question on fabia diesel

[bollard]

we were just about to buy a polo 2015 21 k miles for £10  but i have hesitated after reading about various problems people were having on the vw owners forum

 

various glitches with warning lights, air con and engine defects - is the fabia diesel the same i wonder.

 

do you think the fabia is any different?

Edited 17 November, 2017 by bollard

[vc-10]

For a tenner I'd jump at it! 

 

But yeah, the 1.4 TDI in the Polo is the exact same engine as the 1.4 TDI in the Fabia. There have been some problems I know with this engine, it doesn't seem to be as reliable as the 1.2 TDI it replaced. But a 2015 car will still be in warranty for now.

[bollard]

53 minutes ago, vc-10 said:

For a tenner I'd jump at it! 

 

But yeah, the 1.4 TDI in the Polo is the exact same engine as the 1.4 TDI in the Fabia. There have been some problems I know with this engine, it doesn't seem to be as reliable as the 1.2 TDI it replaced. But a 2015 car will still be in warranty for now.

 

sorry, that's how screwed up i'm getting, £10K of course!

 

you reckon a petrol motor would be a better bet?

 

a mechanic we go to said they had a number of the 1.2 petrol engines in for repairs

 

i don't know whether he meant an earlier design or not, do you know whether the current 1.2 is vw or not please?

Edited 17 November, 2017 by bollard
addition

[Feraz]

the 1.8 TSI Polo GTI ain't far off from £10k 

 

My bad didn't realise they were Cat D ones

Edited 17 November, 2017 by Feraz

[vc-10]

I've heard nothing bad about the current 1.0 or the 1.2 TSI engines. The 1.2 TSI 90, which is the more common one in the Polo, is the engine I have in my Fabia and it's smooth, efficient, and has a fair bit more go than the 1.4 TDI 75 that you're probably looking at. 

 

There are 2 versions of the 1.2 TSI engine. The first generation has a chain-driven cam, and there were problems with the tensioners. I'm presuming this is the engine your mechanic is talking about- they were also found in the Mk.6 Golf and similar VAG products around the time. The second generation has a belt, but is generally much more reliable, and is more efficient. I'm averaging around 45 mpg, and I do a lot of city driving. 

 

The old version was produced from around 2010 to 2014, and in the Polo was only available with 105 PS and a 6-speed manual, in top-spec SEL and R-Line cars. When the Polo was facelifted in 2014, the new engine was introduced, in 2 states of tune- 90 and 110 PS. The new engines also have the advantage of having start/stop (although some older ones do, just not in Polos), and they're all £20 tax (until this year, anyway). With the Fabia, the old engines were in the facelift Mk.2 Fabia, and the new engines in the Mk.3. 

 

If you're not doing many miles, a diesel doesn't make sense anyway. City driving in particular clogs the DPF, which then burns fuel to clean itself, negating the MPG advantages. The new petrol engines are fantastic. 

[bollard]

thanks VC - very helpful, much appreciated.

[Recretos]

The last versions of the 1.2 TSi's, EA211, EU6 (CJZ), that is sadly going out, is one of the most well put together engines in its rank. Unlike the earlier versions (EA111), it had most of the bad stuff fixed along the way. Snd now when most bad stuff is finally fixed, its going out of active production, or has already, Im not sure. It is a very happy to rev engine, that has a lot, if not the most of tuning potential for its class as a small displacement I4, family car engine.

I am glad I own one of the last ones, before its fully replaced with the 1.0l 3-pots, which I read and heard are also looking promising. 

 

Some of the cool features of the last EA211 1.2 TSi:

 

-Piston cooling oil jet,

-Forged steel crankshaft,

-Die-cast Aluminium alloy pistons

-Variable valve timing (intake camshaft)

-16 valve technology

-Open deck cast aluminium block

-Oil separator (kind of a stock oil catch can) for crankcase breather system, reducing carbon buildup.

-Dual circuit cooling system

-Air->water charge air cooling system

-Electric wastegate control

-Direct injection with a 5-point injector

-High pressure fuel rail capable of 120-200 bars, so it doesnt bottleneck tuning capabilities

-very capable ECU, Bosch Motronic MED 17.5.21, the same as in the 1.4 TSi, meaning there is room for tuning of the 1.2 TSi as far as engine controls go. 

 

Its quite a package, especially if you are into modifiying/tuning. Its almost an overkill as a package for the stock map 90hp, and tho 110hp gives it a little bit more justice, its still not enough for what this engine can handle.  Transmission is another story tho.. 

Edited 17 November, 2017 by Recretos

[bollard]

 

bought an ex demo skoda fabia 1.2 - 90 SE  2017 today with 4K miles for £10.7K today

 

 

i know that they are now discontinued but that's a saving of about £2K off the then new price

 

 

- thanks for all your help

 

Edited 18 November, 2017 by bollard

[Damo]

Congrats on the purchase

 

I’d have sold you my 2017 Colour Edition with 2500 miles on for that though 

[bollard]

4 minutes ago, Damo said:

Congrats on the purchase

 

I’d have sold you my 2017 Colour Edition with 2500 miles on for that though 

 

oh dear - but i live down oxford way.

 

we tested a similar vw polo, the drive/visibility was better on the fabia imo -  plus i think the fabia is more distinctive somehow.

[bigjohn]

On 11/17/2017 at 16:09, bollard said:

 

 

a mechanic we go to said they had a number of the 1.2 petrol engines in for repairs

 

 

Lots of different versions of the 1.2

 

The later cam belt EA211 1.2 tsi 16v engine is great - which £10k should buy now?

 

Avoid the non turbo 3cylinder 1.2 engine and possibly the earlier cam chain 1.2 EA111 tsi  8 valve engine (post 2012 much better though, or versions that have had a mod applied)

 

 

[EDIT] The version you have bought should have the latest (and greatest) engine

 

Enjoy tsi motoring. Pretty good power and good economy.

 

 

 

Edited 18 November, 2017 by bigjohn

[bollard]

thanks john

 

strange thing - we started the hunt for a car 6 mths ago and we've been to a few different dealers and tried different models and eventually come back to the fabia

 

 

[peter3197]

I don't think you will regret your purchase. I love my 1.2 90, quick enough and good consumption.

[bollard]

21 minutes ago, peter3197 said:

I don't think you will regret your purchase. I love my 1.2 90, quick enough and good consumption.

 

 thanks peter, the fabia definitely felt perkier than the vw polo 1.2 90, how odd is that.

Edited 18 November, 2017 by bollard

[Rooted]

They were the latest and greatest engines, so much so that they are discontinued, dropped, no more replaced by 3 cylinder 1.0TSI's.

So cherish the greatest and best and maybe have on Fixed Servicing and since that no need for Long Life oil, just change to 5w 40 FS VW502 00 at the first service.

that might give a longer lived engine.

http://volkswagen.co.uk/owners/servicing/regimes 

[AGFalco]

I came from a bigger sized Turbo Diesel engine in a bigger car when I got my Fabia 1.2 TSI 90.

I was expecting lower fuel consumption and slower performance.

 

The fuel consumption 'now run in' during the last 6 months has been almost as good at above 60 MPG.

It is dropping now it is getting colder but still better than I was expecting.

 

The performance is much better, good pick up from lower in the rev range, much better at higher revs.

A very sweet engine indeed, lovely flexibility and the bonus of being quiet as well.

 

I have had my service intervals changed to fixed as I keep my car's for a long time.

The last car I sold at 13 years old, had from new, everything still worked on the car when I sold it.

 

Thanks AG Falco

[Recretos]

1 hour ago, Headinawayoffski said:

 

So cherish the greatest and best and maybe have on Fixed Servicing and since that no need for Long Life oil, just change to 5w 40 FS VW502 00 at the first service.

http://volkswagen.co.uk/owners/servicing/regimes 

 

I have put mine on 15.000km (not miles) interval or 1 year, what comes first. 10.000km is too little, since I am now at 8800km and the oil is just slowly getting darker, so it has enough life in it, and 20.000km is too much if you want to keep the car for many years at peak performance. 

Tho the oil I will be using is Castrol 5w-30. The 30 grade is for the oil at operating temperature. If it were a naturally aspirated engine, I would recommend a 5w-40, but for the turbo TSi I am going for 5w-30 (or 0w-30 up further north), because the oil will flow a little bit better than the 40 grade (30 will be thinner) at operating temperature, not buy that much, but enough that it will also flow better in the small oil lines around the turbo, keeping it well lubricated and also cooling it. 

And a bit thinner oil will also benefit to the piston cooling oil jets, where its always easy to "spray" a bit thinner oil.

And in the same time required for the the 5w-40 to get from cold to 40 grade viscosity, the 5w-30 will already be at the 30 grade viscosity, which means that it can reach the 40 grade viscosity faster than 5w-40, which in the colder winter months can make a difference in wear accumulated over many years. It also means that the in the colder months, the 30 grade will flow better a bit sooner than the 40 grade, around the turbo, prolonging its life.

 

The problem might be if your engine would drink oil above normal levels. Then I would recommend using 5w-40 grade over 5w-30.

 

The 1.2 TSi has a duocentric oil pump, driven directly by the crankshaft, which keeps the oil circuit regulated at the constant pressure of 3.5bar from 1400rpm onwards across the rev range. At also features a stock oil cooler, which is cooled by the primary cooling circuit.

Edited 18 November, 2017 by Recretos

[bollard]

15K km equals roughly 10 miles

 

thanks for that, much appreciated.

[Rooted]

VW Group recommend Castrol 5w 30 FS Long Life,

VW Group are never admitting to TSI failures, 1.2, 1.4, 1.8, 2.0 TSI's Euro 4, Euro 5, 

Oil Drinkers, Chain Tensioner Issues, Bore Wash, Burned Valves.

 

See Pinned Threads, Mk2 Octavia, Superb, Fabia & Yeti. These failures are not some internet myth, or overblown online, 

VW Group would like you to believe that.

 

Not Only Twinchargers have these problems shown in the link.

Engines discontinued, just like the Great 1.2 TSI Euro 6, short lived production run, ten of thousands produced, time will tell.

http://www.revotechnik.com/support/technical/14tsi-twincharger-engine-issues 

 

 

Vorsprung Durch Technik,   VW Build some great engines and some lemons and care about sales, leasing and Fleet. Trust their recommendations at your pearl.

They are proven liars and cheats.

Edited 18 November, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[Recretos]

Not sure where this came from now, but am I not going for the 5w-30 because of the VW recommendations. I didnt even knew about what they recommend, because I dont care much, except for the oil standard (502). I was writing from a more technical perspective, since I rather pick my own grade, which happens to be what they reccomend I see. 

 

And you cant really blame the oil grade for engine problems, but poor engieneering.  You can use even 10w-60 if you like,but you have to consider engine tolerances, clearence and some general mechanics/features.

Edited 18 November, 2017 by Recretos

[Rooted]

The thing is that VW502 00 was the recommended spec as engines were introduced before changing to VW 504 00 with Euro4's and Euro 5's.

VW502 00 perfectly good for Fixed Servicing and giving no excuse for VW Group, VW,Audi, SEAT, Skoda to invalidate a warranty.

So picking and choosing oil is not safe for all, 

but then Long Life oil can mean short lived TSI's even when not long interval serviced, each to their own. 

 

This was Euro 5's.  We will see in the future how 1.0TSI's do on 5w 30 FS LL.  

As it is there are more recommendation on using 0w 30 FS LL,. but that has a lot to do with attempting to have the fuel usage 

near the Published EU Test figures.

Toyota did that back in 2011 when the Euro 5 engines using 5w 30 were getting terrible fuel economy.

(Ford have a bit of growing issues with the 1.0 Litre engines out of 3 year warranty and 'they' are giving a nod and a wink to just repair them 3-5 year old. )Sssh nod and wink to the techs, and those that are not supposed to upset owners, let them get the crap engineering in some cases sorted so at least they get 5 years out of their vehicle.

 

Edited 18 November, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[bigjohn]

1 hour ago, Recretos said:

 

I have put mine on 15.000km (not miles) interval or 1 year, what comes first. 10.000km is too little, since I am now at 8800km and the oil is just slowly getting darker, so it has enough life in it, and 20.000km is too much if you want to keep the car for many years at peak performance. 

 

 

Yup,

 

I've also had my previous gen tsi (EA111 1.4 tsi 16v) - in a Superb II) set to 10,000 mile service intervals and also see the oil getting darker towards the end of each service interval. I think long life servicing would be bad news for this type of engine. My previous gen also has a timing chain (at 2014 one of the last ones!) that really really likes clean oil.

 

Even on my big bus mpg is surprisingly good(see sig below) , I've driven a 1.2 tsi EA211 in a Rapid courtesy car and it nipped along well and was showing a long term mpg of 49mpg (considering it was a courtesy car - not bad)

 

I think my next car will be fitted with the latest tsi engines - not sure which car it will be though. Probably depends on when I buy it and our circumstances (very tall son fledging, me retiring etc...) . I'd like something shorter that my wife likes driving (she find the Superb rather large) , has "Superb" refinement and comfortable for both very tall (up to 6ft 5") and somewhat shorter drivers

Edited 18 November, 2017 by bigjohn

[bollard]

happiness is a skoda fabia

[bollard]

well, i hope that is the case, picking the car up next wednesday. it's ex demo so i'd do a quick check for marks before paying.

 

[Rooted]

Do not do a quick check,

take your time, look for any repairs done to paint or wheels because sometimes that is Kerb Side Autos / Forecourt touching up done by mobile refinishers.

So check well in the dry, even ask them to take it to the valet area.

 

Check the fluids cold, coolant and oil levels before starting the engine,

check which setting the service indicator is at, is it 7,000 miles to the next service or 17,000 miles type thing.

Take a tyre pressure gauge and check all 4 tyres and if not safely set have them do it.

 

Maybe tell the Salesperson now you will be checking all that so do they want to go tell the Workshop manager to be sure all is done properly before you collect the car.