Oil dissapearing on 1.6 tdi

[Robertino]

Good evening gents,

 

I had oil change at dealership 6500 miles ago. Last Sunday engine oil warning light came on - low level. Had to top up 240ml. Drove 1000 miles this week and light came on again yesterday morning, topped up again. What could be the problem why suddenly oil is disappearing so quickly?

 

Should I go to Skoda with this? I only have 7000 miles left till 60k manufacturers warranty runs out.

 

Thanks

Edited 19 November, 2017 by Robertino

[moley]

Get it back to the dealer, but first check on the under tray for an oil leak. I had an oil leak on my previous 1.6 CR MK2 and it was a leak at the oil cooler.

[MoggyTech]

Could be the sump drain plug issue, either loose, or the sealing washer is leaking.

[Robertino]

Booked in this Thursday at Skoda. Guys said "if you read a manual, it says it can consume 1L for 1000 miles". I wasn`t having any of that, its been fine for 20 000 miles, now suddenly 440ml in 7 days time. Let`s see what they find.

[Rooted]

Which manual was that in? 

Phone him up, get his name, get him to photocopy that and send it to you.  Barstewards on Service Desks know jack Sh!t.

If they had a brain they would be even more dangerous.

 

Tell the Dealer Principal about your phone call, they can arrange training for the person answering calls.

 

Was it not 'May Use 0.5 litres 1,000 km' Can use more in first 5,000 km.    paraphrase..

(VW Group give that for every engine, 3,4,5,6,8,10,12 cylinder, petrol or diesel from 44kw up, it is a load of guff, not acceptable tolerance, 

you have a leak or an excessive oil user, so they need to do an official oil consumption test, or find the leak.

There is a set procedure.  and you are not needing to pay, they need to find what the Technician did wrong at the service, 

or is there a fault.)

 

1,000 km = 621 miles.  x2 = 1,241 miles  & 1 Litre, but your driving will not be other High Alpine passes in summer towing....

 

** Only the 1.2 44kW engine checked cold., 

 As to check 'Warm' that is wrong, it is 'Check at operating temperature' as in the VW Manuals for the same engines', as usual lost in translation, German, Spanish, Czech to English or US English'.**

 

See bottom invoice.

That was some Skoda TEch that seems to think 1 litre of Engine Oil weighs 1,000 grams, 

which it obviously does not.  This was an oil user, they said within tolerances, it was not, the terst was rubbish, Skoda paid for a new engine.

Edited 20 November, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[Rooted]

PS

On another matter, DSG.

When your car was in was there a Service Campaign done on the DSG, or were you told not required on your car.

'34H5'  Software Update on the DQ200 DSG.

Not all need it.

 

http://master.skoda-auto.com/mini-apps/recall-actions 

'34H5' probably does not show here even if needed, only the earlier recall on DSG up to 2013, '34F7' when outstanding.

[POWYSWALES]

1 hour ago, Robertino said:

Booked in this Thursday at Skoda. Guys said "if you read a manual, it says it can consume 1L for 1000 miles". I wasn`t having any of that, its been fine for 20 000 miles, now suddenly 440ml in 7 days time. Let`s see what they find.

So he is saying it could be considered normal for the engine to consume a gallon of oil within 5000 miles, that would work out expensive between oil changes. A few years ago I had a work colleague who after many years of working hard decided to treat himself to a brand new £20,000 pound peugeot convertible, not sure of the model but it was consuming something like 1 litre every 1000 miles, the dealer refused to remedy the car as it was stated in the manual it could be considered normal to consume x amount of oil every 1000 miles, he liked the car but could not accept that he had to keep topping up the oil and so got rid of the car within a year, at quite a few thousand loss.

 

 My 1.6 tdi has just had a service at 18,000 miles and the oil stayed on the max mark right up until the service, the only thing I needed to top up once was the water, with about 200ml if that. I don't think I would even be happy even if I was topping up 1 litre between between oil changes, as I never had to do that on past cars which were a mixture of hyundai, daewoo, skoda and rover.

[Rooted]

I have put 2 litres of Oil in a 12 months old 2.0TDI 150ps SCR DSG Seat Alhambra in the past 16,000 miles. (Service oil change due in 4,000 miles.)

Only used on longer trips, no short ones.  Using Ad-Blue less now than on first tank full...

Car goes back in 2 years and i will be picking up free oil next time i am in passed the Skoda / SEAT dealers.  ie tomorrow.

 

Others can use no oil obviously.

[Robertino]

49 minutes ago, Headinawayoffski said:

PS

On another matter, DSG.

When your car was in was there a Service Campaign done on the DSG, or were you told not required on your car.

'34H5'  Software Update on the DQ200 DSG.

Not all need it.

 

http://master.skoda-auto.com/mini-apps/recall-actions 

'34H5' probably does not show here even if needed, only the earlier recall on DSG up to 2013, '34F7' when outstanding.

 

When I just bought it, I phoned Skoda UK and asked them about DSG - they responded "Your gearbox doesn`t have any recalls. If any will come up, we will write to you".

[Robertino]

1 hour ago, Headinawayoffski said:

Which manual was that in? 

 

 

No idea. As soon as I explained everything, he went "oh, that`s normal, it even says that in Skoda manual". Its bull****, sorry, it consumes way too much - 440ml in 2000 miles. I have driven it for 20k miles now since bought, never had to top up oil, been level all time. Before last service, I bought oil and filters myself from VW dealership and did change myself. Then decided to do service at Skoda and bang, end up with this problem. Lucky I still have manufacturers warranty left (2 years or 60k), so in case they tell me "we checked, everything is fine", I`ll be calling Skoda UK.

[Rooted]

Nothing to do with Skoda UK.

Contract with the Dealership that Serviced the car.

Get your concerns in Writing to Dealer Principal & Workshop Manager and then speak in person with Dealer Principal, 

they can deal with your car, provide a courtesy car while it is in,  they were paid to service it.

 

If an Oil Consumption test is required for a Warranty Claim that is different.

The Warranty provider has to Approve that.

& do not be put off by Dealership Employees saying ' You might have to pay if within tolerances'. 

If within Tolerances at the test, it is not now, and they serviced it, they can pay.

The Oil Consumption Test requires a New Filter & OIl anyway, so that for them sorting out what happened since the Service they were paid for.

http://skoda.co.uk/about-us/contact-us 

Edited 20 November, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[gregoir]

12 hours ago, Robertino said:

 

No idea. As soon as I explained everything, he went "oh, that`s normal, it even says that in Skoda manual". Its bull****, sorry, it consumes way too much - 440ml in 2000 miles. I have driven it for 20k miles now since bought, never had to top up oil, been level all time. Before last service, I bought oil and filters myself from VW dealership and did change myself. Then decided to do service at Skoda and bang, end up with this problem. Lucky I still have manufacturers warranty left (2 years or 60k), so in case they tell me "we checked, everything is fine", I`ll be calling Skoda UK.

I hope that you realise the manufacturers warranty may now be invalid unless you work for a VAT registered garage ( rather than a diy oil and filter change. ) That's the only alternative to using an official dealer afaik.

[Robertino]

Just had a call from Skoda - they checked everything, no problems found. No oil leaks, no smoke, turbo is fine. What on earth I do now?!

[Rooted]

You ask them with the oil at the level it is that they tape over the Oil filer car and tape in the dipstick and you take the car away, 

and if you get a Low Oil Warning or Low Oil Pressure warning before you have driven a further 1,500 miles they come and recover the car and then do an Official Oil Consumption test.

 

Or they could do it now.  They Change the Oil & Filter, they get the car up to operating temperature, they drain the oil and weigh it, 

they put it back in the engine, they can seal the dip stick in, you drive for 621 miles or 1,242 miles and go back and they drop the oil and weigh it.

(Or they can suck it out at start of test and weigh, and suck out at end of test and weigh.)

 

As it is you have Officially notified of a Warranty Claim and concern so as long as logged on the system that is the starting point.

See how you get on this week.

 

Check the level when you collect the car, and when you get home.

[BigEjit]

Could even be related to the brand of oil used by the dealer during the service.

 

I had an Leon Cupra R for 6 years, the only time the oil light illuminated was after a service when the Dealer used a cheaper brand name oil after i forgot to take my own, changed it back to Castrol edge and never used a drop afterwards. It didn't use any before either.

[POWYSWALES]

3 hours ago, BigEjit said:

Could even be related to the brand of oil used by the dealer during the service.

 

I had an Leon Cupra R for 6 years, the only time the oil light illuminated was after a service when the Dealer used a cheaper brand name oil after i forgot to take my own, changed it back to Castrol edge and never used a drop afterwards. It didn't use any before either.

This could well be a good point, many car service centres buy oil in large 45 gallon drums costing around £1000 or more for some of the better quality grade oils, and many car dealers that own these places would sell there own gran mother, I would know as I worked for a few in the past. How can you be sure they are willing to buy in quality drums of oil costing around £1000 plus when they could possibly get a budget costing less than £500. That as far as there concerned will get you past the warranty period, the fact it will reduce the life of your engine will not be there problem and could well be to there advantage a few years later when you bring your car in fir repair because of the advanced wear.

 

I guess another problem is that although engines are now built to better tolerances, oils are getting thinner making it more likely to seep past any piston rings or valve guides that are not perfectly bed in or within tolerances.

Edited 23 November, 2017 by POWYSWALES
Edit

[Robertino]

Went to Skoda to pick it up. Asked them what did they do? "We took under tray off, checked if its not leaking, that`s it." I then asked them why nothing else? "Because Skoda won`t pay us for all that work, if you ware willing to pay, we will carry out further checks like oil consumption test etc". Its a joke. Spoke to Skoda UK on the phone, they advised to to and get second opinion in another dealership, but I will have to pay.

 

"Warranty covers faults, but to find them, I have to pay".

 

I think I need to stage a protest by VW UK head office in Milton Keynes, manufacturers warranty means jack ****.

[Rooted]

No need to do anything right now.

Other than.

Dip the oil cold. see where it is on the Dip Stick.  Then when you have a run dip it at the end off the run.

Next time cold dip it.

And keep an eye now on any oil consumption.  & Chill.

 

You have told the Dealership that did the service, you have told the Warranty provider, if it still uses oil after that Dealership Serviced it then that garage can pay for the diagnosis as it never used oil before it went into their workshop.

 

CHECK NOW THAT THEY NEVER JUST OVERFILLED THE OIL. 

LOOK SEE IF IT LOOKS LIKE THEY HAVE PUT IN THE CORRECT OIL NOW, JUST INCASE THAT WAS AN ISSUE. ie They changed the oil.

 

II take it there was no charge from the dealership for all they did to check to see that the Tech had tightened the sump plug.

Edited 24 November, 2017 by AwaoffSki

[Robertino]

2 minutes ago, AwaoffSki said:

II take it there was no charge from the dealership for all they did to check to see that the Tech had tightened the sump plug.

 

Correct

[Rooted]

You will not have to pay for the diagnosis if it now uses oil after they serviced the car if you never used oil before hand, they would like that you did.

 

?

Do you have the service invoice, 

Which Oil used, quantity charged for?

[Sheldon.Cooper]

So the official manual says 1 litre of oil every 1000 miles and you're going through 220ish ml every 1000 miles since your recent service?

 

1. Sounds like it's using 25% of what they consider normal.

 

2. A thinner oil was used at the service hence the increase in consumption.

 

Sounds like you've got no comeback against Skoda, your options seem to be get it serviced again by a different garage and ask for a thicker oil to be used or check and top up every 1000miles.

[Rooted]

The official manual. Owners Manuals does not say that though.

 

Did you read the OP, he had the Warning light on after the 240ml top up, 

the light would usually come on with 1 litre or more low. But the OP knows how much needed put in after first warning light.

 

*** TOPPING UP 240ML AFTER A LOW OIL WARNING LIGHT WAS PROBABLY NOT ENOUGH OIL.

YOU CAN OPEN THE BONNET FOR MORE THAN 30 SECONDS, DO NOTHING AND THE WARNING LIGHT GOES OUT.***

 

Do you think thinner than 5w 30 FS Long Life was used?   what like 0W 30 FS Long Life.

 

BELOW IS FABIA EURO 5 ENGINES< So not Octavia, but check the Oil charged for on the Invoice for the Octavia.

Edited 24 November, 2017 by AwaoffSki

[nidza]

Guys, oil volume varies very much on temperature. VAG engines are measured warm, not cold. 

 

But, you have to wait a little bit oil to settle, as dipstick will be very dirty immediately after engine shut down, impossible to see oil level. So, you wait ~15 min and then check. Do it periodically and follow-up the problem, if it's still there or not.

 

What can affect consumption very much is tempo of driving. Our 2.0 TDIs in my company are being topped all the time, but we are driving them on the open road, not really gently. If you had been driving a longer distances in high rpms, TDIs may be thirsty. On the other hand, our 2.0 TDI we drive privately, low rpm and city driving mostly, never needs to be topped up. I wonder how DPF is not already dead as it is surviving short city distances for the fifth year now.

[Rooted]

WARM is a SKODA Translation error.  VW for the same engines says 'Normal operating temperature.'

 

The OP had the car before having it serviced at a dealership, so knew what the oil consumption was pre service.

 

***

MY MISTAKE WAS MISSING WERE HE PUT IN ONLY 240ml WHEN THE FIRST WARNING LIGHT CAME ON.

THAT WILL BE WHY ANOTHER WARNING LIGHT SHOWED, TOO LITTLE OIL, FROM THE SERVICE AND FROM THE TOPPING UP.***

 

Volume does not vary very much at 90*oC with Engine Oil.

If you put one litre in a pan at 15*oC, (857grams of oil) 

and mark the pan and heat to 100*oC you can see how much the volume increases.  (A test i and others have done.)

Not much increase in volume, not even at 150*oC.

 

What happens cold is it is all in the sump.

At operating temperature after a few minutes there is still oil in the head, journals, filter etc.

Then there is how high above sea level etc etc.

 

Drain after 5 minutes on the Old official test. like the time that is right for dipping oil after stopping an engine.

Just the Owners manuals say 'A few minutes', 15 minutes and not 'a few', who has time to hang around 15 minutes after stopping an engine?

Edited 24 November, 2017 by AwaoffSki

[Robertino]

I have had no more issues with oil consumption after I topped up with my own Castrol oil. Dealership must have used cheap low quality oil.