Reeky

Looking to replace my much beloved Subaru Legacy Spec.b I think I'm going to need two cars, and one of them is going to have to have a nice petrol engine with at least 6 cylindes, and probably only two seats. Which leaves me with a relatively tight budget to buy an estate, one of the options I'm looking at the mk3 Octavia VRS, either in economical TDI form, or in petrol form with the performance pack, both with the manual, rather than the DSG. I'm also considering a Superb, in 2.0 TDI 170 4x4 guise, and an F31 BMW 320 Xdrive, B8 Audi A4 Quattro Avant, 2.0 manual, in either petrol or diesel. I know that the petrol VRS is the most fun and the most powerful and the lightest, and so quickest in the dry, and the diesel is the most economical. I intend to tow occasionally, so I'm considering the Superb 4x4 too, given that I'll have the sportscar for thrills. How do they compare to the BMWs and Audis? My experience with Haldex (admittedly the older generation) wasn't impressive, and so I'm leaning towards the diesel VRS, at least of the Skodas. It has nearly identical power to the BMWs, it's a bit lighter, but of course it's only FWD. I know the Skoda is hands down the more practical of the two, but which is the best to drive? And by that I mean, which is most fun? (I know, a 2.0L diesel estate car isn't designed for thrills, but hey) Note that I'm aware there is a VRS TDI 4x4, but that it is DSG only. Likewise the 3.0L BMWs/Audis, they are automatic only too, I insist on a manual) I'm also considering getting only one car, in which case it'll be an Audi S4 avant, in manual, 3.0L supercharged V6 form) So, anyone who's driven these cars, particularly the diesel VRS and the 320d xdrive, as those are the two I'm currently favouring, I'd be keen to hear from you

You can have a mechanical LSD fitted to almost any hot hatch, just google [car] LSD. Personally, I've given up on all FWD cars, I'm fully subscribed to Subarus. Like @OccyVRS , I'm quite young (22) so found myself in a Legacy Spec.b, rather than a WRX STI, meaning I have the same 245hp as the VRS, but with twice the grip and roughly the same weight, and I love it. The best bit is that it's just as fast in the wet as it is in the dry, ohh, and it was £3000. Personally, I'd struggle to justify the cost of a relatively new hot hatch - you can buy the ordinary economical version and a Porsche Boxster S or an Impreza STI or whichever other depreciated performance car takes your fancy. But here are a couple of MK3s Ive found for you with the diff, not sure about you, but this is the one that caught my eye because it's a manual estate in a nice colour. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202509206487024?sort=price-desc&twcs=true&searchId=9c0d7642-f2b7-4689-b32c-b54d3de84dd9&aggregatedTrim=vRS&fuel-type=Petrol&make=Skoda&min-engine-power=200&model=Octavia&page=1&postcode=ll546sh&transmission=Manual&advertising-location=at_cars&fromsra&backLinkQueryParams=aggregatedTrim%3DvRS%26channel%3Dcars%26fuel-type%3DPetrol%26make%3DSkoda%26min-engine-power%3D200%26model%3DOctavia%26postcode%3Dll546sh%26sort%3Dprice-desc%26transmission%3DManual%26flrfc%3D1 For that money, you could buy yourself the slightly older prefacelift VRS diesel, which is also cheaper to tax and much more economical, and a performance car of your choosing, and a trackday or two, or a warranty. If you're happy to buy something with a fair few miles on it, you could get a mk3 VRS diesel, again a blue manual estate, from under £5000. A decent 986 Boxster S, the 3.2, which is the one to have, is about the same, or an Impreza STI for about £7000. The latter will run rings around just about anything in the wet, short of a 911 turbo.

As with the Golf GTI, it was an optional extra. As part of the pack you also got bigger brakes and slightly more power, I believe that's it. Autotrader lists the diff is the specs of the cars which have it. (I think they call it an "electro-mechanical locking differential"

The best VRS is the 2.0 petrol mk3 with the clever front diff. Its the same as a mk7 Golf GTI with the performance pack.

Thanks - are all the airbags compatable in that they won't give me a warning light, and they will actually deploy should I need it to? With the VRS wheel, can the paddles for the DSG be removed, or better still, be used for something useful like switchable maps?

Also, can I fit the seats from a MK2 VRS? Do I need to make sure that they're from the estate in order to ensure that the rear seats fit? And what about the doorcards, are they worth changing and are they compatable? Thanks

I've recently picked up a 2009 Fabia 2, and the standard plastic steering wheel is in a bad state and is frankly revoulting. Can I fit a steering wheel from a newer/better model? I don't want anything bigger than the current one, and I'd rather not be left with buttons which do nothing (the current one hasn't got any buttons). Ohh, and a functioning airbag is a must. Also, if possible, I'd like to add cruise control, but I've no idea if that's practical, or if it's a wiring nightmare (1.9 TDI manual) Thanks!

So after looking a bit further, I'm drawn to either a Superb in (170PS 2.0 TDI 4x4 form) or an F31 BMW 320D Xdrive - I know, a slightly bizzare conclusion - but hear me out - they are the most powerful diesel manual AWD estates, without going for the ridiculously heavy V6 TDI Audis. They also both have manual handbrakes. The Superb is bigger, more practical, and can tow more. The BMW is marginally more powerful, quicker, and faster, and the AWD system works the other way around (i.e. its always RWD with a clutch occasionally engaging the front wheels). I imagine that the Skoda is likely to be the more relable of the two, and the cheaper of the two to repair. Fuel economy I imagine will be identical, although the BMW is £100 a year cheaper to tax. However, it's also much much easier to find a Skoda with all the optional extras, whereas in my price range, you take what you can get with the BMW. The BMW should be better to drive, especially if I can get one with the adaptive dampers. Its 10hp and 50NM up on the Superb as standard, and apparently they both weigh 1580kg, and its 1.5 seconds quicker to 60. However the Skodas boot is 140L bigger. Given that I doubt I'll need the extra bootspace, legroom, or towing capacity of the Superb, is there anything I've missed out?

I currently have Pilot Sport 5s on my car, having worn through a set of Uniroyal Rainsport 5s in about a year. I happened to get a very good deal on mine, had I not found such a good deal, I'd probably have bought Falken Azenis FK520s

Why only look at cars with less than 100,000 miles, especially givent that it's the TDI they want.

Yeah, the Passat also has 17" wheels with a sensible amount of tyre sidewall, which also helps with comfort. I dont mind firm suspension, I do mind if its so bad that I need a new spine, or if its so low it scrapes on speedbumps, etc.

Yeah, but realistically the weight difference is something like a full vs empty tank of fuel, or giving one of your mates a lift, especially if theyre a bit partial to mcdonalds... Here is where the problems lie, becuase in the standard 184hp form, I agree, but I'm sure I'll be tempted to remap it, or possibly even more than that, and the more the power climbs, the more I'll find myself wanting the extra traction. I live in Wales. When it isnt cold and wet, I'm not driving, Im too busy having a party of walking up a mountain. It rains more often than it doesnt, and the roads are at least "not dry" at least 2/3rds of the time. The other option of course, if I wanted AWD and petrol, is a Yeti. But then I suspect Im just converging on Subaru levels of thirst if I start chasing power with one of those. My mum has offered me her old 2013 Passat quite cheaply, since she is moving to a place with a low emission zone. Its on 166k and its the 2.0tdi CR140, so should map to roughly standard VRS TDI power. From my understanding, the Passat is a bit heavier than an Octavia, and its longer, but has a better rear suspension setup (Scirocco uses Passat rear suspension, rather than Golf, which Im guessing is what the Octavia uses). So for less than half the price of an Octavia, I can buy my mums old Passat and have it remapped, that seems like a no-brainer?

That doesnt really bother me - I have found I really like Skoda interiors, so many cubby holes and cupholders. Thats supprising, I remember my MK2 Octavia Scout had a really tight turning circle, and the ride was rather excellent, but on a twisty road it didnt feel nimble at all. I did notice the weight difference when looking at the figures, supprisingly the BMW is even heavier than my AWD 3.0L Subaru... Not even close, the Skoda definately wins hands down, the boot is vastly bigger, although Im guessing the seats dont fold down flat? Personally, I havnt got kids, but I do have a lovely big dog, so I do need an estate. Would this be true at an independant garage, or if I were to service them myself? With my Subaru I mostly service/repair that myself, but thats because everything is quite simple, whereas with all the german cars, everything seems to be buries much deeper, with several more layers of plastic, so Ive always taken them to someone else to fix for me. Yep, Im doing a few too many miles with my 22mpg Subaru, and itll eventually fail its MoT for virtually irrepairable rear subframe rot. My only criticism for how it drives is that the steering could be heavier and have more "feel", as the journalists would say. And the clutch is appauling in traffic, because the previous owner fitted an uprated one, fit for over 400hp. Thanks for your contribution, definately some useful things there, if I wasnt such a keen driver, Id be buying another Skoda in a heartbeat. Well, I know both will cope with the motorway duties just fine, its more the twisty A-roads and overtaking both lorries on the only stretch of suitable road for what seems like 50,000,000 miles. My Subaru is excellent at that sort of thing, loads of power and loads of grip, a relatively lightweight and nimble chassis, good suspension, big brakes etc. Im certainly not a vegan. Very likely, but only if the rest of the car can cope with it. Yeah, although I'd say that the A6 is a 5-series rival. The daft thing being, the Octavia has the biggest boot of them all! Really I've no use for the extra size of a 5-series/A6/Superb, so its just an extra half ton or so of car, making it slower and thirstier than it need be. Obviously in a straight line, a 330D will walk away from a VRS TDI, its got 50% more engine. My question is, if you're going for a drive down a nice bit of road, which one is more involving and more fun? I dont think I'd need more than 180hp, and the VRS has the same top speed as my Subaru (not that Im cruising above 140mph very often). If I were willing to consider an auto, which I'm not sure I am, is it worth me looking at the AWD version of the VRS? They arent as expensive as I thought, with a few on autotrader under 10k. Obviously, if I'm looking at autos, that broadens my choices quite a bit.

So, I'm contemplating a MK3 VRS TDI, given that the prices are coming down, and the road tax is cheap, to replace my aging Subaru Legacy. I don't NEED awd, and having driven both a MK2 Scout and my Mums VW Passat, both 140hp 2.0 diesel variants, I'm confident that if any diesel skoda can scratch the itch, itll be one of these. I do intend on modifying it for more power, although time will tell how far down that rabbit hole I go. So - the point of this thread is, I'm also tempted by a BMW, the 320D has the same power as a diesel VRS, and the 330D is very tempting indeed, however both are much less practical and quite a bit heavier, and I'm not enough of a badge snob to put any value at all on the emblem on the bonnet/boot. Has anyone here owned/driven both a VRS TDI and a 320D/330D? I know neither will be as good as my Legacy, but then very few cars are.

This angers me greatly, I agree. But there are plenty of roads where this doesnt happen. And even a Micra will get you a ticket on the straight flat bit of road if you put your foot down. What was it you said about naff tyres yesterday? Tyre width isnt actually half as much of a big deal as you might think - the narrowest tyre Ive ever encountered was a 155, the same as on a K11 Micra. My Subaru uses 215s, which is only one size bigger than some MX5s, and Audi RS6 uses 285s. The quality of the tyre matters quite a bit more than its width, a Pilot Sport in MX5 size will give you much more grip than an RS6 sized linglong. Better grip, although it means you cant slide around as easilly, it means you can stop much better. In the world of fast, practical estates, like the Octavia VRS, Subaru Legacy, Audi RS6, whatever it may be, sliding around isnt the point. Even the new BMW M3 touring is AWD, and all the RWD BMWs have had wider rear tyres than the fronts for ages. Again, not sure whereabouts you are, but nobody walks back from the pub here, because there arent any pubs and everything is too far to walk. And you dont drive so fast that you crash into stationary objects like walls or fences, thats called being a plumbsack.

Excellent, so it sounds like if youre looking at the diesels, none of which got the VAQ diff, its really just a trim package? Albeit with bigger brakes and shorter, stiffer springs? I really dont have £10k to splash on a car. This is the odd thing, because Subaru do a similar thing, most of them, including mine, just have a normal viscous coupling in the center diff, but some of the STI models have DCCD - driver controlled center diff, and all that is, is a rear torque-bias, open center diff, and the ratio of the torque bias depends on exactly which car youve got, and then theres an electronically contolled clutch which can effectively "lock" the diff. Personally, I dont really see the point, because when the diff "locks", you loose the rear torque bias, and when the diff is open, the fact that its an open diff is more noticable than the torque bias. The normal Subaru setup works so well, and because the chassis is so communicative and the suspension on mine (the spec.b) is so well set up, it doesnt feel as though it needs a rear torque bias. Its got so much grip that you fall out of the seat before itll oversteer or understeer. Obviously. What I was refering to was any difference in steering feel between a GTI and a VRS might come down to wheel size and tyre choice, because a stiffer sidewall generally speaking gives more "feel", although not always more grip. Depends on the corner. A Nissan Micra cannot corner as quickly as a performance car, and it certainly cant accelerate as quickly. One of my favourite roads has a hill so steep that a Nissan Micra cannot even maintain 60mph going up it. Its just a matter of choosing the right time and place. Obviously going past a school at half past 3 on a tuesday afternoon isnt the time to test out your new remap or whatever, but on an empty, twisty, 2 lane road with excellent visibility, that you know reasonably well, is a perfectly acceptable time to have a spirited drive. Being mindful of other road users, including any pedestrians etc, is of course vital. However, with good observational skills, and not being a total plumbsack, its absolutely safe to drive fast sometimes.

Ive found that the "hack" for cheap insurance is to go for something a bit left-field, and odly, very rare. My Legacy is £545 a year, fully comp, and Im the same age as you. Granted I live in the arse end of nowhere, but I cant think of anything with 240hp+ that I could insure for even twice that much. Even my 140hp diesel Octavia was over £800 I think, not that I kept it for a full year. Ive never tried getting a quote on a 350Z/370Z, partially because I dont really want one, but mostly because I suspect Ill be laughed off the website. Yep, exactly what Im finding with my Subaru. I think its a bit more "sporty" than an Octavia, the boot isnt quite as big, the ride isnt as good, it drinks a bit more fuel, etc. But then unlike an Octavia, the seats fold flat, its got a massive sunroof, its makes a fabulous noise, a propper AWD system, and so on. Ohh, and it only cost me 3 grand to buy. The cheapest manual VRS 230 estate on autotrader is the best part of £10000, but for arguments sake lets say Id get it for £9k, exactly 3 times what I paid for my Legacy. Interestingly, the quoted 0-60 times are exactly the same, 6.6 seconds, but only one of them will do that in the wet, which living in North Wales, the road is almost always wet. The Skoda is actually quite a bit lighter than my Legacy, almost 200kg infact, thanks mostly to its smaller engine, gearbox, and lack of AWD, I suspect. Anyway, enough of me rambling on about how marvellous my Subaru is, this is a Skoda forum. So forgetting the clever front diff in some of the newer cars, what are the advantages of a VRS over the normal Octavia? As far as I can tell, you get some different bumpers, nicer seats, better colour choices, and a little bit more power. If I had to guess, I suppose Id guess theyre lower than the standard versions? Do they have bigger brakes, faster steering racks, or anything like that? Thanks!

Does a GTI really drive that much differently to a VRS? I suspect any difference will be down to tyres more than anything else. They really arent that great. Too heavy to be a propper sports car, too few cylinders to be a muscle car, and they're utterly impractical given how big they are, you may as well buy an MX5, or a Z4/Boxster/whatever. Agreed, I suspect you could extend that to "any german car", but then Ive never driven any of the BMW M-cars or the really fancy Porsches with scaffoling in the back. If youre talking about practical cars that can seat 4 adults and a dog, and perhaps tow a small trailer, then the list of cars that offer a "connected driving experience" dwindles greatly. If a VRS doesnt offer that, then what's the point in buying it over the standard Octavia? Plenty of the similar hot hatches cant even be fitted with a towbar, Im not sure which ones, but Id take a punt at anything with a centeral exhaust (Mini, Civic Type R, some Renaults?) and Im pretty sure that the Hyundai I30 N cant either. Ive got my Subaru because it does everything. Its getting quite old, and its quite thirsty, so when its due to be replaced, Ill look for something a tad lighter on fuel, but thats about it. I still want its replacement to do everything it can do. I tried an Octavia Scout 2.0TDI, on the basis that I could tweak it to Subaru power levels, but I found the Haldex system so utterly useless that I sold it before doing any modifications at all. Perhaps the newer Haldex systems are better, Ive read no such complaints about the Yaris GR, afterall.

Well, Im also struggling to find a good enough reason. Other than it being a tad thirsty (high 20s on a long run, low 20s most of the time), and being a tad too low, so it scrapes on many speedbumps, theres absolutely nothing wrong with it. Its also got slightly odd tyre sizes so a set of good tyres is £550, and I went through the last set in under 9000 miles (my fault, not the cars). Im going to have a longer comute soon, 40 miles each way, and feeding it £150 a week in petrol is a bit silly if I could get a diesel VRS which is still good to drive but uses half the fuel. I think Ill either just spend the money on petrol, or get a cheap diesel to drive most of the week, and use the scooby a couple of times. If the mk3 diesel VRS hasnt got any clever diffs, I may as well just get an old one thats been mapped for £1500 or so, itll be just as quick. Really it'll depend on what I can insure, not much point in me buying a second car to save money on fuel if the insurance companies are going to demand I spend it all with them instead!

Id only consider a manual... Im also 21, currently got a 250hp-ish Subaru Legacy Spec.b, 6 speed manual, AWD with viscous coupling LSDs in the center and rear. £545 a year, fully comp, no black box. Was only £885 a year fully comp when I was 19!

Can I drive it without remapping it for a bit? Will it just maintain its target AFR? Ill be doing lots of miles, so an overdrive gear would be great. How much less robust is the 6 speed, and is it less robust on all the gears, or just 6th? PD105? Thatll be the last thing on my to-do list, unless I can get one 2nd hand from someone whos breaking a modded car. Are the LSDs the same for all the gearboxes? Im coming from an AWD Subaru with 2 LSDs, and Ive nightmares of the "one tyre fires" Ive had on every single FWD car in the wet. I might try a reverse staggered wheel/tyre combo, we'll see. Awesome, and will the original wheels fit over the bigger brakes? I presume the bolt pattern etc is the same? Thanks!

Fabia Estate MK2, 1.9 TDI, PD105, but apparently the "less ****" version? Im wanting more power, more gears, and an LSD. Will all be DIY installed on my driveway. Also would like to avoid blowing it up. Power - Can I just bolt other PD stuff to it (e.g. PD130 injectors, PD150 turbo, headbolts, etc?) or alternatiely, can I fit a better version of the PD engine, without having to re-wire the whole car? A few other things will probably be aftermarket, like an intercooler, hard pipes, etc. Gears - 6 speed gearbox from a MK1 VRS, that strikes me as being the obvious choice, or is there a better one, from a different car? (Either easier to fit, and/or stronger?) LSD - Just whatever comes up when I google LSDs for whichever car I get the gearbox from? I also suspect that after adding all that power, Ill need bigger brakes, whats the go-to? (Obviously good tyres and pads). And an uprated clutch? Avoiding blowing it up - Ive been told since I was about 6 years old how reliable and strong PD engines are, but everything has its limits. Ive mentioned headbolts earlier, what else can I do? A bigger radiator? Boost and EGT gauges? Mapping - Can I do this myself? From what I understand its more difficult to completely mess it up than it is with a petrol engine, because it cant knock and destroy its self, ergo, if I keep my eye on the EGTs, can I just tune it myself? Its a 15 year old diesel Skoda with parts scavanged from a few scrapyards, it seems like a good a car as any to have a go at mapping. Thanks!

Excellent, thanks. Is there an easy way to tell which cars have that diff? Or was it standard on the Petrol VRS? Thanks!

So its my understanding that the mk3 Octavia is based on the MK7 VW Golf, and that the VRS is based on the Golf GTI/GTD The mk7 Golf GTI had a clever front diff, available as an optional extra. Was this also an option on the VRS? Particularly interested in the diesel. Thanks

Im back... Why? Well Ive now got 3 points on my license (for speeding) and insuring a 250ish hp subaru at 21 with points is, as you may guess, not cheap. I also did some quick maths, and doing 8000ish miles a year is costing me 4-5k a year (fuel, tyres, MoT, tax, insurance, etc) So now Im looking at something cheaper again. I love my subaru, and Im very tempted to just fork out the extra, but these days I feel like I shouldnt really be burning money. Also, its quite low-slung and occasionally scrapes on speedbumps, and there are some carparks I just cant drive into. So what Skodas am I considering now? Well the 2.0TDI mk3 octavia VRS estate is tempting, but theyre holding their values annoyingly well. Then theres the Yeti 2.0 TDI 170, which again, isnt too cheap. Ive also got reserves about the nature of the AWD system. And one other thing about both of these cars, I remember when I had my Octavia Scout with the 2.0 PD140, I was rather disappointed with the fuel consumption, I averaged low-mid 30s most of the time, unless I drove very carefully, and then it was excellent and Id sometimes manage over 60mpg. Given the Yeti is even more boxy, I imagine its slightly worse on fuel? I know that the Yeti is going to be the best at towing, but I dont really tow regularly enough to use that as a significant justification. The Fabia estate (or its SEAT sibling) is also tempting, because its so substantially lighter than the bigger golf-derived Skodas. From memory, the Octavia/Yeti are about 20-25% heavier, and rear legroom is definately not a priority (but boot space is) Just as a thought experiment, lets compare a Fabia/Ibiza estate to an E91 330d Touring. The BMW is 400kg heavier, or about a third, (making the Fabia a 25% lighter than the 330d) and the 330d remaps to about 300hp according to superchips. So the equivelant power:weight in a Fabia would be 225hp. So, roughly how much would it cost me to get that much power? And a quick note, because I know this always comes up, tyres. Ive got uniroyal rainsport 5s on my Subaru, and Ill be using the same tyres on anything else I buy. They dont last very long, but theyre so excellent in the rain that theres no way Id go back to anything else.