P7s in the wet

[TerryMcK]

As standard fit the P7s fitted to my 220 are rubbish in the wet when starting from a standstill. Even when it is moderately damp they still spin. The car has now only done around 900miles so the tyres are suitably scuffed.

It is fine in comfort mode though so no flying starts in the wet. Should have got a 4x4 280 

When they wear out I think I'll go to Bridgestones or Michelins. I have 19" rims. 

Anybody else concur?

[Gizmo]

Yes they are quite poor pulling away, although 505Nm doesn’t help

(but even with the std 400Nm they were not great)

[MartiniB]

solved by install bigger tires

Michelin Primacy 3 225/55r17 (+1.5% in diameter)

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/378824-low-frequency-boom-in-cabin/?page=3&tab=comments#comment-4886031

 

and 034 Motorsport Dogbone insert

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/434108-034-aluminium-dogmount-insert/

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/394820-the-220ps-experiences-questions-answers-thread/?do=findComment&comment=4896859

 

P7 blew up

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/434028-tire-pressure-monitoring-system/?tab=comments#comment-4884695

 

[Ashmount]

On 24/10/2017 at 11:47, TerryMcK said:

As standard fit the P7s fitted to my 220 are rubbish in the wet when starting from a standstill. Even when it is moderately damp they still spin. The car has now only done around 900miles so the tyres are suitably scuffed.

It is fine in comfort mode though so no flying starts in the wet. Should have got a 4x4 280 

When they wear out I think I'll go to Bridgestones or Michelins. I have 19" rims. 

Anybody else concur?

Totally agree. The one big disappointment on the car. I got mine with 3000 miles. Never had Pirellis; always fitted Conti Sport Contact 5s to my Mk II. Though Pirelli's were a cut above.

Couldn't believe the wheel spin taking off on a damp road, admittedly in Sport mode. I actually thought I had a brake binding and took it back to the dealer to check.

I'm dreading winter and icy weather, even in normal mode. Will be glad when I can change them.

[simhub]

Can anyone comment after changing to different tyres?  I wonder if some of the difficulty pulling away is just the weird throttle mapping that gives you nothing...nothing...too much.

[dg360]

I got shut of my P7's after 2k miles.  They are awful.  Pirelli describe the cinturato as a 'green performance summer tyre'. 

Something I'm currently experimenting with is the familiar problem of a banging when the wheels slip.  The standard solution on here is to fit the aluminium dogbone insert. 

I definitely had this issue.  Horrible thumping when pulling away in a spirited fashion. 

I've been trying to recreate it since getting rid of the P7's.  I can't seem to get it now, however hard I try.  Perhaps part of the issue is the way that traction is lost by the P7s.  I'll continue to experiment....

 

[TerryMcK]

3 hours ago, dg360 said:

I got shut of my P7's after 2k miles.  They are awful.  Pirelli describe the cinturato as a 'green performance summer tyre'. 

Something I'm currently experimenting with is the familiar problem of a banging when the wheels slip.  The standard solution on here is to fit the aluminium dogbone insert. 

I definitely had this issue.  Horrible thumping when pulling away in a spirited fashion. 

I've been trying to recreate it since getting rid of the P7's.  I can't seem to get it now, however hard I try.  Perhaps part of the issue is the way that traction is lost by the P7s.  I'll continue to experiment....

 

What have you replaced them with?

[Goblin]

Could it be a Pirelli thing in general? I've noticed the thumping if I get wheel spin (notable in a straight line), and I'm running Pirelli Sottozeros on mine

[rytmask]

Yep, same experience here as well. Stock P7s are really crap and NOISY. Night and day with Michelins (ALPIN 5 on mine).

 

I'd also recommend having a look at newer Crossclimate+. Quite, good summer performance and good enough winter performance.

[dg360]

11 hours ago, TerryMcK said:

What have you replaced them with?

Crossclimate+

[penguin17]

The P7's are pants.  I binned mine after 12k miles and went with Vredestein Quatrac 5's (all season) and after a few hundred miles they are noticeably better in all respects.  Unfortunately Michelin don't make CrossClimates in R19 otherwise I would have liked those.  I've used GY EfficientGrip Performance in the past and that was a much better tyre than the eco warrior naming would suggest.  Easily good enough to cope with 230ps through the front wheels, very quiet and wear rate was very good.  I would rate them on par with GY Eagle's (but quieter and better longevity)

Edited 5 January, 2018 by penguin17

[RGKTSi]

I have 19" on my Superb 280 and P7's but I think the 4 wheel drive masks the issue people are experiencing here.  They feel good to me and always happy to press on.  Seem very good in the dry, not seen any issues in the wet.  In France last Summer due to traffic coming out of Le Havre on the way back from Brittany to Calais, it was seriously raining hard, I should have backed the speed off to 60mph or less but kept pressing on at 80mph as no traffic round at this point and they seemed planted to me.  Car was heavy with luggage, wife and 2 children, maybe the additional weight helped.  They are quite noisy on the concrete sections of the M25 where I live though.  That's a bit annoying.  sticking with them until I wear them out than will probably change to another brand.

 

First car with Pirelli tyres so nothing to judge it against.  Will look at something sporty from Vredstein or Michelin (or Continental) as always been very happy with these 3 manufacturers tyres.

 

Interesting @Ashmountnot liked them with a 4 wheel drive car either.

[xman]

This reminds me of 1974 and Pirellis fitted to a 1972 Granada (as in The Sweeny). Supposedly top tyre then, but in hot summer abroad, spinning on take off, and squealing/sliding on corners (albeit controllably)....cue music....

 

 

Left me with a "meh" opinion of Pirelli.

 

2.5litre V6 120bhp, rusted to an early grave in a little over 6 years.....

Edited 6 January, 2018 by xman

[dg360]

The 220 and 280 share a peak torque figure. So in terms of work the tyres are asked to do, the 280 makes their life a lot easier with 4 wheel drive.

I think it's something to do with the way they lose traction. The P7 seems to break away suddenly whereas other tyres might be more progressive.  Of course in the 280, the rear wheel are brought in almost immediately when the fronts start to slip.

[Ashmount]

1 hour ago, RGKTSi said:

Interesting @Ashmountnot liked them with a 4 wheel drive car either.

My Sportline with P7s is two wheel drive. : )

I find the P7s give good grip in both wet and dry and stop quickly on braking. My only niggles are the wheel spin taking off at a right turn on wet roads and they can be noisy on some surfaces.

My Mk II was 4wd on Conti 5s and never missed a beat. I guess I’m missing that extra traction on the Sportline, which I just took for granted before.

I recoded my Superb with OBDeleven to the Audi pedal and it made the wheel spin worse so back to the Skoda pedal now. Oddly I don’t find the lag as bad as I first did. Perhaps just getting used to it.

 

[RGKTSi]

4 minutes ago, Ashmount said:

My Sportline with P7s is two wheel drive. : )

I find the P7s give good grip in both wet and dry and stop quickly on braking. My only niggles are the wheel spin taking off at a right turn on wet roads and they can be noisy on some surfaces.

My Mk II was 4wd on Conti 5s and never missed a beat. I guess I’m missing that extra traction on the Sportline, which I just took for granted before.

I recoded my Superb with OBDeleven to the Audi pedal and it made the wheel spin worse so back to the Skoda pedal now. Oddly I don’t find the lag as bad as I first did. Perhaps just getting used to it.

 

My apologies I miss read the car you had, silly boy

Previous car was a 2 with 4 wheel drive, new car 3 with the 190TDi engine and front drive only.  Maybe the P7 is not the greatest tyre in the wet pulling away, the 190TDi engine sticks out a serious amount of torque and front wheel drive I do wonder if any tyre will cope to be honest.  @Gizmohas mentioned this before. Maybe the pulling power of the 190 engine best suited to 4 wheel drive.  Certainly with my 280 I can drop into sport and pull very sharply away in the wet or from junction and it just goes no wheelspin/drama or anything, although more power much less torque. You diesel boys have way to much punch from your engine not like us woosey petrol lads

[Ashmount]

Diesel...a lot of people say they don’t find much difference between 150 and 190. I must say I do. I’m constantly checking the speedo. As you say more wellie than maybe I need.

I’m attracted to the 220 TSI tho. I always buy a pre reg demonstrator, usually one the dealer principal is driving.  The 190 is plenty powerful, but I find it a bit rough at low revs with a fair amount of road vibration under hard acceleration, but to what degree that’s to do with 19” wheels and P7s or transmission vibration I’m not sure.

I’d probably kill myself in a 280...

[RGKTSi]

45 minutes ago, Ashmount said:

Diesel...a lot of people say they don’t find much difference between 150 and 190. I must say I do. I’m constantly checking the speedo. As you say more wellie than maybe I need.

I’m attracted to the 220 TSI tho. I always buy a pre reg demonstrator, usually one the dealer principal is driving.  The 190 is plenty powerful, but I find it a bit rough at low revs with a fair amount of road vibration under hard acceleration, but to what degree that’s to do with 19” wheels and P7s or transmission vibration I’m not sure.

I’d probably kill myself in a 280...

The 190 is a fantastic engine no question, effortless performance.  I don't need a diesel.  But they are a bit rough at low revs as you say.  And the power and torque does rather come in with a bit of a rush which can overwhelm the tyres any how.  Petrol's are much much smoother, both the 220 and the 280 are great and are very fast in their own right.  

[El Dingo]

The P7's are truly terrible in the cold/wet.  They were OK-ish in the summer and I can't say too noisy but right now, when pulling away even under quite gentle acceleration, I get one or both wheels lose grip.

And the 'bang' if you happen to accelerate over an expansion joint even in the dry is pretty disturbing.

IMHO these tyres are not fit for purpose in Northern Europe.

Then I remembered how I suffered back in 2007 with poor grip and noisy tyres in my new Volvo V50.  Guess what?  Pirelli P7's

[dg360]

I did some more "testing" with the cross climates.  Temperature outside was about 3c and a bit damp

In a straight line with launch control - wheel spin, no banging 

In a straight line just stomping on the accelerator in S - wheel spin,  no banging

Turning out of a junction (left) hard on the accelerator - wheels spin, slight banging

 

It seems that most of the problem, for me at least, has been resolved by replacing the tyres.  Hoofing it whilst turning out of a junction is pretty unusual and not a great idea anyway.

 

(all tests done on private roads with no other traffic around)

[TerryMcK]

Good tests dg

P7s tested in similar conditions are a nightmare hence my reason for starting the thread.

[Ashmount]

3 hours ago, dg360 said:

Hoofing it whilst turning out of a junction is pretty unusual and not a great idea anyway.

Unfortunately, the roads people (a dedicated agency in NI, not Local Authority) decided to solve a light crossroads traffic problem at busy times by building a monster roundabout, far bigger than necessary about 500yds from my house junction. It is so big that you lose sight of oncoming traffic as they navigate it, so you can look right and see no traffic and start a right turn only to see some eejit bearing down on you who wasn't there seconds before. Consequently that right turn is a bit of a gamble. My old MK II was so predictable that I could make these little dashes without bother. First time in the 190 on a damp road and apart from spinning the wheels like crazy the oomph! as they catch almost landed me in the ditch across the road. Spinning wheels is naff at the best of times, but in your 60s...sad  

First time I've ever looked forward to tyres wearing out. However, without 'hoofing' I find the P7s have good grip and braking in both wet and dry in a straight line.

I think that should be a new designation 'hoof-proof tyres' 

Speaking of straight lines and completely OT, but I test drove a Merc C Class sporty wagon about 8 years ago and the salesman took me out some country roads for a test drive. He was talking about safety features when he said "watch this" suddenly accelerated (hoofed) to around 75mph on a straight road threw his arms up in the air off the steering wheel, as if he was in a bank hold-up and slammed on the brakes. The car squealed to a halt in  (quite a long) straight line which I think was the point of this heart stopper. I'll not record the next few minutes exchange between us, but afterwards it was very quiet in the car on run back to the garage.

[dg360]

Nothing sensible ever starts with "Watch this!".  Also related - "Hold my beer..."

[Rooted]

My son was buying a Merc CLA 45 AMG and the salesperson took him and me for a run on a damp cold day.

So the bampot is trying to show off and after a few miles says they are even good if you switch off the traction controls, 

and he did, nearly loosing it at the first bend.

So me and son says nothing, he is in the front me in the rear, and as we are turning to head back i ask can i drive please.

Sure sir, just need to go back and we can get your signature,

and then the crap about i am sure you will be OK with your insurance, but i can not let your son drive crap, him being the buyer,

 

So back we go, son has coffee, ARNOLD CLARK / MERCEDES Salesperson hands me the keys, and off we set, & i take it easy a for a mile, 

and then said nice, lets see how it is with traction control all on,

and he flapping like a little girl. Shouting to stop, and i saying shut your gob you Pen!s. Scream if you want to go faster.

Little plonker near filled his pants threatening me as i showed that the car went quite well round corners.

So i parked it at the disabled bay at the door and said thanks but it was a bit slow did you want to maybe get the S-class ready....

 

Was a bit like this.

 

Edited 10 January, 2018 by AwaoffSki

[Goblin]

Drove my mate's Passat today for a good distance (2009 115HP TDI), and that had 225/R17s on it, yep, Pirelli P7. It was a bloody nightmare. Cold, damp and muddy roads grip was limited at best. I was slowing down for a roundabout which had completely faded, so I had to brake a bit harder but nothing that you would expect to trigger the ABS. Nope, brake pedal was going mental underfoot. Again, coming around a bend gradually putting the power in onto a motorway slip road, TC light flashing at me. And then again, pulling away from lights carefully on a cold, damp road... yep, broke traction and plenty of horrible banging.

 

I normally enjoy driving other people's cars no matter what, as it's just something a bit different from the norm. Not this one though, couldn't wait to give it back! And I think when I'm due to go from my winters back to summers, I'll be considering getting shut of the P7s too. I recall my last car ('12 Toyota Avensis tourer) came with them, and they were bloody crap, but I assumed that was because they had 15k on them and owned by a company car driver, so I just thought not much care had been taken of them. I've only driven my Superb 5 miles on the P7s, and it was dry. So can't really comment on how it is with them.