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DPF questions (I know)


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Hi all,

 

New here, so be gentle! I've just bought a 57k mile Octy vRS TDI CR (2015), and have read a lot of threads about the DPF (including the sticky). On my way home after buying it, the DPF warning light came on, and since then virtually every journey has involved an active regen (I assume) - with fans staying on after the journey, etc.

 

To learn more, I bought the VAG DPF app for my smartphone and I already had an ELM ODBII thingie, and I've been looking at mysterious numbers ever since!

 

It seems that each time I go for a run (usually over 40mph most journeys), the engine 'schedules' a regen (little hourglass on the VAG DPF display), and soon after it starts. Idle up to 1,000rpm, 600 degree DPF temps, etc. Usually after 30 minutes to 45 minutes later the regen stops and the idle drops, as do the DPF temps. Then there's a short period and sometimes I get to park up for a bit and then bugger me it starts another regen!

 

From what other people have said in other places, there should be a bit of mileage where the regens don't happen. I'm not getting that. I also notice the oil ash residue figure seems a bit high (60.4g) compared to what others have said. I've attached a screengrab from just after one of the regen cycles.

 

Anyone know if this is "normal" behaviour or should I be getting something checked out? I notice there are some ways to clean the DPF but are any of these really effective and do I need to think about getting it done?

 

Cheers!

2017-12-30 14.34.58.jpg

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3% of soot mass should not trigger regen.

75% of oil ash is very high.

It's either a parameter when oil ash is very high to do regens, or some 'aging' option that prevents regen to complete (seen this in BMW).

However you might have issue with EGR/fuel injectors/etc been disfunctional thus preventing successful regens.

 

My advice is to connect it to diag soft to check for errors, then force active regen via obd but most probably at the end you will need to clean the DPF :(

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If you bought it from a dealer then they should be the first port of call, either supplied warranty or Sale of Goods act, to get them to replace the dpf. If private try one of the cleaners but do not expect too much - nice app by the way.

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This stinks as a scam! Maybe they putted a overused read almost full DPF filter? Or previous owner didn't take care of the car.

 

New one cost's 1K€.

 

Go to the place where you bought the car and ask them to fix this or you return the car! Be annoying.

 

If that's not an option. Go and make forced regeneration. Change your oil filters, gas filter and oil. This amount of ashes in your oil can only cause some damage to engine in long time.

 

Don't procrastinate fix this a sap!

Edited by Croat
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Thanks everyone! I'm taking the car to my local dealer today to have them confirm the diagnosis. I'll ask them what needs to be done, and whether it's covered by any warranty. They should also have the service history for the car (which wasn't supplied when I bought it) so that might tell them if there's been a gap in servicing where someone might have put the wrong oil in, etc.

 

I'll let you know what happens!

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Mine was just over 28k and was at 13.5g (17%) - thats will some use of the DTUK box.

 

Unfortunately, I've yet to see a dealer that will warranty a DPF - its pretty much buyer beware. 

 

I put the following article together for my fellow Mk3 TDI owners. Hope it helps - let me know how you get on

https://www.hypermiler.co.uk/dpf-diesel-particulate-filter/skoda-octavia-iii-2013-diesel-particulate-filter-dpf-owners-manual-regeneration-faq

 

Maybe also comment on that article if you can, I'd like to add to it with your experiences.

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Mine is a 1.6, with nearly 69000 miles. My figures are similar to the ones above (albeit doubled!).

 

Screenshot_20171230-184024.png

Edited by J_D
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Thanks all,

 

Spoke to the Skoda dealer down the road today. They were initially skeptical of "my app", told me to uninstall it and reinstall it :dull: but after they plugged the car into their diags they basically confirmed the same readings. They agree that the oil ash residue (60.4g or 75%) is way too high for the mileage and reckon the DPF has less than a year left before it'll need replacing. They said it could be down to the wrong oil, or something catastrophic happening in the past such as a turbo blow up.

 

Also I found out that the car has no service history at all, despite being advertised as having full history. Skoda haven't seen it since it left their dealer forecourt. This is beginning to possibly tie in with the "wrong oil" theory.

 

I've called the dealer I bought the car from, and suggested I return it and get a refund. I'm waiting for their call back. It's not that it's a bad car - far from it - it's just that I was looking for a low mileage car with full service history, and that's not what I've ended up with here.

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2 hours ago, MachoGrande said:

Thanks all,

 

Spoke to the Skoda dealer down the road today. They were initially skeptical of "my app", told me to uninstall it and reinstall it :dull: but after they plugged the car into their diags they basically confirmed the same readings. They agree that the oil ash residue (60.4g or 75%) is way too high for the mileage and reckon the DPF has less than a year left before it'll need replacing. They said it could be down to the wrong oil, or something catastrophic happening in the past such as a turbo blow up.

 

Also I found out that the car has no service history at all, despite being advertised as having full history. Skoda haven't seen it since it left their dealer forecourt. This is beginning to possibly tie in with the "wrong oil" theory.

 

I've called the dealer I bought the car from, and suggested I return it and get a refund. I'm waiting for their call back. It's not that it's a bad car - far from it - it's just that I was looking for a low mileage car with full service history, and that's not what I've ended up with here.

No service history = Get your money back and walk away. Get a copy of the original advert and if they refuse to refund, tell them the car was miss-sold due to false information.

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Well the dealer has agreed to take it back - minus a few hundred quid for the 500 miles or so I've put on it. I'm not going to quibble over that tbh, I think I just want to get my money back and choose another Octy that hasn't been so abused!

 

Don't worry, I'll be staying with the O3 vRS theme, I've already bought a hatchbag and some other bits so it's too late to give up now ;)

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Related question:

 

Is this oil ash residue considered the life of your DPF? Once this gets close to 100%, game over and £1000+ please?

 

How many miles can I expect a DPF to last? Any way to extend this such as more regular oil change?

 

My '63 2.0 TDI CR has 78k on it, the app is reading 28.8g in this ash residue box. This seems to be in line with J_D's reading. Does this mean at 150-200k the DPF will be spent? 

I intend to keep this car for many years to come, but spend minimal required on it (no big expenses like replacing DPF). It will do occasional long distances (read holiday), but mostly sitting on the driveway due to it is secondary car, primary is an EV. Does this mean yearly service scheme will be better than the long life oil variable service scheme?

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@wyx087 - Yes, the oil ash is what kills a DPF.

 

When soot is burnt of during a regen, some residue is left which the car can't burn off. This will slowly build up until the DPF is clogged and can't function properly - this is the oil ash :)

 

I'm not sure what the maximum oil ash level is for a MK3 but based on the 75%/60.4g figure, probably about 80g. Based on your current figures, it should last until about 200k.

Edited by langers2k
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25 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Is this oil ash residue considered the life of your DPF? Once this gets close to 100%, game over and £1000+ please?

 

How many miles can I expect a DPF to last? Any way to extend this such as more regular oil change?

 

My '63 2.0 TDI CR has 78k on it, the app is reading 28.8g in this ash residue box. This seems to be in line with J_D's reading. Does this mean at 150-200k the DPF will be spent? 

I intend to keep this car for many years to come, but spend minimal required on it (no big expenses like replacing DPF). It will do occasional long distances (read holiday), but mostly sitting on the driveway due to it is secondary car, primary is an EV. Does this mean yearly service scheme will be better than the long life oil variable service scheme?

 

The Skoda garage I visited told me that 80g of ash is game over - new DPF. They also confirmed that the figures reported on the VAG DPF app are very accurate - same as the official diag tools.

 

They reckon the usual lifespan of a DPF on a Mk3 TDI is about 150k-200k. Depends on a lot of factors though!

 

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13 minutes ago, alladin1616 said:

I have seen places offering DPF cleaning. Will this remove the unburnt ash?  It seems heavy vehicles get their filters cleaned by specialist equipment, 

 

Depends how they do it. There are reports that taking off the DPF and using special cleaning sprays can work (Liqui-Moly do one you fit to a compressor but it's quite expensive to buy the kit), but there are other reports saying that the only way to get rid of the ash residue is basically take off the DPF and basically stick it in a furnace to burn off the residue, but this can damage the honeycomb structure. You may end up with a dead DPF anyway just trying to clean it.

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I did some research before purchasing the car and believe that they use high pressure water to blast the dpf as clear as they can. One company is OEM recognised as a method of cleaning them. £400 roughly if I remember.

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Just now, J_D said:

I did some research before purchasing the car and believe that they use high pressure water to blast the dpf as clear as they can. One company is OEM recognised as a method of cleaning them. £400 roughly if I remember.

 

It seems the article here differentiates between ash and soot, soot which is removed by regen and ash that stays behind (after the high temperature baking during regen) and need to be removed using specialist cleaners. Maybe in 2-3 years there will be more places that offer this service. 

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19 hours ago, MachoGrande said:

 

Also I found out that the car has no service history at all, despite being advertised as having full history. Skoda haven't seen it since it left their dealer forecourt. This is beginning to possibly tie in with the "wrong oil" theory.

To play devils advocate for a second. That doesn't mean 'no service history' it means the previous owner didn't take it to an over priced dealer.....

My Toyota has full history and its never been back to Toyota (they actually know nothing about those particular cars anyway) because I'd rather take it to an indy I trust and have know all my life. the difference is VAG don't give you a service book to get stamped so you have to keep all your invoices. With everything else dodgy in your case , though it does seem like you've been 'had' somewhat. If you got it from a dealer they must've known about the history before selling it.

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To put DPF replacement into context regarding cost, assuming you had to replace the DPF at 100,000 miles, that's 1 Pence per mile additional running costs.  If you add up servicing and maintenance like brakes and filters, oil, tyres, that will be far more than £1000. Sure it's an added expense having the DPF but £1000 in say six years after purchase is hardly the end of the World. 

 

Given the latest Intel CPU vulnerabilities that have come to light, I wonder what shocks electric car owners are in for down the line. Simple law of a mechanic states. "If it's got wheels or boobs it will cause you problems.":D

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Well folks, this gets stranger and stranger!

 

Thanks to a site called cazana.com I was able to check the history of when it was last sold to a new owner. At that time it was £8,995 and it had done 149,000 miles. That was in October! Between then and mid-December it gained nearly £3k in price and lost a little under 100,000 miles. It's been clocked! How convenient that it hasn't had its first MOT yet and there's no MOT history.

 

Suffice to say, I will be getting some advice on how to proceed with this, legally.

 

But at least it shows the DPF's "age" is about right for the correct mileage!

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