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Fly Tipping.................


Auric Goldfinger

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Watching the news tonight there was an artical on Fly Tipping.

 

Councils charge horiffic prices for tradesmen/general public etc etc who try to use the tips hence it results in fly tipping and then it costs the Councils/tax payers an arm and a leg to clean it up.

 

Wouldn't it be cheaper for councils to allow free disposal of rubbish than pay for rubbish to be removed from fly tipping

 

Doesn't make sense to me

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At our local tip it's cheaper to buy a sheet of plasterboard than it is to get rid of it. 

£10/ sheet for disposal or £6 if you can fit it in a 30 litre bag. Not sure why a bag of plasterboard is cheaper to recycle than a sheet :sadsmile:
Fly tipping round here's got worse since they introduced charges. Madness.

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Don't know about anywhere else, but in Barnsley, residents can dispose of rubbish free of charge at recycling centres. Commercial waste has to be paid for and why not? The tradesman has charged for the job, why should the council tax payer be subsidising their profits? There's no excuse for fly tipping, however you dress it up. Fly tipping is usually by fly traders, who not only expect the local council tax payers to subsidise them, but haven't joined the income-tax club either.When they catch them, they should make a bonfire with the rubbish and sit the tipper on top.

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Lead by example. Isn't that what they say?
 

Quote

More than 2.5m disposable cups have been purchased by the UK’s environment department for use in its restaurants and cafes over the past five years – equivalent to nearly 1,400 a day.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/nov/21/uk-environment-department-using-1400-disposable-coffee-cups-a-day

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@Lee01

Our government was first to bring in plastic bag charge 22c/bag (15p roughly at the time) to curb the thousands of them stuck in trees around the country. It worked, other countries followed.

Theyre now talking of 15c (12-13p) tax on hot beverages sold in disposable cups to encourage us to buy reusable cups and bring them with us with our shopping bags. Will it help - yes. So expect your lot to follow our lead in about 10years..

 

Fly tipping is horrendous. We (my work) own property all over the place, rural,urban, middle of nowhere, and we are always dealing with people dumping on our grounds. Mattresses, rubbish, fridges, washing machines, tyres.. needles and drug gear.. its a losing battle that we have to pay for in plant hire and disposal charges...

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8 minutes ago, mac11irl said:

@Lee01

Our government was first to bring in plastic bag charge 22c/bag (15p roughly at the time) to curb the thousands of them stuck in trees around the country. It worked, other countries followed.

Theyre now talking of 15c (12-13p) tax on hot beverages sold in disposable cups to encourage us to buy reusable cups and bring them with us with our shopping bags. Will it help - yes. So expect your lot to follow our lead in about 10years..

 

Fly tipping is horrendous. We (my work) own property all over the place, rural,urban, middle of nowhere, and we are always dealing with people dumping on our grounds. Mattresses, rubbish, fridges, washing machines, tyres.. needles and drug gear.. its a losing battle that we have to pay for in plant hire and disposal charges...

Why is it we are always behind the curve?
Anyone remember Corona pop? 10p per return. Milk to the door. Bottles washed and reused.

Don't anyone dare tell me it's an EU thing either. 
Go to Germany. Go to the local 'Getrinkemarkt' (off licence). You buy a crate of beer, Coke, water or whatever. You pay a deposit for the crate. Return the empty crate and bottles and you get a refund/ less the cost off a new crate. Bottles go back to the maker for wash and refill.

Don't tell me it can't be done.
Placcy bags. I'd stick them up to a pound a bag as so many people seem to think 'oh, it's only 5p'. 

Tell that to the swan that's choking on a bag or the turtle who's body is malformed because it was trapped in your waste.

 

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56 minutes ago, Lee01 said:

I agree entirely with your point, Lee, but the original post was about fly tipping. The Environment Agency isn't fly-tipping its plastic cups. Both are environmental issues, but they are different issues.

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1 minute ago, TheOctaviator said:

I agree entirely with your point, Lee, but the original post was about fly tipping. The Environment Agency isn't fly-tipping its plastic cups. Both are environmental issues, but they are different issues.

Yeah I know what you mean and thanks. These things have a habit of wandering off topic in the off topic section :D 

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Just now, Lee01 said:

Yeah I know what you mean and thanks. These things have a habit of wandering off topic in the off topic section :D 

The trouble is, while we are having a (fairly) sensible debate about it, the people causing the problem are at it even as we debate. I still think my bonfire suggestion has some merit, apart from the air pollution it will cause (or is that another thread?).

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1 minute ago, TheOctaviator said:

The trouble is, while we are having a (fairly) sensible debate about it, the people causing the problem are at it even as we debate. I still think my bonfire suggestion has some merit, apart from the air pollution it will cause (or is that another thread?).

I think your suggestion has some merit. It might even take a few Transit tippers with bald tyres and dodgy MoT's off the road at the same time.
One might even argue there'd be less caravans being towed as well.
But I wouldn't argue that point..................

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Many years ago in a council estate close by, we had a major problem with fly-tipping into the gardens of gardens of empty council properties. At one resident's association meeting the manager in charge of empty properties revealed that his blokes couldn't remove the fly tips faster than they were being dumped. Suggestion- a skip placed in the area weekly. Next, we had no fly tipping, as folks from around the estates came to deposit stuff in the skips.

 So, we can ask -  is the fly tip problem caused by council charges or folks not wanting to pay /not being able to afford the council charges.

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We have free waste disposal, although they charge or limit the amount of rubble sacks one can dump. They check trade vans and charge them according if they haven't applied for a pass to use the recycling facility. In our particular area they also provide a skip for households to dump furniture, beds, building rubble etc. 

We still get fly tipping, one this morning down the lane, one of those double American style fridges. Obviously that size a truck or responsible for the tip. But what annoys me are the bags of waste just launched out of car windows onto the verges. 

Discussing this very subject this morning, certainly a countrywide problem.

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Free skips strategically placed are fine for residents who don't have the means or are too lazy to drive to a tip. The real problem is industrial amounts of  tipping, where an unsuspecting business pays the correct bill and is duped by the waste contractor, who dumps it in a lane or lay-by.  Or effectively in collusion by the customer paying a ridiculously low bill, as the lowest tenders usually win. Doubtless the courts can impose huge fine. If not already the practice, then a further deterrent should be confiscation of the vehicle which transported the waste. 

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Another initiative our local council have brought in is a register of users. When you go to our local recycling centre, you always gave the reg of your car when paying for what you had.

But, theyve now had some joined up thinking - first visit you register with name address, contact number. Still give reg number as you go through. Even get a membership card to beep through with on subsequent visits. The aim is to have a list of registered centre users which can then be tallied with all the private waste collection companies' clients which are  supplied to the environment section of council. If youre details dont show up on at least one list, they plan on paying a visit to discuss your current waste disposal methods..

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The problem is, I was at the tip a few days ago and whilst unloading a builder arrived and called in at the office, the  man at the tip looked in the back of his van and I heard him say, " That will cost you around £45 to tip " The reply was " Ok mate I'll leave it, I'll get rid of it myself "  Guess where that loads going. IF it was fly tipped it wil cost the Council/tax payer a damn sight more than £45 to clean up the rubbish. Why not take the rubbish for free  and save the cost of the clear up.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Auric Goldfinger said:

The problem is, I was at the tip a few days ago and whilst unloading a builder arrived and called in at the office, the  man at the tip looked in the back of his van and I heard him say, " That will cost you around £45 to tip " The reply was " Ok mate I'll leave it, I'll get rid of it myself "  Guess where that loads going. IF it was fly tipped it wil cost the Council/tax payer a damn sight more than £45 to clean up the rubbish. Why not take the rubbish for free  and save the cost of the clear up.

 

 

That would require some fore sight by the council.  In my experience councils lack any fore sight.

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Even if the council takes the rubbish for free they still have to pay to get rid of it. Not everything can be taken to land fill so must go for further processing which all costs money.

The majority of businesses are responsible and dispose of their waste correctly, recycling what they can to reduce their costs. If the councils just started taking waste from traders for free then why should bigger businesses be responsible instead they could just have a constant stream of vehicles going to the council tips and soon overwhelm the facilities. A quick trip to the tip after your garage clear out will soon become an all day event. 

Those that illegally dump profit from doing so. It’s a deliberate act in doing this and any costs prosecuting the offenders and clearing up the mess should be passed onto them and forfeitures should be inplace to recover property to pay for this. If they are lose their  homes due to their actions then they have no one else to blame. This along with rewards for identifying fly tippers and problem will soon disappear. 

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3 minutes ago, CWARD said:

Even if the council takes the rubbish for free they still have to pay to get rid of it. Not everything can be taken to land fill so must go for further processing which all costs money.

The majority of businesses are responsible and dispose of their waste correctly, recycling what they can to reduce their costs. If the councils just started taking waste from traders for free then why should bigger businesses be responsible instead they could just have a constant stream of vehicles going to the council tips and soon overwhelm the facilities. A quick trip to the tip after your garage clear out will soon become an all day event. 

Those that illegally dump profit from doing so. It’s a deliberate act in doing this and any costs prosecuting the offenders and clearing up the mess should be passed onto them and forfeitures should be inplace to recover property to pay for this. If they are lose their  homes due to their actions then they have no one else to blame. This along with rewards for identifying fly tippers and problem will soon disappear. 

 

Most council run tips separate different materials for recycling for which they get paid for, rubble, garden waste, metal, plastic and glass. Admittedly there is land fill bit cannot this be processed then burnt, toxic fumes captured and disposed of and that should cut down on burning coal, wood etc etc.  

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Some Councils like the one with the biggest income from Recycling / producing and selling gas / compost etc deliberate, consult, consider, make a decision, change their mind, elected members vote, 

set the new rules, the opening times, and then implement.

As it is after all that their decision will lead to more fly tipping in their council area or neighbouring ones.

357sp.pdf

26.pdf

Income from Recycling etc - a Freedom of Information request to Angus Council - WhatDoTheyKnow.mhtml

report757.pdf

2000 and much easier to get facts & figures than in 2017....

Edited by AwaoffSki
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2 hours ago, CWARD said:

Even if the council takes the rubbish for free they still have to pay to get rid of it. Not everything can be taken to land fill so must go for further processing which all costs money.

 

 

I agree with what your saying but why not take the rubbish for free, then pay to have it removed. It must be better than paying thousands to clear up fly tipping then pay again to have that rubbish taken away. With all the recycling that goes on anyway the Councils must recoup some of the money anyway

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A few years back one of the blokes who worked at the council swimming pool as a supervisor & was also a community councillor was doing his fathers property up himself...so load of internal doors to local council run dump...."that's a commercial trade load & will cost you £XXX."..was over £100....& they wouldn't' take his word that it was him doing DIY so not commercial..

 

 

Ended up front page of the local rag...lets just say the blokes at the dump were told off & although not proven it was suggested they were making money on the side by doing this little scam....

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Moral of the story is that councils want to be paid to remove rubbish from properties. Along comes fly tip Freddie, who takes it and dumps it where he likes. No trace of who dumped it and council have to pay to remove it. Why not have free removal of rubbish on a weekly basis- ( I refer posters to my previous post on a council doing just this) - the collection is pre-planned, so no real expense over removing fly tip. Al the expense is placing a skip in a pre advertised place.

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On 25/11/2017 at 13:49, Auric Goldfinger said:

 

I agree with what your saying but why not take the rubbish for free, then pay to have it removed. It must be better than paying thousands to clear up fly tipping then pay again to have that rubbish taken away. With all the recycling that goes on anyway the Councils must recoup some of the money anyway

 

I know with Kirklees we went to a meeting as they were reducing collections and altering the recycle centres too. The vast majority of the waste had to be paid top be taken away i.e. the the land fill sites weren't owned by the council but by SITA. The glass bottles most of it was worthless in that it was the brown or green variety which has so little value that the transport costs often outweigh the benefit but this glass was taken away for the value of the clear glass so no net income or cost. Metals they did make money from and was used in the waste collection budget. Plastics they had to pay to have taken away as the majority wasn't able to be recycled. Most paper was of no value due to it being glossy which can't be recycled. 

The recycling centres was pretty much a repeat of the above with companies providing skips or containers for items to be placed in but very few where they would make money from such as oil, veg oil* and metals. *The veg oil would only be paid for it hadn't been spoiled by  someone pouring engine oil into it.

Certain things they lost money on which mainly large item i.e. old furniture collections and asbestos. This I had used myself when I replaced a garage roof. You had to double sheet each panel and book an appointment for dropping it off. When I had done this it was straight forward but the guy who was there told me it was still a big problem with people fly tipping it and much of what they collected wasn't actually asbestos but concrete fibre board as well as plaster board which can't be put in land fill.

We left the meeting feeling enlightened as we were of the opinion that were there's muck there's brass. I could imagine that some councils do make some money out of it but it won't be much and the majority will end up funding it from council tax and rates.

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Yes there are 'Landfill Taxes' to pay, and Incinerators to build, and Pollution to avoid & communities that object to Incinerators.

The refuse and waste does need removing, recycling, destroying though. 

 

Then there are Aggregate Taxes per Tonne of Aggregates removed, quarried etc, and someplaces like in my area rich in aggregates the quarried land is then the land fill area.

The land recovered then becomes Building Land due to the safe way it was recovered / treated, it also becomes Leisure & Recreation or Conservation land, 

http://angusenvironmentaltrust.co.uk 

http://angusenvironmentaltrust.co.uk/previous 

http://angusenvironmentaltrust.co.uk/application 

and the Organisations or Companies doing this get Government Grants on Regeneration and Conservation.

Instead of paying Aggregate Tax to move materials or Land Fill Tax they get Government Grants and Subsidies to put in 'Paths For All',  Roadways and access's to Public Places etc. Provisional Applications for Golf Courses and the likes even though they might never be built.

 

Much more involved money wise than just emptying bins & skips & food / waste removal than just rubbish dumps or refuse sites.

http://sepa.org.uk/regulations/waste/landfill 

 

Food Waste Household Brown bin contents in my Area goes 30 miles by road to be processed.

http://binngroup.co.uk/sectors/food

http://binngroup.co.uk 

http://www.pkc.gov.uk/foodwaste 

 

?

Has anyone ever met a poor scrap merchant, or waste disposal facility proprietor?

Edited by AwaoffSki
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