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2017 Skoda Fabia Mk3 1.2TSI DSG vs 2018 Citroen C3 1.2 EAT6 auto


GeneralPurpose

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If I was changing I would choose that exact model. Citroen have always be innovative although in earlier years build quality has been an issue but thankfully now rectified. One model, could be yours, has Citroen pneumatic suspension, a must for our roads. I like the built-in dashcam.

Edited by edbostan
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Shocked to read this to be honest.

 

Had a New C3 for a week or so at the start of the year. and apart from the obvious spaciousness, really didn't like it at all.

 

reported on it here: 

 

Edited by camelspyyder
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:thumbup: Thanks for an interesting and fairly balanced review.

 

I've been a VAG man since I cant remember when. And skoda from 2004 with several cars most of which are still in my care (free servicing, maintenance and repair from Dad). Even though I recently bought a new Superb to add to the fleet, I'm conscious I really need to broaden my horizons.

 

I've not been too impressed with the new Fabia or Octavia when Ive had them for a day or on hire. The cabins definitely feel smaller and cheaper than the mk2 with all hard plastics.

 

I've often noticed strolling though car parks, Citroen brakes looking pretty good whereas as Skoda brakes always seem to be in a state of advanced corrosion and wheels covered in black dust. Something I hate having to clean up and service regularly.

 

But my main moan is the way the new VAG engines are much less DIY service friendly. Oil and filter changes on mk2 fabias and octavias are a piece of cake. Mk3, I struggled to find where the oil filter was at first, putting it at the bottom of the engine, ugh....

 

So question about your petrol C3. Do you think standard oil/filter changes would be an easy DIY job? Obviously I would need to research service indicator resets.

 

A lot of bad press about certain PSA engines, diesels of doom. Is the petrol engine a PSA engine and is it 3 or 4 cylinder?  Heard anything bad about them?

 

Do keep us updated about the Citroen experience. Help us poor folk stuck in the Skoda mindset to perhaps think further afield.

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Thanks xman. Yes the oil and other filter changes are easy. It's a diy'ers dream. The whole car seems very easy to work on and everything easy to get at. There are no known problems with the PureTech 1.2 motors. It's a PSA engine with a turbo charged 3 cylinder long stroke engine revving very low but it's hugely powerful compared to the 1.2TSI engine in the Fabia. At any given revs it has much more torque available so gets up and goes really quickly but effortlessly. The 40mph to 80mph dash is much much quicker than the Fabia 110ps 1.2TSI. The cam belt has a 12 year or 128,000 mile life span. But I'll change it before then. It's very stable on the roads in high winds at speed too. And it's sooo smooth. Edbostan, the C4 has the special pneumatic suspension, but the C3 has a highly tuned conventional setup. On that point about the brakes xman...yes the finish on the hubs, the discs and calipers is very good and so far no rust on the discs after overnight rain or a wet drive. They may have a higher degree of stainless steel in them than the Fabias. I expect they will develop overnight rust in the winter though with the inevitable salt on the roads.

 

I still think Skoda are great cars but just not the ones I had...:)  And I have noticed a change in the way Skoda are building them now. Basically, economies forced on them by VW has affected many things and it's showing. 

 

How's the Superb xman? Nice cars from what i know. 

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1 hour ago, camelspyyder said:

Shocked to read this to be honest.

 

Had a New C3 for a week or so at the start of the year. and apart from the obvious spaciousness, really didn't like it at all.

 

reported on it here: 

 

 

Thanks for the comments. I think I read your piece on your hire car. Did you do a YouTube video on it too? Shame your experience wasn't good with it. But we can't all like everything. The bottom of the range car is a bit lacking and doesn't look so nice inside. You definitely don't want the 68bhp engine either. It's a heavier car than the Fabia so not surprised it struggled a bit on motorways. 

Edited by Estate Man
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Oh I know the 68 would be horrendous. As it turned out it was the 82 we had but show it a hill and it gave up. I thought our own 85 bhp Ibiza was a slug, but the Citroen was tugging a lot more weight about and really struggled. I would definitely want a more powerful model if driving it again. I like the exterior styling and the space. It will probably be an absolute bargain used buy in 2 years since the valuelike our SEATs, is unlikely to hold up. 

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Oh, that's interesting that it was the 82ps version you had. They normally go reasonably well. They don't of course as you prolly know have a turbo. The 82 is more of a town car. You know, it's so difficult getting a decent discount off the C3 that used prices are so far standing up really well. A one year old used C3 with 14,000+ miles on the clock at my local Citroen dealer was going for £16,750 with the auto tranny. Yet paying cash for my new one I got a total saving of £4700 off a new car costing £18,200. Thats the only way to get any decent discount. Many folks don't buy with cash though. That discount that I obtained included an extra £1000 given to me over and above the value of my Fabia. But the used C3 would have cost £17,850 a year earlier, not lost much value in 12 months. That's helped by the fact that they can sell every C3 they make very quickly. It will not overall I suspect hold it value quite as well as the Fabia. The C3 has only been out over here for two years son we'll have to wait and see.

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Here's some under bonnet shots of the C3 1.2 Turbo 110ps 3 cyl engine. Note the Turbocharger is totally the opposite way round (at the front rather than the rear of the engine) to the 1.2TSI engine unit. Everything is easy to get to and everything is neat and nicely finished off under there. The car has a very solid feel to everything and is very well constructed. 

 

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On 04/10/2018 at 07:59, Estate Man said:

Oh, that's interesting that it was the 82ps version you had. They normally go reasonably well. They don't of course as you prolly know have a turbo. The 82 is more of a town car. You know, it's so difficult getting a decent discount off the C3 that used prices are so far standing up really well. A one year old used C3 with 14,000+ miles on the clock at my local Citroen dealer was going for £16,750 with the auto tranny. Yet paying cash for my new one I got a total saving of £4700 off a new car costing £18,200. Thats the only way to get any decent discount. Many folks don't buy with cash though. That discount that I obtained included an extra £1000 given to me over and above the value of my Fabia. But the used C3 would have cost £17,850 a year earlier, not lost much value in 12 months. That's helped by the fact that they can sell every C3 they make very quickly. It will not overall I suspect hold it value quite as well as the Fabia. The C3 has only been out over here for two years son we'll have to wait and see.

 

The Dealer with the used one was indeed having a laugh.

2017 Flair 82 with under 4000 miles is currently on autotrader at £8600 ono.

2017 Flair 110 start at £10100

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camel, just to be clear, my C3 is the 110ps Flair automatic and I was talking in my post above about a used highly specced 2017 C3 Flair with the 110ps EAT6 auto gearbox which is a totally different cup of tea to a manual gearbox 82ps Flair. Not the same class of car at all. You cannot get all the bells and whistles on lower powered Flairs either. On autotrader, 2017 110ps auto cars sell for various prices depending on miles and you can see them being advertised at £15k plus with 8-10k or more on the clock. That recently included the very car my dealer had up for sale at £16,750, along with several others at similar prices. Of course you can buy 2016's at lower prices or very high milers cheaper too.  But it's only the lower powered models selling at the prices you mention. Currently there are some new euro 6.1 pre reg cars going cheaper at £15.5k. My dealers car which had 14k on the clock had every extra ever made including the pana roof which made it pretty valuable. I did drive that car and it was lovely to drive, just like mine with loads of power and very smooth. Beat my Fabia DSG in pretty much every way. Incidentally, the book on my Fabia SE 1.2 TSI 110ps DSG was worth £8750 trade against my £18,200 Fair. Disappointingly low, so after doing a deal I got substantially more. My Skoda with 8k on the clock sold for £11,750. Very poor I thought for a car that was just a year old.  

Edited by Estate Man
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Sorry mate. 

I just don't believe a main dealers sticker price is a true reflection  of a used car's market value. Especially the cheaper brands like Seat, Skoda, Renault, and yes Citroen.  If your Skoda dropped that much in the first year it's unlikely another non-premium brand will do much better.

My attitude to salesmen's lies has hardened lately after dealing with foreign estate agents for the last 5 weeks mind you.

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Asking Prices have only ever been that, 

someone in business either gets what they are asking or they do not, and often many do as it only takes someone willing to pay that and they are quids in.

 

Dealerships are not going to just ask just enough for a profit and pay taxes on the profit if they can get more, 

and they do not want buyers of new cars think they are depreciation disasters by the used ones sitting for sale dirt cheap.

 

The car trade has never changed and neither has buying and selling other than something on Amazon / Ebay can arrive from China for 86 pence with Free Delivery when they are 

£1.99 in the UK plus £1 postage.

Edited by Offski
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Having spent 33 years in the motor trade, I can tell you the sticker price is nearly always (95% of the time) the confirmed asking price from the little book that everyone goes by, and subject to the condition of the car. I checked at the time and the dealer price was spot on for the car that it was. A dealer won't 'over charge' on the sticker price unless he wants the car to stay on the forecourt so he can look at it and lose money. The car in question sold after being on the forecourt for just 3 days, at the sticker price. I did consider buying it myself ever so briefly until I realised I could buy a new one for cash and save thousands. So it's not required that you believe it.  Citroen don't give much away on new car discounts unless you pay cash. They rarely run big factory discount campaigns like VAG. And in case you haven't noticed, newer Citroen cars are holding their value considerably better than Citroens of old. Lots of reasons for that including the fact they build them better these days. But thanks for the comments...

Edited by Estate Man
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6 hours ago, Wet Kipper said:

Nice Review

 

edited and removed the rest of my post as i did not read your review properly :blush:

 

 

Thanks for the comments Wet Kipper. Of course, I'm bound to be a bit biased after the experience I've had with two new 1.2TSI DSG cars that proved to be less than perfect (that's an understatement of course so as not to hurt anyone's feelings on here).:giggle:

 

I did another 690 miles at the weekend in the C3. She managed an overall 62.3mpg for the trip. Not bad for a 'young' engine with less than 1800 miles on the clock. I had no other passengers and was only carrying a very light load. Kept to mostly 65-70mph and 3/4's of the trip was on dual carriageways and motorways, the rest on 'A' and 'B' roads. Almost no town work. 

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Estate Man you must not look at Arnold Clark dealership Asking Prices often on used cars or on New Car offers.

All about the finance, the monthly and keep the money going around, new cars out, back and sold used and new cars out,

just as it always has been. Pile them high, have thousands in stock and keep the money going around.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-45618613

http://arnoldclark.com/citroen

http://arnoldclark.com

 

 

Edited by Offski
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  • 8 months later...

Ok, so little update.

 

Had the new C3 Flair for 10 months now and put a huge mileage on the clock. Not had a single issue with it. Slight rattle from offside rear passenger door though,  Sounds like a cable in the door has come adrift and occasionally rattles against the inner door metal somewhere. I'll do that sometime but it's not a prevalent noise, and doesn't bother anyone.

 

Although I'm retired, I've been covering up to 4000 miles per month in it. It's been absolutely great, very comfortable and a very quiet car. It gives totally effortless cruising all day at any speed you dial in. Totally reliable.

 

I've been very dependant on the car, as most of us are, and I've found the technology in the car really useful. Especially the infotainment system, speed limit recognition system, hi-tech heating and ventilating system, the cruise control, the built in dashcam etc etc. It's funny, but I've never really wanted too much tech in a car but now I've got it, it's really good and so useful.

 

The paintwork on the car is really good and has stayed good. The engine bay remains clean in-spite of the car being used in some terrible weather. The suspension, axles, and underbody including the exhaust show no signs of any rusting. Now that is something I could not say about my new Mk3 Fabia's. Both had rust to the suspension arms and axle at the rear and was getting substantially worse as time was going by. The exhausts were very rusty on the surface too.

 

The C3 engine uses no measurable amount of oil. I've never topped it up ever and it remains at the full mark. That's quite surprising as both my Fabia's needed topping up, just small amounts (125 & 200 ml in the first 3000 miles). This is even more surprising as my C3 spends a lot of it's time on the motorways and dual carriageways at 70 mph, and occassionally I'm not averse to using the power, of which there is much! It does it's fair share of town work too but as a percentage of total miles it's not much.

 

The EAT6 automatic gearbox. This has been a real joy to use whether cruising or in heavy London traffic. It's about as good as a torque converter box gets in many ways. Very smooth. It can be slightly slow to drop out of 2nd gear into 1st gear sometimes if slowing down fast from speed say coming up to a roundabout and letting speed drop to 3-4mph. It will often stay in 2nd gear, but this is of no detriment. The engine is so powerful it just takes of like a scalded cat whether in 1st gear or second.

 

Would I buy it again, absolutely!  I like the car. I like the service from the dealer, his prices, his service techs...and the fact the car has had no issues. I'm going to keep it for a few years so I'm not interested in it's resale value, but values on the used car market for my model are holding up well. Oh, and the engine just last year again won the International Engine of the Year Award. Not bad for an engine that's been in production for 5-6 years or more.

 

 

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Pleased to hear you're enjoying your new car @GeneralPurpose; your updates are appreciated. 

 

There are posts in the Yeti section from owners who are considering Berlingo/Rifter/Combo MPVs to replace their Yetis - especially if the expected petrol auto models become available.   But there are also posts from owners (myself included) who have been burnt by quality & reliability issues of Citroens of the past.  I have never forgiven Citroen for the pile of poo it sold me twenty years ago in the shape of a Berlingo Multispace.  It was easily the worst car I have owned in fifty years of motoring!

 

But this morning, I parked next to a Rifter (shame about the name) and I liked what I saw.  Not as "loud" as the Berlingo, nor as basic as the Combo - but a definite contender when the time comes to replace my Yeti.  Perhaps by then, your welcome posts will have convinced me that PSA group cars have become worthy of consideration.  Cheers :thumbup:

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Hello Robjon, thanks for the comments.

 

Yes, I understand your anxiety regarding buying another Citroen. There's nothing like being burned by a brand to put you off buying another. That's how it is with me and Skoda at the moment which very much disappointed me. And frankly, previously I'd never given Citroen a serious look even though my sister has had them for years without issues. But it was the build quality that mostly put me off them. As I mention in my first post, it wasn't until I felt compelled to look away from the VAG group that I gave Citroen some serious consideration. It was a pleasant surprise to see how far forward they have come and to see how the design and build quality has improved.

 

On the point about the Berlingo/Rifter etc. I recently drove the Berlingo as a loaner. Got to say it was amazing. In spite of it being the diesel you could barely tell it wasn't a petrol even when the engine was cold. Couldn't believe it. It was a lovely car.

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  • 1 month later...

Thanks @GeneralPurposeand I hope you're still enjoying your car.

 

I'm still considering the Berlingo as an eventual replacement for my Yeti but my pattern of use would kill a diesel.  I need the petrol auto that exists in Citroen's brochure but not in the configurator!

 

Yesterday, I looked at Citroen's configurator again and noticed the petrol manual is no longer available.  So I'm guessing the petrol auto will probably never materialise.  Seems I will be holding on to my Yeti for a few years yet.

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