Will 1.4 diesel be dropped ?

[SurreyJohn]

Skoda yesterday (8 Feb) announced the facelifted Fabia will be petrol only from this summer

 

Volkswagen group is apparently discontinuing the 1.4 TDI and from late 2018 is replacing the 1.6TDI by a 1.5 litre version

 

Therefore seems likely the 1.4 litre diesel will be withdrawn from new orders soon,  as there is likelihood production line will probably be closed before the summer break in July which will allow it to be retooled for the new engine.

The reasons (the efficiency of small diesels is not really better in real world than the new generation petrols) for dropping diesel in Fabia would also apply to smaller engined Rapids

 

There is also a question of how much longer the 1.4 petrol will continue to be made, as there is a gradual changeover to the 1.5 petrol within VW group

 

 

[Ootohere]

Just a matter of when.

Lots of engines will be dropped by lots of Manufacturers once they can only sell vehicles that have had Real world testing and 

the ones that had dodgy / Implausible / Irregular EU testing / Type Approval are found out.  The kidology is over, 

and instead the new testing is still not the Co2 g/km & MPG of cars with all seats occupied, luggage, roof box, optional extras and maybe a trailer / caravan on the tow ball. 

ie Revenue weight, that vehicles might well be used as when people drive them.

http://skoda.co.uk/pages/fuel-consumption-statement.aspx 

Edited 9 February, 2018 by AwaoffSki

[camelspyyder]

Not for efficiency reasons over petrol for sure.

New gen small petrols are all about official mpg figures, nothing else. In the real world no TSI is ever going to get remotely near a 1.4TDi on mpg.

The pathetic efficiency of small petrol turbos in everyday driving is an utter F******* joke.

 

Maybe they're binning the 1.4TDi and 1.6TDi because they both sound like concrete mixers full of rubble when you accelerate.

 

 

 

 

Edited 9 February, 2018 by camelspyyder

[Ootohere]

12 Months ago heid yin at VW was all,  'End of downsizing is nye'. 

 

1.6 Diesel would be as small as it went, no further development on small diesels because of the less efficient even though 3 cylinder because of heat soak.

Still sticking with 1.0 N/A and Turbo and going 1.5 TSI ACT etc,  Electric / Hybrid and such. 

 

.............

He forgot to mention they keep failing to source fit for purpose water pumps, and with the 1.4 TDI Euro 6 even blame the 'wrong coolant'. 

Vorsprung Durch Technik,  never accept responsibility.

http://autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/engine-downsizing-come-end-says-volkswagen-boss 

Edited 9 February, 2018 by AwaoffSki

[bigjohn]

3 hours ago, camelspyyder said:

Not for efficiency reasons over petrol for sure.

New gen small petrols are all about official mpg figures, nothing else. In the real world no TSI is ever going to get remotely near a 1.4TDi on mpg.

The pathetic efficiency of small petrol turbos in everyday driving is an utter F******* joke.

 

 

 

 

A while ago I would have agreed with you. However, yes the petrol uses more fuel but in my case the difference between my previous diesel and my new(er) petrol was much closer than I expected in real life. Basically my old 2003 diesel Superb I 1.9pd did about 50mpg and my 2014 petrol Superb II 1.4tsi does about 46mpg . That's way better than I was expecting. 

 

[camelspyyder]

I think there is a limit to practical downsizing of petrol turbos. Over the life of the Rapid Threads on here, the 1.4 TSI seemed more economic than the 1.2/105 or 110 in the real world - and in my experience the new 1.0 is even worse. I think they get down to a size where the practical torque available is insufficient and they need thrashing, relatively speaking, to perform.  Similarly the Ford ecoboost 1.0 is fairly notorious for missing its claimed mpg by a vast amount.

 

Also I'm reasonably convinced that diesel engine advances since the antique 1.9PD would widen the mpg gap to your Superb TSI.

Edited 9 February, 2018 by camelspyyder

[Smileyman]

I'd like to see the new 1.5 petrol engine in the Rapid/Toledo body but with a 6 speed manual gearbox - I would have purchased the 1.4 engine car but I didn'tt want an automatic gearbox, any make of car or version of automatic.

[bigjohn]

2 hours ago, camelspyyder said:

I think there is a limit to practical downsizing of petrol turbos. Over the life of the Rapid Threads on here, the 1.4 TSI seemed more economic than the 1.2/105 or 110 in the real world - and in my experience the new 1.0 is even worse. I think they get down to a size where the practical torque available is insufficient and they need thrashing, relatively speaking, to perform.  Similarly the Ford ecoboost 1.0 is fairly notorious for missing its claimed mpg by a vast amount.

 

Also I'm reasonably convinced that diesel engine advances since the antique 1.9PD would widen the mpg gap to your Superb TSI.

 

In my view the 1.2/105 EA111 was less economical as it was an 8 valve engine - the 1.4 EA111 is 16 valve. The later totally different EA211 1.2 16 valve engine is a far superior engine in many ways

 

Must admit I'm nervous of the 1.0 3 cylinder engine (possibly a step too far) - i'd probably stick to the 1.4 or 1.5 versions in the future.

 

Looking at real life fuel consumption figures (Spritmonitor, Fuelly, Honestjohn) the 2.0 CR diesel versions are a bit more economical (but not much more ) and the 1.6 CR diesels are very economical (I drove one in a Superb - no thanks!)

 

To be honest I didn't buy my petrol because of dieselgate (infact I bought it in June 2015 which was before the VAG Houston moment) - The main reason was the £5k price difference (at the time!) between the 2.0 CR 140 diesel S and the 1.4 tsi petrol S Superb. Depending on estimated fuel economies it was going to take 10-20 years to break even on fuel versus purchase costs.  My sums estimated 42mpg for the petrol - in reality I've been getting much better than that.

 

At the end of the day I've still got the £5k capital saving in the bank even though obviously I'm paying a bit more at the pumps.

 

 

Edited 9 February, 2018 by bigjohn

[RickTT]

As much as people didnt like the 1.4TDi, it was a cracking little engine in our Spaceback.

 

However.. the emmsions on it were less in 2016 than 2018 even though nothing had changed and the engine was not part of the recall - figure that out unless VAG where quoting the wrong figures to all !!

 

the 1.4 TDI could return 70mpg no problem if driven soft on a cruise.

[Ootohere]

^^^ 

Was your car part of the Service Campaign requiring the change of Coolant?

[RickTT]

On 10/02/2018 at 23:05, AwaoffSki said:

^^^ 

Was your car part of the Service Campaign requiring the change of Coolant?

 

I think it may of been.. I recall it had a few service bultins done in December.. 

[SurreyJohn]

After yesterdays German Court ruling, regarding banning diesels from polluted cities, it has been reported that German car makers are now considering dropping diesels below 2 litres by 2020

Wont happen instantly, but it is considered that trying to meet the tougher emissions rules for a diminishing market share wont be justified.

 

Already looks like the 1.4 tdi is being killed this summer, so will be just 1.6tdi (changing to 1.5 in 2019) as only diesel in Rapid, and even that may go in 2 or 3 years in Europe

[threadbear]

I had a Polo SE TDi 1.4 and compared to the 1.6 I found it noisy and lumpy and only seemed happy at about 70mph in 5th. I am getting better fuel consumption from my Octavia 1.6TDi than I ever did from my Polo. 

[SurreyJohn]

Apparently SEAT have confirmed that MY18 orders close start of July (Tuesday 3rd) and the MY19 Toledo will be 1.0tsi 110 (manual and DSG), no other engines

 

Presumably as they are made by Skoda (and effectively rebadged Rapid) the same will also apply to Skoda.  So looks like it might be joining  Fabia without diesel option.

 

 

[camelspyyder]

I had read that Rapid/Toledo production was stopping? Got a link to the SEAT story?

[Ootohere]

Production has to stop as they are not going to be put through the WLTP so could not be first Registered from September.

[SurreyJohn]

8 hours ago, camelspyyder said:

I had read that Rapid/Toledo production was stopping? Got a link to the SEAT story?

 

It is on a MY19 update that SEAT dealer has, so cant link anything

 

There is apparently a completely new Rapid next year, using MQB A0 platform, so I suspect changes are limited this year, more a range rationalisation that precedes run out

[abaxas]

Random musing.....

My 1.4 tdi fabia is definitely more economical than my wife's (killer of babies) 1.6 tdi golf, both pre and post fix.

I guess it's the extra mass that really makes the difference.

 

[SurreyJohn]

New Rapid Spaceback brochure September 2018 is now out

 

Only engine is 1.0tsi (same as revised Fabia)

 

As predicted, no diesel

 

http://www.skoda.co.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/downloads/brochures/rapidspaceback_pricing_specs.pdf

 

 

 

[Ootohere]

^^^ The Facelift Fabia buyer did get more of a choice, they could get a 1.0 3 cylinder engine without a turbo if they want one.

[camelspyyder]

Toledo no longer available to order either. Just selling leftover stock. I expect the Rapid is the same.

[RickTT]

The  Rapid in India gets the 1.5 TDI 81kw still...

Edited 6 September, 2018 by RickTT

[camelspyyder]

2 hours ago, RickTT said:

The  Rapid in India gets the 1.5 TDI 81kw still...

 

Different car isn't it? Only the name is common to the 2. Emissions rules in India are possibly more lax than Euro 6 as well 

 

[RickTT]

10 hours ago, camelspyyder said:

 

Different car isn't it? Only the name is common to the 2. Emissions rules in India are possibly more lax than Euro 6 as well 

 

 

 

A friend has just got an edition x and looking at the photos it looks the same car apart from having slightly taller headlight units and front bumper ... The underpinnings could be the same...

 

In regards to emmsions... Anything goes there...