HELP!! P1296 and SAI pump has stopped working

[jonseals]

I need help... I'm going out of my feckin my mind trying to fix this...

 

I own a 2005 Octavia VRS mk1... luv it to bits... 2nd VRS mk1 I've owned and recently I've started having issues. About 3-4 weeks ago I had my engine light come on with error code P1296 and at the same time my Secondary Air Injection pump stopped working all together... whereas it had previous worked religiously from cold start. The car still starts confidently on first turn of the key and runs perfect for 99.9% of the time. I've noticed since this has all happened that it doesn't like to start up after leaving the car turned off for 5 mins or so (for example when filling up at a petrol station)... it's sluggish to start and when it does fire the revs go up to about 1500-200 and stay there for a few seconds before slowly dropping down, and if I touch the throttle to encourage start up it splutters and sounds like it's gonna cut out. Once that clears it goes back to being a perfect motor again.

 

P1296... replaced Engine Coolant Temperature sensor for non genuine sensor... this didn't fix it and error code came back after about a day of clearing it. Installed a genuine OEM new sensor and this didn't fix it either. I've changed the thermostat and the error code still returns after about a day of driving.

 

SAI Pump... I've managed to find that the relay for the SAI is the 100 relay under the bonnet. If I bridge the relay the pump kicks in so I know the pump works. I've swapped out the N112 solenoid (for a Pierburg unit) following a friends recommendation and that didn't fix it. I'm inclined to believe that its a wiring issue but can't seem to find a wiring diagram showing the SAI system anywhere... bought a Haynes manual... searched the internet... but still coming up empty.

 

I've been told that the 2 problems are likely to be unrelated but it's coincidental that both problems arrived at exactly the same time.

 

Please help me!!

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited 7 January, 2018 by jonseals

[nige8021]

Pin 66 is the control for the relay & pin 9 for the N112 valve

[Breezy_Pete]

I wonder if SAI is not being requested because of the temperature error, i.e. the engine ECU thinks the engine is already warm, or something like that?

Check wiring to coolant temperature sensor, and/or see what VCDS reads the coolant temperature sensor as first thing one morning before running engine, and see how it compares to the ambient temperature of the day?

[jonseals]

I had a slight tweak to my remap about a day or two before all this kicked off... I asked the guy who did it whether it could be the mapping that caused it and he assured me it couldn't be.

 

Could it be?

 

I'm not a mechanic and don't have access to VAG-COM or anything similar... just a small plug and play unit to read engine error codes.

 

I found this video clip on YouTube... it's a lengthy clip so don't bother watching it all... but it shows a perfect wiring diagram that I can read and understand. Only problem is that it's for a 2001 Jetta 2.8L, and not for a 1.8T! Does anybody know where I can get a similar wiring diagram for my car?

 

Do we know if there is a fuse between the SAI pump relay and the power source? FYI, I've changed the relay for a new unit and it still doesn't work.

 

It's a right mess! 

Edited 8 January, 2018 by jonseals

[Breezy_Pete]

If bridging the relay socket made the pump run, the power fuse for the pump must be OK.

 

Edit: Nige has already posted a screenshot of the wiring for your car. Power rail E32, for the SAI Relay coil and N112 valve are fed from fuse 43, but so are a bunch of other sensors so you'd have more errors if that were blown.

Power to the pump is from a 60A fuse in the battery fusebox.

Edited 8 January, 2018 by Wino

[jonseals]

Good point about the fuse!

 

So if the pump works... relay’s been replaced... and fuse isn’t blown... then do I assume correctly that it’s got to be down to a signal issue?

 

Either an issue with the engine management or an issue with whatever temperature sensor sends the information to the engine management?

 

Is it the coolant temp sensor or the first lambda sensor that’s responsible for sending the temperature reading to the engine management?

 

Any more ideas what could be causing the P1296 error code... or are we of the opinion that both problems are linked by 1 underlying issue?

 

Thanks for your responses so far. 

[jonseals]

On 1/8/2018 at 11:36, Wino said:

I wonder if SAI is not being requested because of the temperature error, i.e. the engine ECU thinks the engine is already warm, or something like that?

Check wiring to coolant temperature sensor, and/or see what VCDS reads the coolant temperature sensor as first thing one morning before running engine, and see how it compares to the ambient temperature of the day?

 

I have an iPad Mini installed in the dash of my car in place of the normal stereo... pretty cool gadget  I use it for Radio, music downloads, TV, Sat Nav, WiFi hotspot, internet etc etc etc.

 

I also have an OBD2 plug (Kiwi 3) installed with an App downloaded on the iPad to read engine stats and view gauges etc... I connected it all up before starting the car this morning and the OBD2 App showed the coolant temperature at 6 degrees, and the outside temperate on the car's LCD display was also showing as 6 degrees.

 

The one thing that I do notice is that the temp sensor on the iPad App gets up to temp slower than the gauge on the car. It reaches 50 degrees before the needle starts moving on the car gauge (spot on as the car's lowest reading is 50 degrees), but then when the car's gauge hits 90 degrees the iPad App has only reached 75 degrees. The iPad will get up to 90 degrees and holds steady at that temperature during normal driving as it should... just takes longer to get there.

 

 

[Dean]

Really want an iPad install on mine... MightyCarMods!

[Breezy_Pete]

15 hours ago, jonseals said:

the OBD2 App showed the coolant temperature at 6 degrees, and the outside temperate on the car's LCD display was also showing as 6 degrees

 

Can you clear the temperature fault with that App?

If you can, and you do, does the SAI then work until the fault light re-appears?

[jonseals]

2 hours ago, Wino said:

 

Can you clear the temperature fault with that App?

If you can, and you do, does the SAI then work until the fault light re-appears?

I can view fault codes on the iPad but can't delete the codes using the App. I have a hand held fault code reader that I can use to clear codes.

 

If I clear the code nothing changes... pump still doesn't kick in at all... and after 1 or 2 cold starts the code returns.

[SuperbTWM]

I thought it was quite common to delete the SAI pump anyway?

[jonseals]

7 minutes ago, SuperbTWM said:

I thought it was quite common to delete the SAI pump anyway?

It is... I've never really got my head around why people delete SAI, N249, N211 and whatever else they can get their hands on. Surely if everything is working 100% and is maintained and fully functional there wouldn't be any reason to remove these parts? Skoda/VW/Audi etc obviously thought they were necessary otherwise they wouldn't have designed the engine to include them!

 

However, I know there's a problem with my car... I'd rather find and fix the problem rather than just rip stuff out to cover up the problem.

[SuperbTWM]

16 minutes ago, jonseals said:

It is... I've never really got my head around why people delete SAI, N249, N211 and whatever else they can get their hands on. Surely if everything is working 100% and is maintained and fully functional there wouldn't be any reason to remove these parts? Skoda/VW/Audi etc obviously thought they were necessary otherwise they wouldn't have designed the engine to include them!

 

However, I know there's a problem with my car... I'd rather find and fix the problem rather than just rip stuff out to cover up the problem.

 

I totally agree with what your saying, my point was its not the end of the world if you can't get it working, IIRC its only for emissions on a cold start 

 

 

Edited 11 January, 2018 by SuperbTWM

[jonseals]

Bit of time since my last post... I'm pleased to say we've sussed it!

 

It's all down to the crappy Map that was installed - clearly by a cowboy who didn't know what he was doing.

 

I live quite close to RTech in Nuneaton, Leicester... I went down to them and got them to put the Map back to a factory stock Map. That fixed everything! No more engine lights... cold start SAI kicks in every time, and it's back to starting confidently when turned off for a few minutes.

 

I'm just finishing up installing my new air ride kit... so once that's sorted it'll be back to RTech for a proper stage 2 Map. The car's too low on it's current coilovers and they don't think they'll get it on their rollers as it is now.