
On 13.1.2018 at 17:20, fabiamc said:

Having same slip problems. Summer/heat doesnt remove the problem, slips all the time. Not undrivable, but clearly something is off. Dealer will change mechatronic unit, lets see what happens.

 

fabia 1.2tsi dsg my2017. 18k now, problem started when about 5000-7500km was driven.

Didnt help.

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The same slip issue here as well. Early my2016, built June 2015. Had the car for about two months, done 29 000 km now. Will take it to the dealer and let them have a look.

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1 hour ago, krigl said:

Just one word, finaly found a dealer near me, TVS Engineering DSG tune. Stage 2+.

 

If I had a chance, I would do it from the day that I drowe the car from dealer's door.

So you have that on your car now? No slipping?

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The clutches were so damaged with OEM SW, that it takes some time to heal the wounds, but from the minute I driven away with the TVS tune, i noticed a drastic elimination in slips. Lets say from 250rpm slips to 25-50rpm slips, and it is geting better, but I have it only for a weak now. 

The tune also changes the shift pints, so the drive is smoother, no engine lurking any more. And also the car now also has 1st gear, previously it shifted right to second. Economy is the same for now. 

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