220 Vs 280 TSI

[penguin17]

Depending on the cost to change, I'm potentially in a position to change my 150 TDI Sportline to a petrol Sportline.   I no longer commute everyday and have found myself using my wife's Fiesta around town as the short, stop-start around town journeys aren't good for a diesel. 

 

The 280 may be in budget (if I forego some options)  but I wanted to know from you guys....how much different (read: 'better') is the 280 vs the 220?  I've driven the 230 Octavia vRS and thought the engine was a gem.  I've driven the Golf R and Cupra 290 and again, excellent engines but this has all been over the space of a year or two, so don't have any back-to-back comparisons.  The Superb is also a very different beast to the other, smaller MQB hatches I've driven with the higher powered TSI engines.  

 

From what I understand the cars have very similar performance in terms of torque and power curve with the 280 coming into it's own under really hard acceleration and at higher speeds.  Though the 220 does without the weight of 4x4 and torque figures are only marginally down on the 280.   Not just in terms of outright grunt; is the 280 worth it just because it does have 4x4, how much of a benefit will that provide?   I also can't help thinking that the backend of a Superb looks so much better with real exhaust pipes 

 

Please bare in mind my last petrol was a 2006 Mk2 Octy vRS so anything that's not diesel will feel sublime at present.  Even the little fiesta with 125ps feels fizzy.   I only ever switched to diesel due to the running costs all coming out of my own pocket.  I no longer do high mileage and any trips I do for work are now expensed so I will be hoping to get something to enjoy driving in, not just something that ticks the budget box.  

 

The Octavia 245 estate may have been a consideration but the order books are closed.  A 300 Cupra ST is also something I'm looking into but I've had a Leon previous to the Superb and didn't like it but again, that was a diesel and a tad

boring. 

 

A Golf R is TWOC candy around these parts and my wife wouldn't entertain one on the drive as we know someone who has been burgled twice, for the keys to theirs. 

 

I've already had a read through this but there's now a lot more 220/280 owners on the forum who may have gone through this process themselves, so I'd be interested to know your thoughts: 

 

 

 

 

Edited 10 January, 2018 by penguin17

[freelunch]

Yeah, I have tail pipe envy, too. You know you want the 280, so get it. Blow those Audi's off the line! 

 

I've been driving the 220 for a year now. Believe me, it's all the car you need. Allow £190 for a pedal box and the 220 is a terrific motor – responsive and quick. Passing artics on the two-lanes is not a problem. And, I've averaged 37 mpg over the last year.

 

However, if bragging rights are important, or you live where you need four wheel drive, get the 280. I'd hate to think of you lying in bed late at night staring at the ceiling wondering...

 

 

I'd say 220: 9/10; 280: 10/10

 

 

[wooyay]

I was going to say that I had this exact dilemma, but saw you linked my original post!

 

I've had my 280 for a year now and I've not had a single "I wish I got the 220 instead" regret.  Don't get me wrong, the 220 is a really great engine but the 280 - combined with 4x4 - is just so effortless.  Around this time of year I normally struggle with grip pulling out into a NSL single carriageway with cold tyres but the Superb has simply shot off down the road like a scolded cat without hesitation.

 

Another 280 benefit is the flaps in the exhaust that operate when giving it some beans.  Not to mention the huge grin you get. 

[kriva]

I’ve only driven the 280, since the 220 isn’t even available here. However, I absolutely love our 280, and the extra little push in the corners from the rear wheels really sold it for me.

It’s a great car, but don’t expect great fuel economy from it ;-) 

[nicknorman]

When my Haldex 4x4 drive failed, it was a complete pain with wheelspin moving off swiftly on damp road junctions/roundabouts etc. So just for the 4x4 I would heartily recommend the 280. It is of course a fantastic engine too!

Edited 10 January, 2018 by nicknorman

[MartiniB]

+ for 280

no wheel spin on wet

visible exhausts pipes

bigger brake discs

- for 280

extra 4k Euros

extra 1l for each 100km

 

about minuses i were informed very well when made order of 220 fwd,

but now my vote will go to 280 4x4

[JR RS]

i test drove both the 220 and the 280 before buying the 220. 

i found there was barely any difference in terms of driveability.

 

99% of the time i'm driving in dry weather, so the amount of times when 4x4 will be of an advantage to me is negligible.

i don't drive the Superb like a hot hatch - so the need for 4x4 grip when exiting corners is not top priority, nor is it at traffic light drag races.

 

if money was not a factor, i'd go for the 280.  but for me it meant paying an extra $6k to $10k. 

t'was not worth it for me. 

yes i miss out on 4x4, but its heavier and uses ever so slightly more fuel.

yes i miss out on "real exhausts".

 

i don't regret getting the 220

[Robbydazzler]

If you live in an urban area I would suggest that you save your money and buy the 220. In normal everyday motoring it will be the equal of the 280. On the other hand you could argue that if you can afford the " best"  (or the beast?) then get it. Well it is how I convinced myself anyway!!!!!!!

[eurotraveller]

You talk about the engines in the Skoda (Octavia or Superb; 220 or 280), Golf and Cupra as gems and excellent. And indeed they are, mainly because they are all the same EA888 engine – also to be found in Audi TT and Porsche Macan among probably several others (e.g. some Passat models).

 

And of course, day to day, you will virtually never ‘need’ the extra 60ps. Fun, obviously, but that’s a very personal scale of priorities.

 

So why not narrow it down to 4x4 vs. more toys? That would still be a very tough one for me now that I’ve enjoyed 4x4 and the absence of any wheel-spin. Before having had 4x4 I would have said that options were more important and, considering all the cruising miles I do, they probably still would be.

 

PS: Also, if you want more power at a later time, you can always add it.

Edited 11 January, 2018 by eurotraveller

[penguin17]

36 minutes ago, eurotraveller said:

You talk about the engines in the Skoda (Octavia or Superb; 220 or 280), Golf and Cupra as gems and excellent. And indeed they are, mainly because they are all the same EA888 engine – also to be found in Audi TT and Porsche Macan among probably several others (e.g. some Passat models).

 

And of course, day to day, you will virtually never ‘need’ the extra 60ps. Fun, obviously, but that’s a very personal scale of priorities.

 

So why not narrow it down to 4x4 vs. more toys? That would still be a very tough one for me now that I’ve enjoyed 4x4 and the absence of any wheel-spin. Before having had 4x4 I would have said that options were more important and, considering all the cruising miles I do, they probably still would be.

 

PS: Also, if you want more power at a later time, you can always add it.

Good advice, thanks and I'm already thinking it's a case of do I want/need 4x4 or would I like to keep the spec/options I have now, which I probably can't afford on the 280.    As you say, all the same engines just different 'tunes' and from what I understand the 220 engines are often pushing closer to 250 from the factory anyway.  Ah there I go again, numbers!!! As I've already read several times on here there's actually not much between the engines for everyday usage.   Having been so ruled by economy and fuel budget for so long I'm inclined to just think "fu** it, get the 280 and enjoy it"!  

 

Some things I have decided; I'd like to keep the Vega wheels from my current car as I'd like to keep hold of the Vredestein Quatrac 5's I've just fitted.  I'd also like to see if I can get the Osram CBI xenon bulbs swapped too; such a massive improvement.  I've found myself using HBA much less on rural roads.  I've also seen on the configurator that Meteor grey is now available and freebie colour too, that's a no brainer as I love that colour and I think it will look great with the Sportline's gloss black trim. 

 

I'm just waiting to see if the numbers stack up and if it's doable.  I didn't plan on swapping my current Superb for another 3-4 years anyway and I've only had it for 10 months so it just may not be feasible just yet.  

 

Thanks for the responses, really helpful 

[Howardv]

50 minutes ago, eurotraveller said:

You talk about the engines in the Skoda (Octavia or Superb; 220 or 280), Golf and Cupra as gems and excellent. And indeed they are, mainly because they are all the same EA888 engine – also to be found in Audi TT and Porsche Macan among probably several others (e.g. some Passat models).

Same EA888 but still different   (Turbo, injectors etc.)

 

My car have all the options and toys, but as long as I had ACC and DCC I would easily sacrificed a lot of the extras for the 280 engine and 4x4. All comes down to personal preference. 

[edwards]

I had the same dilemma. In the end, I went 280 as otherwise I'd always have been wondering  Don't have mine yet but I can spin the front wheels easily on my 172ps 2.0t petrol Vectra even with TC and ESP when pulling out in the damp, so I had concerns about 220ps just through two wheels. Also, real exhausts and smile factor  come into it  but I don't do much more than 8000 miles a year so fuel economy isn't a big factor.

[Rainmaker]

This question has come up a few times on here, so you may find some 'new' opinions via search. I have a 220 and I absolutely love it. Large, fast, stable, practical, and (importantly in my book) inconspicuous. It's better on fuel than the 280 thanks to slightly longer gearing (1,750rpm at 70mph give or take, compared to about 2,400rpm in the 280 iirc), is just as fast in daily traffic (the extra power of the 280 comes at the top end), and is cheaper to buy. It also has all the same toys  comparing trim level to trim level (except AWD), but lacks the visible exhaust pipes. So obviously, given the choice of 220 with toys or a 280 without, I'd take the 280.

 

I didn't have a choice when I ordered mine, but the 280 would have it for me. What toys would you miss exactly, if you went to the 280 instead of the 220? Genuine question as I don't know what differences you're looking at. For me the Superb is one car where AWD really tips the balance for pressing on, as it's a large car with rubber band tyres and VAG suspension (nuff said). The extra couple of quid in petrol a month is nothing, but the extra stability, security, speed and power - not to mention smiles - push it for the 280 imho. Plus, proper exhausts. Your call, and I can promise you the 220 would never disappoint if you went that route (as I said, I do love mine), but those few times the car thumps and bangs as the wheels spin and the dash flashes (especially turning out of junctions, roundabouts or slips with some steering angle and throttle applied) you'd always hanker for AWD. On the other hand, if you did get the 220 it happens so infrequently - and can be driven around easily without real world performance penalty - that it's not enough to spoil the experience or make you hate it. Tough call. 

[ahenners]

Without a high mileage and fuel concern, I'd take the 280. 220 is a bit better on fuel than the 280 as discussed, but the 280 4x4 is a more "complete" car. What options would you have to lose in order to get the 280? I'd rate Canton, Heated front seats, heated windscreen and DCC as options definitely worth taking.

[penguin17]

Just now, ahenners said:

Without a high mileage and fuel concern, I'd take the 280. 220 is a bit better on fuel than the 280 as discussed, but the 280 4x4 is a more "complete" car. What options would you have to lose in order to get the 280? I'd rate Canton, Heated front seats, heated windscreen and DCC as options definitely worth taking.

Indeed.  This is now the same thing I'm thinking.  

 

What I currently have and would like to retain is: 

Canton 

Heated Screen

Heated washers

Electronic boot

Heated seats

Front parking sensors

TSR - which I've then used to enable HBA and it also opens up Lane Assist (which I don't use)

 

Doing a bit of man maths it shouldn't make that much of a difference TBH but I need to take into consideration the overall cost of change, not just the book price of the options I'd like.  

 

DCC is something I've thought about and something that is often mentioned as 'the option to have' in reviews of the other high output TSI VAG cars but TBH I've never found the suspension set up in the Sportline to be that wallowy - for those with DCC what makes it that much better and given the Sportline is already 15mm lower than standard and slightly firmer, is DCC necessary?  

[Howardv]

18 minutes ago, penguin17 said:

is DCC necessary?  

No, but I find it nice to have. When cruising with the family it's nice to use a comfy setting on the suspension, then you don't feel all the small bumps, and "bad" roads are not that annoying  When I'm alone in the car and want to drive a bit more aggressive -> sport mode 

[freelunch]

I was spared the stress of option selection when I bought my demo and all the work was done for me. Is DCC necessary?

 

I've tried all the modes: Eco is not for me, I don't like the free-wheeling. Comfort is nice for smooth, flat motorway tours, or town speed bumps. Normal is fine. Sport is nice for rough country lanes and if you like pushing it through the twisties, but the car is really too big and heavy for much of that. Individual? I've set up a combination and it's okay, too.

 

Honestly? I've been driving around for the last month in Normal, just so the Mode switch doesn't light up. If Normal is the same as the non-DCC suspension, I'd say that's fine for 95% of driving conditions. If I specced a car today, and finance was an issue, I'd leave it off. Besides, if it's too soft for you, you can always buy after-market springs. You can't easily/cheaply modify the DCC suspension.

 

Honestly? If I was buying a new Dragon Green or Velvet Red Sportline tomorrow, I'd get the 280.

 

What does it add to the cost? 15%? As my dear departed father found: you can't take it with you.

[wooyay]

49 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

It's better on fuel than the 280 thanks to slightly longer gearing (1,750rpm at 70mph give or take, compared to about 2,400rpm in the 280 iirc)

 

This was one of the concerns that I had when trying to decide between the 220 and 280 - engine revs at 70 as I didn't want it to be screaming on long journeys and I can honestly say that even with the higher gearing of the 280 you simply don't notice it.  The car feels so much more refined than my previous Octavia CD TDI at 70...

 

I'm not really worried about fuel consumption so don't sit there watching it but I have noticed that a nice blast down the motorway mid to upper 30s are easily achievable (even when fully laden with passengers and luggage).  Unfortunately most of my driving involves slow congested rural roads between home and work but even then the car seems to manage a long term average somewhere between 32-35 depending on the time of year.

 

I don't doubt that the 220 is better in this respect but the 280 is nowhere near as bad as I was expecting.

[wooyay]

40 minutes ago, penguin17 said:

What I currently have and would like to retain is: 

Heated washers

 

Do you really need this?  I don't have these and they've not caused any problem.  Providing the screenwash solution is appropriate to the conditions I've never had them freeze on me...

Edited 11 January, 2018 by wooyay

[penguin17]

1 hour ago, Rainmaker said:

This question has come up a few times on here, so you may find some 'new' opinions via search. I have a 220 and I absolutely love it. Large, fast, stable, practical, and (importantly in my book) inconspicuous. It's better on fuel than the 280 thanks to slightly longer gearing (1,750rpm at 70mph give or take, compared to about 2,400rpm in the 280 iirc), is just as fast in daily traffic (the extra power of the 280 comes at the top end), and is cheaper to buy. It also has all the same toys  comparing trim level to trim level (except AWD), but lacks the visible exhaust pipes. So obviously, given the choice of 220 with toys or a 280 without, I'd take the 280.

 

I didn't have a choice when I ordered mine, but the 280 would have it for me. What toys would you miss exactly, if you went to the 280 instead of the 220? Genuine question as I don't know what differences you're looking at. For me the Superb is one car where AWD really tips the balance for pressing on, as it's a large car with rubber band tyres and VAG suspension (nuff said). The extra couple of quid in petrol a month is nothing, but the extra stability, security, speed and power - not to mention smiles - push it for the 280 imho. Plus, proper exhausts. Your call, and I can promise you the 220 would never disappoint if you went that route (as I said, I do love mine), but those few times the car thumps and bangs as the wheels spin and the dash flashes (especially turning out of junctions, roundabouts or slips with some steering angle and throttle applied) you'd always hanker for AWD. On the other hand, if you did get the 220 it happens so infrequently - and can be driven around easily without real world performance penalty - that it's not enough to spoil the experience or make you hate it. Tough call. 

 

Thanks for the response Rainmaker, I was hoping to get your take on this.  Of all the people I expected to help me pick the 220 you and @freelunch have let me down and pointed me at the 280!  You obviously know your onions when it comes to driving; I've never had 4x4 before and often think that it's misinterpreted as giving more grip when in fact grip is dictated by footprint of those 4 little rubber things at each corner of the car, traction is another matter.  What, in the real world, will I appreciate about 4x4? The biggest benefit I can foresee is poor weather, conditions on rural roads.  4x4 and all-season tyres would be a boon in that respect. 

 

I've posted above regarding the options I'd like to carry over to another Superb.  Out of all of them, I'd lose the electronic boot but the others I find work for me and are worth it (if I can keep them)

 

 

3 minutes ago, wooyay said:

 

This was one of the concerns that I had when trying to decide between the 220 and 280 - engine revs at 70 as I didn't want it to be screaming on long journeys and I can honestly say that even with the higher gearing of the 280 you simply don't notice it.  The car feels so much more refined than my previous Octavia CD TDI at 70...

 

I'm not really worried about fuel consumption so don't sit there watching it but I have noticed that a nice blast down the motorway mid to upper 30s are easily achievable (even when fully laden with passengers and luggage).  Unfortunately most of my driving involves slow congested rural roads between home and work but even then the car seems to manage a long term average somewhere between 32-35 depending on the time of year.

 

I don't doubt that the 220 is better in this respect but the 280 is nowhere near as bad as I was expecting.

 That's good to know, thanks.  TBH I'm already gonna take a hit on 20-30mpg so another ~5 isn't gonna kill me.  This is a heart over head change.  

[penguin17]

28 minutes ago, freelunch said:

I was spared the stress of option selection when I bought my demo and all the work was done for me. Is DCC necessary?

 

I've tried all the modes: Eco is not for me, I don't like the free-wheeling. Comfort is nice for smooth, flat motorway tours, or town speed bumps. Normal is fine. Sport is nice for rough country lanes and if you like pushing it through the twisties, but the car is really too big and heavy for much of that. Individual? I've set up a combination and it's okay, too.

 

Honestly? I've been driving around for the last month in Normal, just so the Mode switch doesn't light up. If Normal is the same as the non-DCC suspension, I'd say that's fine for 95% of driving conditions. If I specced a car today, and finance was an issue, I'd leave it off. Besides, if it's too soft for you, you can always buy after-market springs. You can't easily/cheaply modify the DCC suspension.

 

Honestly? If I was buying a new Dragon Green or Velvet Red Sportline tomorrow, I'd get the 280.

 

What does it add to the cost? 15%? As my dear departed father found: you can't take it with you.

Indeed.  I've driven the standard Superb and with a heavier 4x4 system I'd say having the ability to firm up the front end would be a real bonus as it's a bit squidgy but the Sportline is a little firmer though not harsh.  The Superb is never going to be a track day weapon and nor should it be.  Overall I'm very pleased with the Sporline setup and think it's perfectly compliant for every day use as well as a bit of spirited driving when the roads/mood take you.  I'd be interesed to know if 'Normal' on DCC is the same as non-DCC too. 

 

I thought Meteor grey was  freebie colour but I've looked harder and it actually isn't.  It's just a flat colour so listed with white, which is free so I assumed the same for the MG. 

Edited 11 January, 2018 by penguin17

[penguin17]

11 minutes ago, wooyay said:

 

Do you really need this?  I don't have these and they've not caused any problem.  Providing the screenwash solution is appropriate to the conditions I've never had them freeze on me...

The more I think about it...no.  

[xman]

1 hour ago, wooyay said:

 Unfortunately most of my driving involves slow congested rural roads between home and work 

 

That's why you need 280 horses. 

 

If this was a length thing, I can say my wife thinks 150 is plenty. 

[edwards]

The heated jets are £50 option so almost nothing. Watch how the options tot up as if you go over £40k list then your road fund licence is £310 more per year for 5 years, so £450 a year not £140.

 

 

 

[Sw1]

44 minutes ago, edwards said:

The heated jets are £50 option so almost nothing. Watch how the options tot up as if you go over £40k list then your road fund licence is £310 more per year for 5 years, so £450 a year not £140.

 

 

 

When I specced and ordered my 280, I was going to add the Sunroof and a couple of others bits but refused due to this disgraceful tax, it's not even about doing the right thing i.e. heavy polluting vs envirmentally friendly.

 

I kept my order just under 40K to make sure I wasn't going to be fleeced, even though the discounted price I paid was 32.5K the tax is at the RRP irrespective of the discounts.

 

Anyway, I'm massively happy with my 280, once you get over the shock of MPG when coming from a diesel its awesome. The grip is also fantastic compared to my A6 which was non quattro

Edited 11 January, 2018 by Sw1