2014 4x4 Brake Upgrade

[TasMan]

As reported before, and similar to other 4x4 user reports, the brakes are mediocre on my 4x4 Estate .

A recent low speed 'poor stopping event' has brought an upgrade to my next priority, getting fed up with the poor stopping power.....

Its going to be new discs and pads all round, and maybe a set of braided hoses.....no point in not going the whole hog...considering Black Diamond 6 groove disks and fast road pads.

I have 312 and 282 mm disks but didn't appreciate the rear callipers could be either Lucas or Bosch.  Would anyone be able to advise how easy it is to tell, or is it a wheel off job to check ?  Couldn't see any obvious markings....perhaps the dealer can confirm.  Car has done 33500miles, the discs all round are in average condition but with a fair bit of wear left.

NSF appears to have a band of uneven wear and isn't looking clever with pad contact not the full extent of the disc, probably an MOT fail....not sure what would cause this...  Brakes haven't been good from day one, and I expect this won't be helping...  Car is in at the dealer next week for a service so will get the brakes checked/cleaned meantime ahead of ordering the parts required.

 

 

Edited 20 February, 2018 by TasMan

[Gdcobra]

That last photo looks like a floating caliper which isn't floating or something wrong with pad.

[DEL80Y]

I have had the pads out twice front and rear  cleaned carriers and slides before eventually upgrading to Black Diamond Predator Pads all round.
 

My pads were changed about 70,000 and the discs were still well within wear tolerance so only fitted the pads in hindsight I should of went the whole hog then...

Now at 100,000 my discs are going the exact same way as the above picture so they are getting replaced with Black Diamond discs all round this time

I am thinking that the discs are too hard a compound cause my C Class eats O.E. discs both front and back

[TasMan]

12 hours ago, DEL80Y said:

I have had the pads out twice front and rear  cleaned carriers and slides before eventually upgrading to Black Diamond Predator Pads all round.
 

Now at 100,000 my discs are going the exact same way as the above picture so they are getting replaced with Black Diamond discs all round this time

I am thinking that the discs are too hard a compound cause my C Class eats O.E. discs both front and back

@DEL80Y  Many thanks...  sounds like you have been through what I am experiencing and also got fed up with the brakes!  I have made a point of looking at the discs on the odd parked car and most I see are in far better condition with full sweep coverage of the pads evident, and the discs gleaming clean... unlike mine....!  Would you happen to know if your rear callipers were Lucas or Bosch, still need to check mine but would be interesting to know.  Where are you buying your new discs from ?  Can't find any BD agents up here, so looking like an online order, probably be the best option anyway.....   I would give the disc change a go myself but having never done them I'm wary of getting it wrong...sounds like regular cleaning of the assembly is key.... Cheers Dave

[TLV]

256mm - 1KF - Lucas
272mm - 1KS - Bosch
282mm - 1KJ - Lucas

[DEL80Y]

4 hours ago, TasMan said:

@DEL80Y   Where are you buying your new discs from ?  

https://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/performance/brake-discs/car/skoda/superb-08-15/2012/2-0td
I am sure I got them from Ebay Demon Tweeks store and a great discount but cant find them available from Ebay 

I will look up my invoice and check the part number I was supplied but as above your Data card will tell what brakes are fitted   (Found in the spare wheel well)
Here is the Demon Tweeks Site

Lucas Pads should be PP636 for 282mm rears
 

Edited 21 February, 2018 by DEL80Y

[TasMan]

@TLV @DEL80Y  Thanks, this is very helpful.   Have been in touch with BD and this info is the same, but they queried the calliper manufacturer even with the code.

My data sticker shows 1KJ for the rears.....the code for the fronts isn't noted which is 1LJ or 1ZA apparently...  I have measured them so they definitely are 312.

When I try a PR decoder it doesn't state size, just 'rear disc brakes'.

Am at the dealer on Tuesday coming so will ask them if they can confirm everything before I place an order. 

My data sticker is below...Will check out Demon Tweeks for sure....

 

 

[chimaera]

You won't find the PR code for the front brakes on the build label, annoyingly enough. It is available if you download the full PR code list for your car from erWin. This is a problem when you're trying to buy parts that are referenced to a PR code.

 

Also annoyingly, having had a look through Black Diamond's website, they don't list all possible PR codes for the Superb. My car is 1ZA front and 1KJ rear, neither of which are listed on Black Diamond's site.

 

Looking up http://www.oemepc.com/skoda/parts_lst/markt/CZ/modell/SUP/year/2012/hg/6/catalog/sk/drive_standart/632/lang/e shows that 1ZA front is a Teves caliper on a 312 x 25 mm disk, and 1KJ rear is a Lucas caliper on a 286 x 12 mm disk.

[scottalej2]

I have a similar car and found the poor brake issue to be due to sticky sliders and corroded / dirty calliper to brake pad contact.

I changed out all my discs and pads recently and discovered this issue which had resulted in the inside pads wearing much quicker than the outer.

I cleaned up all contact areas making sure the pads could slide easily on the calipers. I also cleaned up the sliders and coated with red rubber grease.

The brakes are now very sharp and bite near the top of the pedal travel.

I intend to clean up the calipers every couple of years to ensure that they don't stick again.

 

[Ootohere]

Every 12 months or sooner might be a better idea. Pre winter and post winter even.

[TasMan]

@scottalej2@AwaoffSki   Thanks for the suggestions, sound advice and I expect it makes a big difference to keeping the brakes in good order.  Am hoping to get a mechanic pal to give me a tutorial on brake strip down and rebuild as I haven't worked on brakes before, doesn't look difficult, just want to make sure am doing things correctly...  

[TasMan]

Just to update that the dealer confirmed the rear calipers are Lucas.

Cheers

[26DIPP]

I have a DSG 4x4 but have not really felt the brakes underpowered. Maybe I have less corrosion...

 

Have you used VCP or VCDS to increase the brake assist. There are 3 settings I think. I changed mine to the middle setting. The highest assist was brutally digital. I have also activated the rain wipe where the ABS module applies the brake a fraction in rainy weather every now and then.

[TasMan]

On 3/10/2018 at 17:06, 26DIPP said:

Have you used VCP or VCDS to increase the brake assist. There are 3 settings I think. I changed mine to the middle setting. The highest assist was brutally digital. I have also activated the rain wipe where the ABS module applies the brake a fraction in rainy weather every now and then.

 

Thanks for that. Don't have access to VCDS, I do have Carista, not sure if you can do it through that ?  Not heard of rain wipe either, assume only available through VCDS ? 

[langers2k]

Pretty sure both the brake assist level and brake disc wiper are just adaption channels, assuming Carista allows access to change adaption channels both should be possible.

[26DIPP]

Brake disc wipe is in the adaptation channels in ABS 03. I do not know Carista.

[TasMan]

Sorry for dragging this one back up.  I now have all the parts ready for upgrading the discs and pads.

I am going to get a local independent garage to do the work for me as I have yet to find someone to give me a run through on doing brakes myself and time is also against me at the moment.

 

My car has Hill Hold Control.....is there any special procedure required when changing the rears when the car has HHC, or does this not really affect matters ?

I am aware of the need for a calliper rewind tool but not sure on any aspect with the HHC ?

 

Thanks in advance....I will update in detail when the brakes have been changed.

 

 

 

[TLV]

1 hour ago, TasMan said:

My car has Hill Hold Control.....is there any special procedure required when changing the rears when the car has HHC, or does this not really affect matters ?

 

I am aware of the need for a calliper rewind tool but not sure on any aspect with the HHC ?

 

Thanks in advance....I will update in detail when the brakes have been changed.

 

 

 

 

No. Pretty much the only time when you need to do anything different is when the handbrake is electronically operated.

 

There is the ABS pump bleeding procedure, however. But that should be the same if HHC is enabled/disabled or even if said ABS pump has the feature. If you want all of the fluid changed in the system, then yes, you should ask the garage to do said procedure.

Edited 10 July, 2018 by TLV

[TasMan]

Thanks TLV, very useful. I don't anticipate full brake fluid change, that was done last year and due next year.  It will be a top up if anything but will mention as I believe that needs VCDS to enable, but I understand this is really only if doing a full change or the ABS module has been changed.  Hopefully just local top up and bleeding at each corner.  I assume on calliper rewind they should be removing the cap off the fluid reservoir ?  (you can tell I am an amateur at brakes!).

Cheers

 

[TLV]

The ABS pump bleeding procedure should probably done about once every five years when doing brakes. Otherwise some of the old fluid remains in the pump. Many would say it's not necessary, though. If you're having all of the fluid replaced, might as well get the pump bleeding done too for peace of mind.

 

When bleeding brakes, you want to keep the cap off so you can always pour more brake fluid in when necessary. If the reservoir goes empty, you'll probably get some air into the lines. The cap is pretty much there to keep the fluid from spilling out while driving over bumps.

[TasMan]

Finally getting to update this thread.  Car has now been treated to a bit of an upgrade.....

Black Diamond 12 Groove discs all round with matching Predator pads and a set of braided hoses, I wasn't messing around......

After running mediocre brakes since getting the car, and the MOT looming knowing the discs were in poor condition it was time to sort things out.

I have now driven about 300 miles bedding the brakes in and the performance is night and day.....

The first 50 - 100 miles weren't great but the performance then got progressively better every day.  Stopping power is immense now with no sign of fade.  Initial bite is excellent, not over the top for a family car if you brake normally but when required you know all about it....  There is no squeal or drumming noise when braking which was a slight concern with grooved brakes.

My driving style doesn't normally need the full braking potential but knowing its there when required is brilliant.  The braking power would easily give folk close behind something to think about.  My insurer has been informed and I now have 'brake changes' noted on my policy with no additional premium which was excellent.

Overall, highly recommended for anyone thinking of an upgrade.  When I get a chance I will list out the Black Diamond part codes for anyone interested.

Cheers Dave

 

Discs with only 30 - 40 miles use, sweep area still being cleaned off, now fully clean with no bedding marks.

Braided hoses all round...

Crusty state of old discs, photos make them look better than they were, bad scoring and poor surface contact noticeable.

Edited 2 August, 2018 by TasMan

[Shaunieboy]

2 hours ago, TasMan said:

Overall, highly recommended for anyone thinking of an upgrade.  When I get a chance I will list out the Black Diamond part codes for anyone interested.

Cheers Dave

 

Discs with only 30 - 40 miles use, sweep area still being cleaned off, now fully clean with no bedding marks.

Braided hoses all round...

Crusty state of old discs, photos make them look better than they were, bad scoring and poor surface contact noticeable.

I would be very interested in all part numbers when you get chance. Brakes are definitely something I'm interested in upgrading on mine.

[brad1.8T]

Replacement of pads and rotors isn't a brake change.  It's just maintenance.  I wouldn't even consider the braided lines a "brake change"

[TasMan]

7 hours ago, Shaunieboy said:

I would be very interested in all part numbers when you get chance. Brakes are definitely something I'm interested in upgrading on mine.

 

No problem will get the details asap - I measured my discs before purchase and had to check the caliper manufacturer as pads differ.  Wouldn't want you buying the same parts and finding they don't fit    Check out the start of the thread for more details.

 

5 hours ago, brad1.8T said:

Replacement of pads and rotors isn't a brake change.  It's just maintenance.  I wouldn't even consider the braided lines a "brake change"

 

I take your point, however most insurers will do anything not to pay out.  Fitting non-OEM parts is deemed a change to the car that came out the factory, I think most insurers would take that view, especially when fitting grooved/drilled discs.  In their eyes they think you are driving faster by fitting better brakes and their risk goes up....they don't take account folk who want to have a safer car...

'Brake changes' is their official line on my policy, not my wording, and at no additional cost I'm more than happy to have it declared.  Last thing you want is to pay out your premium and they refuse to insure you as a result of something 'not declared'...

Without digressing I went through all changes on my car - Towbar - not a problem but is noted on my policy, LED Interior Lights - Yes sir, that would be deemed 'interior changes'.....!!  Window stickers - Yes sir, but provided they are removable they will be covered under 'interior changes'......!!  Jeez.....!

Again, no cost to have 'interior changes' listed......Ridiculous I know but that's what you are up against.....

Edited 3 August, 2018 by TasMan

[Ootohere]

Great you are doing the upgrade and now might do preventative servicing and maintenance because clearly the brakes were ignored in the past and it is no wonder the braking performance was crap.