Engine revs without foot on accelarator

[DaveLees]

31 minutes ago, SoupDragon said:

Silbury Skoda have just phoned to tell me that they have the software update for the over-revving problem and can update my car. I have arraigned to get it done on 4th April. I will let you know what happens.

Snap-Silbury have phoned me and I'm booked in for the same day. 

[BigKev2]

My car is booked In for the software update at 10.00 tomorrow (Friday) . Watch this space

[BigKev2]

SFTWARE UPDATE DONE - FEEDBACK.

Software update done and  its much better. To explain fully I will say how it was, how it is now, and how it affects pull away

 

BEFORE:

Lift clutch, revs jump to 1700 - 1900 from 800

 If you keep the clutch at that point (lifted but not yet at bite point) the revs stay at that level. As you continue to lift clutch and bite point is reached the revs fall as load is put on engine. Noise, clutch wear, angry driver.

 

HOW IT IS NOW:

Lift clutch, revs flick up to 1300 - 1400 and quickly fall to 1000. This is with the clutch held at the pre bite point. In practice you lift the clutch in one movement so the flick up to 1300 is not noticeable. So I would say that if the car was like this when I got it I would not have noticed that it had a 'pull away assist.'

 

So for me that's the end of the Pull Away revs issue. I did discuss the hesitant nature of the car with the head technician. It appears that emissions and MPG rule in the car world. Cars run on a much leaner mixture than they did years ago. This leaness does seem to make itself felt when pulling away - like not enough choke for those that remember pulling that knob on the dashboard in their youth. I also think the Octavia has low gearing, especially first gear. As soon as the car is rolling you feel the need to get into 2nd gear as it sort of nose dives as the gear is too low to make progress. Anyway I'm not losing sleep over that issue, I will bask in the smugness of my non revving pull aways.    

[Gabbo]

Great Result & exactly how the pull-away assist should be so you don't know it is there!

[MarcReed]

Still waiting for my dealer to arrange a booking..  have they provided a technical description of the over-revving fault, i.e. what was fundamentally wrong?

[BigKev2]

The dealer didn't say what had gone wrong and I didn't ask. I don't think the dealer will know as they are likely to be given a code to punch into the cars brain. Its not like the old days where a part was replaced or an adjustment made. He did say that when he drove the car into the workshop the over revving was very noticeable. 

[SoupDragon]

Big Kev 2 Congrats, enjoy the basking, you have done well there and you have helped me too. I look forward to having an engine that does not want to annoy the neighbours. As for the jumpiness when cold, you have described just what I thought, the choke was not pulled out enough, but it clears when the engine warms which only takes a minute or two. And I remember how stinky cars were on a cold morning with the choke fully out. You are right about how low geared first is, you have to change up almost immediately. I think it is something to do with how gutless the engine is below about 1200 rpm.  How long did the job take? I have been told to allow for up to two hours and I will just wait and drink their coffee while the job is done.  DevLees, maybe I will meet you at Silbury Skoda, I am booked in at 1pm on the 4th April.

[BigKev2]

It didn't take long to do. I went to the local Mini dealer 200 yards away (spent 20 grand ! ) when I came back car was done.

Isnt it strange being retired. When I was at work taking a day off to get car sorted was a pain. Now its oh I am going to meet nice people who will give me a scone and a cup of coffee. Some dealerships are just push push push. Pulmans are great, so relaxed and a nice café.

I will have to find something else to winge about so I can come home from the pub and check Briskoda.  

[DaveLees]

1 hour ago, SoupDragon said:

Big Kev 2 Congrats, enjoy the basking, you have done well there and you have helped me too. I look forward to having an engine that does not want to annoy the neighbours. As for the jumpiness when cold, you have described just what I thought, the choke was not pulled out enough, but it clears when the engine warms which only takes a minute or two. And I remember how stinky cars were on a cold morning with the choke fully out. You are right about how low geared first is, you have to change up almost immediately. I think it is something to do with how gutless the engine is below about 1200 rpm.  How long did the job take? I have been told to allow for up to two hours and I will just wait and drink their coffee while the job is done.  DevLees, maybe I will meet you at Silbury Skoda, I am booked in at 1pm on the 4th April.

SoupDragon I'm booked in for 1030 so they can practice on my car before getting onto yours! I've been told to allow a couple of hours so we will get the garage to take us to the shopping centre in Cramlington for a coffee and 'the boss' can have a look around the shops!

[ettlz]

The 1.2 TSI in the Fabia does something similar but you have to put a little pressure on the accelerator.

 

0. Car stationary, in 1st.

1. Set the gas nice for a pull away at 1250rpm, according to how we're all taught to drive.

2. Lift the clutch. Well before biting point the revs go up to 1750 without my command. So this is not anti-stall! Whisky Tango... Makes me look like a learner.

3. Vehicle starts to move, then revs drop back to 1200-ish and I think it's bogged down.

 

What's actually happening here is the rev boost 'assist' is cutting out at 3mph, so returning the revs to what I actually asked for. The trick is to remember to increase accelerator pressure as the clutch is lifted.

 

Doesn't help that it's a horrible Bosch Hall effect accelerator pedal: too soft, too little friction, no hysteresis, and with a ghastly big idle zone that takes up 5% of its travel.

 

I've had no reply from Skoda as to why this stupid, undocumented anti-feature is in the ECU firmware. Possible theories:

1. Anti-moron device to account for poor driving practises?

2. Vibration reduction because there might be some nasty resonance at around 1500rpm and they'd rather workaround it in software than use properly-damped engine mounts?

3. It's trying to get the engine on turbo boost so that it feels more lively as you pull away?

Edited 29 March, 2018 by ettlz

[Octy0GG]

Looks like quite a few Skodas are afflicted by this 'assist feature' and it's just that the application in the 1.5 is a bit more extreme, have to confess that I have not done a lot of research but wondering if other manufacturers are treating their customers to similar assist features.

[ettlz]

4 hours ago, Octy0GG said:

Looks like quite a few Skodas are afflicted by this 'assist feature' and it's just that the application in the 1.5 is a bit more extreme, have to confess that I have not done a lot of research but wondering if other manufacturers are treating their customers to similar assist features.

 

It would be nice if they just put it in the manual. (Yes, some of us read it!) It's totally befuddling for the more attentive driver who cares about smoothness. Which I do. A great deal.

 

Then again, the manual is riddled with rubbish (typos, stuff that's been copied verbatim from VAG manuals 20 years ago, instructions on topping up oil that say "add portions of 0.5l" -- yay, tell your customers to overfill why don't you?!).

Edited 30 March, 2018 by ettlz

[AGFalco]

Yes the anti stall assist feature appears in many other cars including non VAG cars.

More so in cars with small CC petrol engines.

 

I have found a way to use this to my advantage in my Fabia III.

 

I use no throttle input when bringing up the clutch in 1st or reverse, unless you are on a slope.

I then apply the throttle after the clutch is fully up. This stops any jerkiness for me.

 

It also helps with clutch life as you are slipping it less.

It can take some practice to start with but soon becomes second nature.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Thanks AG Falco

 

[ettlz]

1 hour ago, AGFalco said:

I have found a way to use this to my advantage in my Fabia III.

 

I use no throttle input when bringing up the clutch in 1st or reverse, unless you are on a slope.

I then apply the throttle after the clutch is fully up. This stops any jerkiness for me.

 

 

I find this causes too much nasty vibration in my Fabia III, and as soon as I apply accelerator power it bounces and jerks. I'm not sure doing this is good for the DMF either. I am yet to convince the service technicians that the engine mounts really are defective (again), but all I get is no defect found/they all do that* --- yeah, likely story.

 

Still --- 1800rpm from the clutch position sensor alone? At least it's not that bad...

 

*Which is really poor way to do engineering, this could be a widespread fault which most drivers are too insensate to spot.

Edited 30 March, 2018 by ettlz

[AGFalco]

2 hours ago, ettlz said:

m not sure doing this is good for the DMF either

 

Had a customer complain of a clunk whenever they started off in first.

I did a test drive with him in the passenger seat and no clunk was noticed.

 

But when the customer then drove the car the clunk was back.

He was treating the clutch like an on/off switch and not being smooth enough.

 

Also the throttle needs to be applied smoothly.

I don't think that the Fabia III TSI engine has a DMF?

 

Thanks AG Falco

[ettlz]

23 minutes ago, AGFalco said:

 

Had a customer complain of a clunk whenever they started off in first.

I did a test drive with him in the passenger seat and no clunk was noticed.

 

But when the customer then drove the car the clunk was back.

He was treating the clutch like an on/off switch and not being smooth enough.

 

Also the throttle needs to be applied smoothly.

I don't think that the Fabia III TSI engine has a DMF?

 

Thanks AG Falco

 

OK, maybe I'm being a bit dramatic. But my use of the clutch is perfectly refined, never a problem on my Ibiza or Citigo or any courtesy cars. No examiner has ever picked me up for bad sympathy or smoothness. I get clunks -- audible and felt -- when going from decelerating on engine braking, or having reversed, to forward acceleration; or when crossing uneven surfaces. All this screams 'bad mounts' to me.

 

Using the throttle smoothly to come off idle, when it's soft with a huge dead zone, is challenging.

 

I'll double check whether it's a DMF on the 110PS variant next time I'm on ERWIN.

 

Anyway I think I've derailed things enough for now!

Edited 30 March, 2018 by ettlz

[Octy0GG]

3 hours ago, ettlz said:

 

I am yet to convince the service technicians that the engine mounts really are defective (again), but all I get is no defect found/they all do that* --- yeah, likely story.

Could be that your car is still under warranty, dealer should be able to detect and repair any problems once car is out of warranty.

[BigKev2]

Well its been a week since I had the software update to remedy the Pull Away Assist revs (1.5TSI Octavia). I don't think anyone else has had it done yet - or they havnt posted. As I posted at the time the revs are now much improved with only a slight kick as the clutch is lifted. The car still however has an unusual response when pulling away

I have been driving 2 litre diesel cars for the last 20 years so maybe I have not adapted to a petrol. The 1.5TSI seems to pull from very low revs and will crawl in 2nd or even third without protest. The peculiarity is that on pull away its as though the fuel is cut off for an instant causing driver and passenger to move forward. Bottom gear seems low and I think the 'bogging down' seems to occur when at the 1st to 2nd change over point. Maybe I am being too lazy with the throttle. Its as though the car wants you to  hold onto first gear longer then give it more throttle when lifting the clutch in second.

Its not something that would send be back to the dealer but I would be interested if others recognise what I mean when they have their software updated. 

[DaveLees]

37 minutes ago, BigKev2 said:

Well its been a week since I had the software update to remedy the Pull Away Assist revs (1.5TSI Octavia). I don't think anyone else has had it done yet - or they havnt posted. As I posted at the time the revs are now much improved with only a slight kick as the clutch is lifted. The car still however has an unusual response when pulling away

I have been driving 2 litre diesel cars for the last 20 years so maybe I have not adapted to a petrol. The 1.5TSI seems to pull from very low revs and will crawl in 2nd or even third without protest. The peculiarity is that on pull away its as though the fuel is cut off for an instant causing driver and passenger to move forward. Bottom gear seems low and I think the 'bogging down' seems to occur when at the 1st to 2nd change over point. Maybe I am being too lazy with the throttle. Its as though the car wants you to  hold onto first gear longer then give it more throttle when lifting the clutch in second.

Its not something that would send be back to the dealer but I would be interested if others recognise what I mean when they have their software updated. 

Mine is getting done on Wednesday morning at Silbury so I'll post an update after that. I believe that SoupDragon is getting his done on Wednesday afternoon at Silbury.

Is anyone else getting their software updated for this issue? At the moment it only looks as if it's the three of us!

[MarcReed]

I'm getting mine done middle of the month (earliest they could do apparently!).  I've been driving VAG turbo petrols for the last 15 years and not had a clutch/throttle like this before.  The 'pull-away-assist/anti-stall/what-ever-you-want-to-call-it' feature has been present on all of them - that is, when you lift the clutch without using throttle it will apply just enough to keep the car from stalling which means you can maneuver at low speeds without the throttle - but this Octavia is just set up completely wrong.  If what you're saying (BigKev) is true, that the auto-throttle drops too soon, then maybe it's not fixed :(

[DaveLees]

Ahh..... what an improvement. Just got back from Silbury having had the update done, I didn't realise how annoying the increased revs had been.

The usual service from Silbury, they take you to and pick you up from wherever you want to go, car washed and hoovered-excellent.

[SoupDragon]

Me too, I got the software update from Silbury yesterday, They washed and tidied up my car as well. The difference is great, no more surprising rev rises. The unwelcome noise is gone. I have not driven the car much since the update but so far, it is a big improvement in the predictability of how the engine is going to behave. 

[Janner74]

Hi. 

 

I've been given a link to this forum post from the Karoq forum. I have the same problem on my new 1.5 manual Karoq. It takes me back to being a learner driver. It does worry me when pulling out sharpish at a roundabout. I look forward to seeing if anyone has any luck with Skoda. 

[DaveLees]

9 hours ago, Janner74 said:

Hi. 

 

I've been given a link to this forum post from the Karoq forum. I have the same problem on my new 1.5 manual Karoq. It takes me back to being a learner driver. It does worry me when pulling out sharpish at a roundabout. I look forward to seeing if anyone has any luck with Skoda. 

I would get on touch with your dealer straight away and point out that this is a known issue with the 1.5 tsi engine ( in the Octavia) and there is a software update for this issue. Unfortunately I can't give you the bulletin number at the moment as I'm away on holiday, but any decent dealer will be able to find it.

[Gabbo]

14 hours ago, Janner74 said:

Hi. 

I've been given a link to this forum post from the Karoq forum. I have the same problem on my new 1.5 manual Karoq. It takes me back to being a learner driver. It does worry me when pulling out sharpish at a roundabout. I look forward to seeing if anyone has any luck with Skoda. 

 

+1 for what DaveLees said.

A fix is already available for the Octavia after some good persistance from the OP and some others in the thread.

 

Your dealer should be able to advice if/when the same update will be available for the Karoq.

don't accept if they tell you "they all do it" or "its a characteristic".

If they tell you this ask them to contact SkodaUK directly for an official response.