nickcoll

No, because you have to keep most things the same to get a true comparison of one variable. Also regarding the tyre width issue in isolation this is known behaviour and happens for the reasons I gave. Yes, there are many other variables that have an effect but I was only addressing one. The second issue of alignment is one of the other factors, but offset, tyre compounds, pressures, and suspension stiffness definitely also have an impact. Another factor is suspension design, and I hesitate to mention it because of what it might unleash in terms of an off-topic response, but the IRS on the 4x4 and more powerful FWD cars is definitely a big factor, and the beam rear axle is rubbish in comparison with the IRS for every aspect of suspension behaviour on Octavias. If I had only ever test-driven beam axle suspended cars I would probably not be driving an Octavia now.

Thanks for the helpful information. I have to say that from new I never noticed it being so wide to the right at any time. Are you sure it is meant to do this when on main beam? That doesn't sound like it is appropriate really to me. I can understand your suggestion that it might help at low speeds and when on dip beam, but this behaviour is happening at all speeds and on high beam as well. It doesn't move back to the straight ahead when I am travelling more quickly along normal roads, which is obviously the time when it is an issue, as effectively I only have one headlight illuminating the road ahead of the car, and the other one is shining into the offside hedgerow. From what you are saying there must be two motors, one which moves the whole assembly and one which moves the lamp within that assembly in order that it can do what you say at low speeds. Does anyone know whether you can fix or replace a sticking motor that moves the lamp within the assembly?

Re-alignment is often needed after replacing the Xenon lamps. Yes, I am sure that the headlamps were put into learn mode before adjustment (by the main dealer). I think it is getting worse but I don't think the motor is duff as the beams do move together, it's just that the offside one is sometimes pointing 30 deg (or so) to the right of where it should be.

Definitely agree that there are many factors affecting steering feel. My observations about tyre width are with everything else being (roughly) the same. And definitely on-road rather than off-road which is a whole different ball game! One other factor which I have played with a bit is toe-in. I have found that the car feels much more responsive and grippy at the front if the alignment is set close to parallel rather than toeing in. Parallel is within the recommended range for my model but at one end of it.

Thanks for all that information, but I don't really understand why one of the headlights (only) would ever shift 30 deg to the offside, or directly into the oncoming traffic. I should also have made it clear that this was not the behaviour when the car was new, that I am pretty certain that this is not the correct or normal behaviour, and that once pointing out of line it doesn't moves back to point in the same direction as the nearside light. I think the offside light is sometimes sticking in a misaligned position. In the past the headlights would follow the road correctly with both lights pointing in the same direction at all times. This is no longer the case. After changing the Xenon bulbs about nine months ago I did have the headlights realigned but I should say that at times prior to this I also noticed the misalignment although it is not easy to tell if you are not in misty or slightly foggy conditions (in thick fog the headlights are not on main beam so again it is less easy to tell where they are pointing). I have just checked and the headlights do perform their dance after the car has started, but it seems more sluggish than it used to be. I have got so used to them doing it that I don't notice it any more. I will pay more attention over the next few days when I start the car after dark.

We'll have to agree to differ then. In my personal view 205s on a 4x4 Octavia are absolutely plenty - this modern obsession with ever-wider tyres has little to do with need and much to do with style. I stress that this view does not apply to powerful FWD cars which obviously need as much grip as they can get because of the conflict between steering and getting the power down. But I stick to my view that steering feel is better on narrower tyres. We have a Scout (which is fitted with 225s) as well as my 4x4 and it has much less steering feel, and what is more it is widely recognised that wider tyres reduce steering feel (all other things being equal). Just to check - you do know that the name of this board is BriSkoda, and why it is called that?

Not sure I understand what you are saying - are you saying that the offside headlight is meant to point at 30 deg away from straight ahead, and from the direction the nearside headlight is aiming? Surely not...?

Rowlocks in what way exactly? I don't think it is rowlocks on a technical level, but if you are saying that you never drive your car at or near the limit then that is absolutely fine and I entirely respect that approach.

In most cases wider tyres will have more grip, but less feel. That is my point, really. The car will also lean more if the tyres grip more, for the same speed around a corner and the same suspension stiffness. Wider tyres will generally break away more suddenly than narrower tyres, because the amount of energy in the car is obviously greater at a higher cornering speed, so when the tyre loses grip the car will slide faster and more quickly. Most of that is obvious when you think about it! Anyway, all of this is a bit of a distraction from the question I was asking, and maybe I shouldn't have complicated things by introducing my reasons alongside my question - any likelihood of a Mk 4 4x4 estate in SE or SEL trim appearing in the future in the UK?

My view entirely. And I think Mazda are right about narrower tyres on the MX-5 for the same reasons, although of course for the MX-5 it is possible because it is rear-wheel drive (and beautifully balanced from the ones I have driven). Narrower tyres mean that you get much more feel from the steering at and around the limit. FWD (which I should have said rather than 2WD) is a rather different matter and a powerful FWD car is always a compromise that gets worse the more powerful it is - retaining feel as the power is increased is a big challenge and maybe that is why there is so much focus on acceleration nowadays rather than going round corners...

Sorry, yes, it's the UK. Here's my personal take on the grip/lean issue: more grip will mean that the car doesn't start to move sideways across the road until a higher speed, which means that when it loses grip it will do so less progressively, and with less advance indication. That means that in general a wider tyre will be less "playful" than a narrower tyre. Also because there is more grip before the car starts to move across the road there is more weight transfer in the body which will result in the car leaning more for the same suspension stiffness. This can of course be countered by making the suspension stiffer but then the ride and compliance over bumpy surfaces deteriorates and so on. The lean is more about weight transfer in the body than it is about sidewall stiffness although it is also a factor. I have personally always found that for a "non-sporty" car the 4x4 Octavia has excellent turn-in and front-end grip, and I have never had any instances of loss of grip either accelerating or on corners (other than when I have intentionally instigated it!) in any conditions apart from oil or diesel on the road. If the car were only 2WD then the issues are obviously more complex because you are trying to do everything through only two tyres and there you will want as much grip as possible but 4WD is a different matter and the car can be more balanced when applying power in corners because you don't have the same conflict between accelerating (which induces loss of grip) and steering (for which you want maximum grip).

I am considering replacing my much-loved 2013 4x4 SE estate (owned from new) with a new model Octavia but I am not greatly enthusiastic having to get a VRS - too boy-racer for me, I'm afraid. Does anyone know whether they will be doing a 4x4 estate in SE or SEL trim? There are other aspects of the VRS which I am not enthusiastic about as well - I think that 205 width tyres are the optimum width for the car to be properly entertaining - wider tyres will reduce the communication through the steering and increase the lean in corners. It will also reduce the ability to control the car by applying power in corners. One of the things I love about my current model is the sheer feel and controllability of it, and wider tyres can only reduce this in my view. Also with wider tyres there is not enough space in the well under the boot floor for a full size wheel and tyre which is a bonus of the 205 width tyres. There are other reasons as well, but it boils down to the SE or SEL being the sweet spot in specs for me. Anyone know anything about this?

I am very happy with the light that comes out of my Xenon headlights when they are correctly aimed, but the offside light often sticks pointing much further to the right (maybe by 30 deg) than it should be. This is most visible in misty conditions when you can sometimes see that it is pointing into the hedge of country roads rather than down the road. It doesn't do this all the time, but it is quite often incorrectly aimed. When I go round corners the aim shifts along with the nearside headlight, but still at the same incorrect angle to where it should be pointing. I am confused about what is happening because I could understand it better if it was permanently stuck pointing at one angle to the right, but as I say its aim does move along with the other one as I drive down twisty roads. I have tried changing the setting for the headlights in the driving more control but that unsurprisingly doesn't make any difference. Any thoughts on how to resolve this?

Sorry, should be 205/55x16, of course!

One further thing that makes a difference is the size of the tyres. My Octavia has 205/55x17 tyres rather than anything bigger (Continental PremiumContact 6). I am sure this will be contentious, but having driven a number of (non-VRS) Octavias with different tyres I think this is the perfect size. It makes the car a bit "playful". Anything bigger/wider ruins this by increasing grip levels and hence reducing the slip angle, which means the car rolls a bit more in corners and reduces the feel through the steering wheel. The new PremiumContact 6 has had amazing reviews in comparison to tyres like the PilotSport 4 and Eagle Assym F1 5, but interestingly I slightly preferred the 5 on my car, probably because the grip level was a bit lower. Although my car is a good handling car, the suspension isn't super firm and again I think the greater grip causes more roll which spoils the handling a bit. This might be different with the VRS models which will obviously be a bit firmer and more resistant to roll. A certain amount of roll is not a bad thing, but beyond a point it starts to change the handling.

The steering in my 2013 2.0TDi 4x4 estate is pretty good, as long as it is in Sport mode. Any other mode is too light for me, and harms the ability to steer steadily and progressively in corners. You absolutely need a certain minimum steering weight to be able to "keep it smooth", and Sport mode is fine for that. I am worried though that the Mk 4 won't offer the same weight of steering - I haven't seen a single reference to the ability to increase the steering weight in reviews and as the OP mentions this is something that is negatively mentioned in reviews. Looking at the user manual reveals some worrying things - firstly the section on "Vehicle Driving Mode" (pp 119-120 in the one I am looking at) simply says for Individual Mode - "Individual mode allows the individual configuration of certain vehicle systems." but there is no reference to what can be controlled. Secondly and more worryingly it also says - "After switching on the ignition, the Normal mode is automatically selected." On my Mk3 the selected mode retains its setting until you change it. I would hate having to always choose Individual Mode EVERY TIME I start the car. One thing I have always wondered is whether it is possible to change the steering weight using VCDS or the like. When I had a Fabia you could do this, and that would very much improve things for me. I know it is an artificial thing, but it still makes a big difference to have firmer steering so that you are turning the wheel against a greater force, helping you to be more measured in your steering of the car. Can anyone who has a Mk 4 let me know how this actually works? Finally there is one thing which also makes a vast difference to the handling of Octavias - which is whether they have IRS or the beam axle. This is an immense difference and is the difference between a sporty car and a run-of-the-mill one. This is never referred to in the reviews I have seen, and I would love to see a review by one of the car magazines of three Octavias where the difference is beam axle, IRS, and also 4x4. From my experience I think that the 4x4 with IRS (automatic fitment with 4x4) is likely to be the sportiest, but it would be fascinating to see a formal review of this. The Octavia is the only MQB platform car where this comparison could be made as far as I know (obviously 4x4 for the Golf is only for the R in the current range, in the UK at least, and I don't think Seat will be bringing any 4x4 variants to the UK).

Yes of course, and I can't disagree, but it is possible to drive smoothly and moderately quickly while still achieving excellent economy. In fact I would argue that balancing the car in corners enables one to drive at a higher average speed while avoiding slowing down and speeding up, which inevitably increase consumption every time you have to regain speed. But I totally take your point that the majority of people may find a DSG improves their efficiency if they don't take the trouble to try and drive smoothly and at a more constant speed.

That's a really helpful and balanced response. Thank you very much for the insight. It is somewhat as I expected - one can get used to DSG and it will do something similar, but it's not as good for helping you to balance the car in corners as a manual gearbox. I suppose in practice that few people bother with any of that anyway - they just push the accelerator and don't worry too much about how stable the body is in corners. For most people, therefore, a DSG is no different than a manual. I may be doing people an injustice, but since I have never heard this issue discussed before I have assumed that this must be the case. I am sure that when I get a DSG I will adapt, but I suspect I will pine for my manual gearbox. Of course it may be that when eventually the specs become known I will face a choice between a manual 4x4 with IRS and 150bhp, or a DSG with 190bhp or so, and what a difficult choice that will be!

Ha! Why does everything get dumbed down nowadays? What happened to progress making things better? No need to answer that!

Probably is not certainly. Do you have any evidence that it is possible? Certainly I would love to be able to specify a car with a non-standard spec but I would be very surprised if that were actually possible.

I am entirely with Octy0GG - I am struggling to work out what to get next. My current car is a 63 reg Octavia 2.0TDi 150PS 4x4 and I love it to bits, but although it is surprisingly rapid I am tempted by a 190PS new one when they eventually arrive. But I am not keen on a DSG. The main question I have not been able to answer when I have driven DSGs is how you use the gearbox to balance the car in a corner. For me this is the most important aspect of a manual gearbox when pressing on - dropping down from 6th to 4th when approaching a bend enables you to use the accelerator to keep the pressure on the suspension, keeping it flat. Without this it's much harder to drive as smoothly when going reasonably fast cross- country. I know this is possible in theory with a DSG by putting it into manual mode but it just doesn't feel the same at all. Can anyone enlighten me on whether this is something I will adapt to, or do most people just let the gearbox do what it wants to do and accept that they body waves around a bit in corners as a result?