Problem with Rear Calipers

[GeorgeB]

My 2016 190ps DSG SEL Exec 4X4 (31671 miles recorded) went in for A brake fluid change (due every 3 years} & its 1st MOT today (MOT due 2nd Feb) & I got an advisory on the rear pads (worn to 3mm) & the discs worn,rusty & pitted. I've never had the rear pads wear out before the fronts?

 

I declined the offer to let the dealer (Skoda) change the pads & discs, whilst I was still in the showroom I telephoned Skoda customer service & relayed the info with the rear pads & discs & was told that they're wear & tear items & replacement was at my cost, thats when I droped the bomb shell....I was in the motor trade until I retired 2 years ago & spent 30+ years with VW group vehicles & was a SAGA2 (VW group warranty system) acredited & that in all my years in aftersales I'd never, but never came across rear pads wearing out before the fronts (still on the original front pads, measured at 8mm, & discs), unless the car had been driven with the handbrake still engaged, not possible with my car as it has an Electronic hand brake & automatically disengages as the car moves off!  & I'd never experienced any "holding back" as if the handbrake was still on. Conversation ended with a promise to call me back once they'd spoken to the dealer

 

Customer services called the dealer, & then phoned me back, & I quote " After due consideration Skoda would cover the cost of replacing the rear pads & discs as a gesture of goodwill" thank you I said, & walked over to the recepion desk & told them what I'd just been told by Skoda, The service receptionist said that Skoda had already authorised the repair, so I said go ahead.

 

About an hour later the receptionost came over to me and said that they'd come across a problem, both rear calipers were faulty & required replacing, & that they would be done under warranty, but they'd have to order then for overnight delivery.

 

So my question is...has anyone else come across this problem with rear cailpers?

[xman]

Commonly reported problem. It even has its own thread(s)!

 

[nicknorman]

I just changed my rear discs and pads at 32000 miles and just under 3 years. Quoted £280 by Skoda dealer but I did it myself for £120 (Delphi discs and pads). I now wish I’d argued for it to be done under warrantee! No apparent issues with the callipers though.

 

Front discs and pads are fine! Skoda rear discs are made of cheese!

Edited 8 January, 2019 by nicknorman

[MartiniB]

warranty rejected :(

high wear can be connected on stupid software algorithms -

when car were slowly stopped then rear brakes are released 1-2 second later than brake pedal was  depressed

after active braking that "useful" phenomenon not present

[newbie69]

Faulty calipers would actually make perfect sense with the scorched discs reports in that other older thread that is quoted above. Problem is as discs are officially wear n tear items, it's easy for a lazy dealer to dismiss any further investigation until you start applying pressure or pointing out that it's just not normal for rears to wear out faster than fronts. Definitely something to keep in mind and mention for anyone with the same issue.

[Deerjohn]

On 08/01/2019 at 23:08, xman said:

Commonly reported problem. It even has its own thread(s)!

 

 

It's normal because it is Skoda... I have also already changed rear brake discs as well as rear pads at 45thous. km. And this is not a case for warranty as dealer is saying.

[FrankLK]

This is the the cost of e-parking brake, not only skodas problem. 

[newbie69]

1 hour ago, FrankLK said:

This is the the cost of e-parking brake, not only skodas problem. 

Of-course, but some people will blame Skoda even for the bad weather, don't you know it?

[GeorgeB]

6 hours ago, FrankLK said:

This is the the cost of e-parking brake, not only skodas problem. 

 

Sorry FrankLk, but it isnt due to the e parking brake system! my last 6 cars have had e parking brakes & not one of them had this problem!

 

The garage found the route cause of my particullar car's excessive wear to the rear pads & pitting of the discs, it was because both rear calipers were partially seized & the pads not sitting correctly in the callipers, all no rectified under Skoda Warranty & goodwill!

[FrankLK]

But of course brakes are not under warranty so you get nothing, too bad. 

I just wanted to say that more and more rear brakes are failing due to electric brake in other brands also, but handbrake will be gone in few years. 

[GeorgeB]

32 minutes ago, FrankLK said:

But of course brakes are not under warranty so you get nothing, too bad. 

I just wanted to say that more and more rear brakes are failing due to electric brake in other brands also, but handbrake will be gone in few years. 

 

Yes you're right FrankLk, Wear & tear items (inc Brake pads & brake discs) are not covered under warranty after 6 month & 6500 miles (10461km), after that time they are deemed to be wear & tear items & replacement is at the customers expence, But in my case I got onto Skoda UK's customer service dept & explained the problem (originaly just the worn pads & scored rusty discs) they agreed to replace the under goodwill, it was only when the technician was striping down the rear brakes did they notice that the pads were not seated correctly in the callipers & both rear callipers were partially siezed as well. so the callipers were replaced under warranty & pads & discs under goodwill.

 

Ever since electronic handbrakes were introduced  around 1998 ish, as an aftersales manager, with VAG & Mercedes Benz vehicles (retired 3 years ago), up untill this episopde I've never come across this excessive wear on the rear pads & discs on any of the company or my privately owned cars fitted with electronic handbrakes (annual mileage company cars around 40,000, my own cars around 8,000 miles up untill I retired, now 12,000 a year on average.

 

I'm well aware that "external conditions" such as, high humidity, vehicles not used daily, snow, & in the UK we treat our roads in witer with salt! & salt laden air (living near the coast) contribute to rusting of the brake discs (plus any exposed steel on a car), so as I live 400 metres from the beach, my car goes through a rigorous deep clean of the underbody, wheels, & body on a regular basis, as dose my wifes car, this is 6 years old, not garaged & not a sign of rust anywhere except fot the outer radious of all 4 brake discs

[xman]

I suspect the vast majority of Superb premature pad/disc wear are due to poor quality or faulty calipers and/or carriers stopping free sliding and release.

This has been a problem on my previous VAG cars too, Octavia and Alhambra which were conventional handbrakes. Once I had serviced them properly by stripping them down, properly cleaning and dressing with a hand file, lubricated correctly in the right places with Ceratec grease, the problems went away.

[newbie69]

37 minutes ago, xman said:

I suspect the vast majority of Superb premature pad/disc wear are due to poor quality or faulty calipers and/or carriers stopping free sliding and release.

This has been a problem on my previous VAG cars too, Octavia and Alhambra which were conventional handbrakes. Once I had serviced them properly by stripping them down, properly cleaning and dressing with a hand file, lubricated correctly in the right places with Ceratec grease, the problems went away.

I am of that belief too which is why I said maybe people should stop looking at discs as the root of this  problem (what material would be that that would allow such a quick wear anyway...) and investigate calipers. Would make much more sense.

[FrankLK]

@GeorgeB

It will not make you happy but if any comfort, owners of mazda3 are replacing rear discs very often and there is no fix, also with electronic hand brake. 

[FelisBengalensis]

On 10/01/2019 at 06:46, FrankLK said:

This is the the cost of e-parking brake, not only skodas problem. 

 

I have had three cars with e-handbrakes and none have suffered from rear wear as badly as my now handed back S3.  I currently have two BMWs fitted with e-brakes and e-handbrakes, one is 8 years old and I have just replaced the rear pads.  This discs are absolutely fine.

[JamesEnfield]

My discs in 2000 miles car are extremely damaged visially. Lot of vertical scratches and noise when braking. I took it to dealer they asked me to observe it apparently there is some issue with rear brakes but my vin is not on the list nevertheless if they will not get better over time they will replace them.

[Martin201]

Since mine had its first service six weeks ago and the report back was that the front pads were 17% worn whilst the rear pads were 30% worn, I have switched off the auto-hold button and only use the e-handbreak when stopped as I assumed it was the cause.

[newbie69]

Just to make it clear, by worn/scorched you mean that the surface does not look "flat" or it does not feel flat to the touch?

I ask because here is a photo of my rear discs on the GTI, 26k km 2.5 years in, with Auto-Hold ON since the beginning:




Would you, by the looks of it, call this a worn disc?

Edited 13 January, 2019 by newbie69

[JamesEnfield]

2000 miles.

 

these discs are made of butter

[WeeDee]

Here's my rears after 1900 miles. The fronts are fine. Should I raise this is an issue? Never seen it this bad on previous cars.

Edited 14 January, 2019 by WeeDee

[nicknorman]

On ‎13‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 19:52, Martin201 said:

Since mine had its first service six weeks ago and the report back was that the front pads were 17% worn whilst the rear pads were 30% worn, I have switched off the auto-hold button and only use the e-handbreak when stopped as I assumed it was the cause.

Not sure I follow that logic. The auto-hold uses all 4 wheel brakes - it's the same as pressing the brake pedal. The e-handbrake is only on the rear wheels.

[nicknorman]

Anyway, in my case there was nothing obviously wrong with the rear callipers. The pistons were easy to push back and the sliders uncorroded. I think it is just the material the discs are made from.

[xman]

7 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Anyway, in my case there was nothing obviously wrong with the rear callipers. The pistons were easy to push back and the sliders uncorroded. I think it is just the material the discs are made from.

 

Just curious, do the rear pistons need to be wound back like on conventional non ebrake versions? And if so does it use the same tool with two pins that engage with the piston?

 

[nicknorman]

6 minutes ago, xman said:

 

Just curious, do the rear pistons need to be wound back like on conventional non ebrake versions? And if so does it use the same tool with two pins that engage with the piston?

 

 

No, they just push in. But of course first, you have to put the electronic parking brake into "lining replacement mode" which requires VCDS or similar. Apparently as a bodge you can just unplug them and supply them with power of the appropriate polarity but I wouldn't like to do that. When you exit "lining replacement mode" there is lots of whirring to and fro as they settle in the correct place. I'm not sure what would happen if you had "cheated" by just applying a voltage to unwind them.

 

I think the winding back thing is part of the parking brake self-adjust - not appropriate to an electronic PB. The latter I think just motors in until the motor current increases with the increasing load as the pads go tight. Measuring the increase in current will give a good indication of the force applied, which I'm sure is how the system knows when to turn the motor off. As the pads wear, the motor will just go a bit further (and presumably still back off a fixed distance, so the overall travel remains the same).

[Martin201]

10 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Not sure I follow that logic. The auto-hold uses all 4 wheel brakes - it's the same as pressing the brake pedal. The e-handbrake is only on the rear wheels.

Fair point, I assumed it all worked on only the rear wheels thanks.