256mm to 288mm brake upgrade

[sam_white]

256mm to 288mm brake upgrade

Having just completed this on my own car, I thought it may help others to put the information together all in one place for future reference.

This is definitely the biggest home mechanic job I've completed so far.

My GreenLine 2 estate originally shipped from the factory with the FS III (FS3) front calipers and 256mm brakes. Unlike many run of the mill Fabias, including Montes, it came with a rear disk setup, identical to the VRS.

The original disks and pads having covered 70k miles were looking tired and with an MOT looming at Christmas it seemed a good idea to replace the pads and discs.

I figured this was the perfect time to swap the calipers and go up a disk size at the same time. A local yard had a written off 30k mile Monte just in and they took off the calipers and hoses for me which I collected.

 

Here's how the discs compare in size:

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/jpVHIKIVMXnF0Mln1

 

The 288mm discs are also thicker:

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/jseGf9KLdDcxvbXx1

 

A couple of weeks later having done some research and poking around under the car I realised that the caliper carrier on the existing brakes was moulded into the wheel hub - Luckily the scrap yard still had the hubs from the Monte the calipers had come from, so these were also purchased (along with the aluminium pedal rubbers).

Fast forward a couple of months and it was time to get cracking on the project. The yard had left a rounded off track rod end on the hub so this was sawn off. The old pads and springs discarded from the calipers and the disks removed from the hubs.

A spline tool kit was purchased from Machine Mart so I had an M14 spline tool to remove the hub to strut pinch bolts, along with an 18mm socket.

I also picked up a set of 1/2" to Allen (Hex) key tools, so I had a 7mm for undoing the slide bars from the caliper carriers.

At this stage I tried and failed to remove the disc splash guards from the hubs. The Torx 30 bolts are accessible each end, but the center bolt is tucked away behind the rotating bit of the hub and none of my tools fitted.

Everything was sanded and wire brushed to remove muck and loose paint, the hubs painted in black Hammerite and the new calipers and carriers in high temperature red.

Mtec brakes then supplied new drilled and grooved 288mm discs, in anti-corrosion gold with Mintex pads. At this stage I was unsure if the car had a pad wear sensor or not, so I bought pads with it included.

Trade Parts Specialists (TPS) supplied new caliper springs and pinch bolts for the hub to strut as these looked in poor shape from the donor.

All threads in the hubs and bolts were cleaned up and it all trial fitted successfully one cold dark evening in the shed.

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/zBlcFv0Su2jkXEuu1

 

At this stage it was ready to get to work on the car. Luckily a friend offered his driveway and assistance.

So, one Sunday in mid December the car was driven over and we got to work.

Initially, wheels off, car jacked up and axle stands under. The old pads, discs and calipers all came off ok. We clamped the flexi hoses with mole grips and sockets from a socket set.

At this point we realised we needed some extra tools - Back to Machine Mart for a 36mm 1/2" drive bihex socket for the driveshaft nuts and an 18mm spanner to undo the track rod ends.

Tools in hand, turns out the driveshaft nuts are tight. Couldn't move them with the car up in the air, so discs and wheels went back on and it was lowered onto the ground so they could be undone.

Once loosened off, car back up in the air again and wheels off. Turns out the driveshaft nuts are sacrificial and once undone need to be replaced. One driveshaft came out easily, the passenger side needed a gear puller to push it out.

At this stage the driver's side trackrod end was undone ok. The passenger side jammed on the threads whilst being undone and wouldn't move. Even holding the middle with an allen key it wouldn't budge, so it was unscrewed from the track rod.

Tip: Use plenty of oil on these and gently work the nuts back and forward to remove them!

Also at this point the lower balljoints were carefully undone, without them jamming.

Tip: Don't bother! The lower wishbone can be easily levered out of the way and the balljoints dealt with indoors or somewhere warm!

The old hubs were then hammered off the car and the ball joints removed from the wishbones.

This took around 6 hours to strip the car to this stage and we called it a day. At the end we were left with this:

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/sHRMstXpRwf9Vvpa2

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/bdOxNpib4bgghYrU2

 

The removed hubs looked like this:

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ENgP8qwyLGBwgSrx2

 

A replacement track rod end and new driveshaft nuts were ordered from TPS which arrived a couple of days later.

Assembly of both sides went smoothly. The cleaned and refurbished parts went on ok, new track rod end on passenger side along with pads, discs etc.

Tip: The existing brake hoses are the same as the Monte parts and didn't need replacing.

I had already slackened and removed the bleed nipples so both sides were bled and seemed ok.

With everything assembled the wheels were put back on and the car lowered. The driver's side was fine but the passenger side was off, far too much negative camber. A close inspection found that the wheel was hard up against the shock. Evidently something was wrong.
At this point, I had other things to get on with so the car was put on hold.

A visit back to the yard for a chat confirmed that the hub could well be bent, as the donor car had been whacked down the passenger side, but they had nothing else to swap it with.

As it was nearly Christmas, several phone calls and they still had nothing available, so another passenger side hub was purchased on eBay. This time from a VRS rather than a Monte.

This arrived with the lower ball joint attached so this was removed. At this stage I also noticed that the disc brake splash guard was different - who knows why?

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Zxcc9EYL3gMR19jF3

 

I managed to cut down a T30 screwdrive bit and used this in a right angled wrench to get to the middle screw and swap the back plates over from the bent Monte hub to the VRS one. The casting was the same part number but the VRS hub seems to have additional reinforcement around the caliper carrier bolts.

The VRS hub was duly cleaned and painted.

Tip: I'd left my M14 spline tool in the car and the hub was at home. Luckily a 3/4" end from a ratchet spanner worked well enough instead.

When compared side by side with the Monte hub, it was clear the Monte hub was bent. Luckily the yard refunded me for it, despite the purchase taking place in August and it now being January!

 

Once fitted the wheel was fine and looking good. Initially we fitted the old hub nuts on to make sure everything was ok. Once satisfied, these were taken off and the new ones fitted.

 

Quick test run and it seemed ok - noisy brakes and steering wheel was off!

Booked into the dealership for the Friday for MOT and service. Got some funny looks when I said I'd changed the calipers and hubs ....

Asked about an alignment but apparently this isn't part of the MOT and they wanted £75 for it. I said no ...

Went through the MOT fine and the dealers even said I'd done a good job on the brakes. HMT in Norwich sorted the alignment straight after for £30.

Pretty happy now it's all sorted but taken a ton of time and effort to get it all done. Car was also out of MOT for a couple of weeks so I couldn't even really test drive it!

Worth it? Yes - tricky job but would be a lot easier the second time around.

 

Here's how they look once the gold has worn off the braking surface:

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/g9x4Nl8SUl6PEEcj1

 

And with the calipers:

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/jo2AckTF6idlSXGJ2

 

Can't work out the best way of hosting these pics at the mo, so may go back and reupload/edit if there is interest.

 

Cheers, Sam

 

[Chibakun]

So are those front brakes now the same as a Fabia Vrs?

[sam_white]

Edit: Inline pics now visible.

 

256mm to 288mm brake upgrade

Having just completed this on my own car, I thought it may help others to put the information together all in one place for future reference.

This is definitely the biggest home mechanic job I've completed so far.

My GreenLine 2 estate originally shipped from the factory with the FS III (FS3) front calipers and 256mm brakes. Unlike many run of the mill Fabias, including Montes, it came with a rear disk setup, identical to the VRS.

The original disks and pads having covered 70k miles were looking tired and with an MOT looming at Christmas it seemed a good idea to replace the pads and discs.

I figured this was the perfect time to swap the calipers and go up a disk size at the same time. A local yard had a written off 30k mile Monte just in and they took off the calipers and hoses for me which I collected.

 

Here's how the discs compare in size - 256 at top, 288 bottom:

 

 

The 288mm discs are also thicker - 288mm on the right:

 

 

A couple of weeks later having done some research and poking around under the car I realised that the caliper carrier on the existing brakes was moulded into the wheel hub - Luckily the scrap yard still had the hubs from the Monte the calipers had come from, so these were also purchased (along with the aluminium pedal rubbers).

Fast forward a couple of months and it was time to get cracking on the project. The yard had left a rounded off track rod end on the hub so this was sawn off. The old pads and springs discarded from the calipers and the disks removed from the hubs.

A spline tool kit was purchased from Machine Mart so I had an M14 spline tool to remove the hub to strut pinch bolts, along with an 18mm socket.

I also picked up a set of 1/2" to Allen (Hex) key tools, so I had a 7mm for undoing the slide bars from the caliper carriers.

At this stage I tried and failed to remove the disc splash guards from the hubs. The Torx 30 bolts are accessible each end, but the center bolt is tucked away behind the rotating bit of the hub and none of my tools fitted.

Everything was sanded and wire brushed to remove muck and loose paint, the hubs painted in black Hammerite and the new calipers and carriers in high temperature red.

Mtec brakes then supplied new drilled and grooved 288mm discs, in anti-corrosion gold with Mintex pads. At this stage I was unsure if the car had a pad wear sensor or not, so I bought pads with it included.

Trade Parts Specialists (TPS) supplied new caliper springs and pinch bolts for the hub to strut as these looked in poor shape from the donor.

All threads in the hubs and bolts were cleaned up and it all trial fitted successfully one cold dark evening in the shed.

 

 

At this stage it was ready to get to work on the car. Luckily a friend offered his driveway and assistance.

So, one Sunday in mid December the car was driven over and we got to work.

Initially, wheels off, car jacked up and axle stands under. The old pads, discs and calipers all came off ok. We clamped the flexi hoses with mole grips and sockets from a socket set.

At this point we realised we needed some extra tools - Back to Machine Mart for a 36mm 1/2" drive bihex socket for the driveshaft nuts and an 18mm spanner to undo the track rod ends.

Tools in hand, turns out the driveshaft nuts are tight. Couldn't move them with the car up in the air, so discs and wheels went back on and it was lowered onto the ground so they could be undone.

Once loosened off, car back up in the air again and wheels off. Turns out the driveshaft nuts are sacrificial and once undone need to be replaced. One driveshaft came out easily, the passenger side needed a gear puller to push it out.

At this stage the driver's side trackrod end was undone ok. The passenger side jammed on the threads whilst being undone and wouldn't move. Even holding the middle with an allen key it wouldn't budge, so it was unscrewed from the track rod.

Tip: Use plenty of oil on these and gently work the nuts back and forward to remove them!

Also at this point the lower balljoints were carefully undone, without them jamming.

Tip: Don't bother! The lower wishbone can be easily levered out of the way and the balljoints dealt with indoors or somewhere warm!

The old hubs were then hammered off the car and the ball joints removed from the wishbones.

This took around 6 hours to strip the car to this stage and we called it a day. At the end we were left with this-

 

Passenger side:

 

Driver's side:

 

The removed hubs looked like this:

 

 

A replacement track rod end and new driveshaft nuts were ordered from TPS which arrived a couple of days later.

Assembly of both sides went smoothly. The cleaned and refurbished parts went on ok, new track rod end on passenger side along with pads, discs etc.

Tip: The existing brake hoses are the same as the Monte parts and didn't need replacing.

I had already slackened and removed the bleed nipples so both sides were bled and seemed ok.

With everything assembled the wheels were put back on and the car lowered. The driver's side was fine but the passenger side was off, far too much negative camber. A close inspection found that the wheel was hard up against the shock. Evidently something was wrong.
At this point, I had other things to get on with so the car was put on hold.

A visit back to the yard for a chat confirmed that the hub could well be bent, as the donor car had been whacked down the passenger side, but they had nothing else to swap it with.

As it was nearly Christmas, several phone calls and they still had nothing available, so another passenger side hub was purchased on eBay. This time from a VRS rather than a Monte.

This arrived with the lower ball joint attached so this was removed. At this stage I also noticed that the disc brake splash guard was different - who knows why? The VRS guard is a slightly larger diameter and has a different pattern in the pressing.

 

VRS splash guard on top - Monte below - the Monte guard matches my originals too.

 

I managed to cut down a T30 screwdrive bit and used this in a right angled wrench to get to the middle screw and swap the back plates over from the bent Monte hub to the VRS one. The casting was the same part number but the VRS hub seems to have additional reinforcement around the caliper carrier bolts.

The VRS hub was duly cleaned and painted.

Tip: I'd left my M14 spline tool in the car and the hub was at home. Luckily a 3/4" end from a ratchet spanner worked well enough instead.

When compared side by side with the Monte hub, it was clear the Monte hub was bent. Luckily the yard refunded me for it, despite the purchase taking place in August and it now being January!

 

Once fitted the wheel was fine and looking good. Initially we fitted the old hub nuts on to make sure everything was ok. Once satisfied, these were taken off and the new ones fitted.

 

Quick test run and it seemed ok - noisy brakes and steering wheel was off!

Booked into the dealership for the Friday for MOT and service. Got some funny looks when I said I'd changed the calipers and hubs ....

Asked about an alignment but apparently this isn't part of the MOT and they wanted £75 for it. I said no ...

Went through the MOT fine and the dealers even said I'd done a good job on the brakes. HMT in Norwich sorted the alignment straight after for £30.

Pretty happy now it's all sorted but taken a ton of time and effort to get it all done. Car was also out of MOT for a couple of weeks so I couldn't even really test drive it!

Worth it? Yes - tricky job but would be a lot easier the second time around.

 

Here's how they look once the gold has worn off the braking surface:

 

 

And with the calipers - still have trims for the nuts to refit and the center cap:

 

 

Figured out how to get a decent URL out of Google so pics now inline.

 

Cheers, Sam

 

[sam_white]

5 hours ago, Chibakun said:

So are those front brakes now the same as a Fabia Vrs?

 

Yes. As far as I can tell, Monte Carlo and the VRS model all have identical front brakes. Cheers, Sam

[mrgf]

...And after all that, the stopping distance at 30mph is decreased by?

[Ootohere]

sam_white, 

All Monte Carlo do not have the same front discs as a Mk2 vRS Fabia. 

Not all Monte Carlo have the same front discs / brakes.

[sam_white]

On ‎21‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 20:42, AwaoffSki said:

sam_white, 

All Monte Carlo do not have the same front discs as a Mk2 vRS Fabia. 

Not all Monte Carlo have the same front discs / brakes.

 

Brakes from a Monte Carlo need to be either from a Diesel, or from the 1.2 TSI 105 - Seems that I was lucky the petrol Monte I found was a 105bhp model. These seem to be the most common around these parts, I still haven't seen a Monte around here with the FSIII calipers but the lesser engined versions will have these it seems.

 

All Monte Carlo Tech editions will have the correct calipers, as it seems these were only sold with diesel or 1.2 TSI 105 engines. VRS is the other obvious donor.

Edited 14 February, 2018 by sam_white