Possible clutch problem

[ricksavery]

Hello

New poster so please bear with me. Also, my knowledge of cars is pretty much basic principles and that's it, hence my query.

Right, I bought a 2014 1.0 Greentech Elegance 5dr petrol Citigo a couple of days ago, and i have a concern over a noise. Now I know that with any new car there are strange noises that you just have to get used to until you don't hear them anymore, but I want to know if this is different.

First noticed a 'chattering' (as opposed to a grinding or banging) sound when I started the engine and it was in neutral. I could make it slightly louder by gently touching the accelerator - any more than gentle and the normal engine sound would take over.

Not necessarily worrying, except that it would completely disappear when i depressed the clutch pedal. My first thought was 'problem with the clutch' or 'something loose'.

I must stress that it isn't loud, and the only reason I noticed it at first was the clutch making it disappear.

Since then, I have become hyper-sensitive about noises and have noticed that when changing up a gear, the clutch seems to give a gentle clang (not the pedal clicking, which I have read about on these forums). Again, not loud but it doesn't happen when changing back down.

To be honest, I probably wouldn't have registered it but for the chattering noise above.

Looking through these forums, I can see that there is a possibility that three cylinder engines make this sort of noise - at least the VW Up, Seat Mii and the Citigo seem to - but the noise stopping when pushing on the clutch pedal worries me.

Am I right to worry? If so, what should I be asking of the dealer?

Many thanks for reading this, as it does seem to be a recurring theme. Any help / advice gratefully received.

[ronime]

Mine makes similar noises. 3 cylinder engines are inherently unbalanced and VW opted to not include balancer shafts on these engines. The gearbox oil is also very thin and as such does not mask gearbox noise very well.

[Emil]

Gearbox is noisy sometimes. When you depress the clutch cogwheels stops spinning and  noise disappears. 

[nbJubilee]

Built in noises. Turn the radio louder and drive on.

[Snaefell]

This is the research I've done in the past regarding transmission noise.  Regards Snaefell

 

>It's not the thrust bearing.

The problem is caused by the high level of torsional oscillation generated by the 3 cyl engine, coupled with a minimal amount of light lubricant present in the transmission. These factors cause the mainshaft and output shaft gears to chatter when unloaded.

Both the non-optimal engine configuration (in terms of primary balance and the number of power strokes per crank revolution) and the transmission's operating conditions are dictated by the seemingly overriding requirement to reduce emissions.

VW Customer Support  - March 2012.

 

This is a documented issue acknowledged by VW and is the result of the car NOT having a dual Mass Flywheel, the device that has been causing some serious trouble on older cars. It is covered under the VW technical product information notice below that basically tells you there is nothing to worry about and nothing that can be done to stop it.

Rattling noise from engine bay at idle vehicles fitted with 02S 5 speed manual gearbox (UK TPI) Release date: 05-Dec-2012 Technical product information Transaction No.: 2032109/1

Customer statement / workshop findings

Rattling noise from the engine bay area with the engine running at idle.

Technical background

Neutral gear rollover noise describes the condition whereby a rattling noise from the constant mesh gearing in the transmission is heard while the engine idles with the clutch engaged (pedal released).

It is caused by engine torsional vibration and is particularly prevalent on vehicles with a single mass flywheel and low idle speed requirements. The intensity of neutral gear rollover noise will increase with transmission temperature and / or an increase of torque loading, for example air conditioning or heated rear window activation.

The rollover noise is inherent to transmission design and will disappear when a gear is selected and the vehicle is driven. The noise is not detrimental to the transmission or engine components and does not constitute a manufacturing defect.

Production change

None

Measure

 

When evaluating transmission complaints please draw on the statements above when assessing the complaint, remembering to account for engine refinement, gear selection “feel”, and clutch operation.

Warranty accounting instructions

Normal warranty guidelines apply.

Parts information

No parts information.

Customer information

Neutral gear rollover noise will not negatively affect the longevity or performance of the vehicle. It is concept related and does not constitute a manufacturing defect.

[Rooted]

^^^^^ ?

Following that in 2012, did the VW Group make changes to the gearboxes, in 2013,14,15,16 or 2017?

[mags101]

Rick, a year on..did anything horrible regarding this odd noise happen to your car?

Reason im asking is i purchased a citigo today & immediately picked up the very same chattering noise.

 

Do these have duel mass flywheels? Or are they a solid flywheel as standard?

Have i anything to worry about?

This was a trade in for a husband! Have i swapped 1 lemon for another?

[BashRacing]

Mine does it, as did the demonstrator at the stealership when I test drove one,

I think it's just how they are.

[mags101]

9 minutes ago, BashRacing said:

Mine does it, as did the demonstrator at the stealership when I test drove one,

I think it's just how they are.

Oh thankgod for that, after £5000 at the stealership & £240 insurance & lemon ex husband i really needed this as a fresh start

As long as nothing is due to blow out etc (previously had an octavia & garage didnt pickup flywheel issue so this noise,sounds the same)

[Eltezz]

Don’t panic. I’ve driven four different Citigo’s now and they all do it. Perfectly normal (for the design).

[ricksavery]

1 hour ago, mags101 said:

Rick, a year on..did anything horrible regarding this odd noise happen to your car?

Reason im asking is i purchased a citigo today & immediately picked up the very same chattering noise.

 

Do these have duel mass flywheels? Or are they a solid flywheel as standard?

Have i anything to worry about?

This was a trade in for a husband! Have i swapped 1 lemon for another?

Quite a timely post as my warranty was up at the end of December, so I took it in to the dealers to see about the noise and an additional problem with the steering. The chap who did the MOT also murmered something about 'double-mass flywheels' which went completely over my head.

Anyway, the dealer confirmed that there was indeed something wrong and they did dome work on it - as well as replacing the steering rack - and it now makes no noise at all. So despie the fact that most people I spoke to about this said it was a poblem with these and three-cylinders cars in genral, it might be worth making them take another look at it. The chap at the dealership said that the clutch was an issue on the Skoda's so that seemed to confirm that the noise was an issue.

Sorry to be the bearer of not-altogether positive news, and it may be that your noise does not mean this.

 

[ricksavery]

8 minutes ago, Eltezz said:

Don’t panic. I’ve driven four different Citigo’s now and they all do it. Perfectly normal (for the design).

That's encouraging, but makes me a bit puzzled why the dealer so readily replaced whatever they replaced in order to fix what the noise presumably indicated - phew! :-) 

[mags101]

Do they definately have single mass /solid flywheels?

 

Ricksavery: i only know this as my octavia (and crap garages) sent me to near enough a nervous breakdown(my livlihood!)

 

Duelmass 2 disks which do something but they spin, between gearbox & clutch & its hard for them to see this without ripping out the clutch, these 2 disks sorta wear or warp then they eventually knock together & shatter and take out anything in their way. Awful things. I feel like refusing my car!

[BashRacing]

No Dual mass on the citigo, just a good old fashioned solid flywheel