Graham Butcher

Well, there have been a few TV documentaries and there are also some tracker companies with their own YouTube channels that I think are well worth your while researching when time permits.

Exactly, that was what I claimed the position to be when the solar company told me that, and while I have been in the industry all my life that has always been the case. Now just like the railways, since privatisation the lines have become somewhat blurred and there is now no longer a single authority that covers all aspects, it is a real can of worms and a living hell for these trapped with in it. I am currently fighting to get an isolator fitted to enable the work to be done, problem is that in order to do that, the fuse has to be pulled out and that takes us full circle again back to the original problem and nobody wants to take ownership of that aspect. I have discovered that my supplier was sitting on well over £1,000 of my money as I have a budget plan with them and that money was increasing with each direct debit they took from my bank and that was for my gas supply., They were perfectly happy to hold onto my money and would have done so had I not probed about and asked questions.

You may have a point about the street chargers, apart from where these are outside people's houses there will be the A holes who will not move their cars out to allow a neighbour to access the charger and before you or any else says it, yes I know that they don't own that parking spot but equally there is nothing anyone can do to make them move it either, not even the police I have tried that avenue when one of neighbours with 5 cars parked across my drive while I was out for the day, and they did not want to know as it was not blocking the highway.

Don't you fall into the same trap as many others do. The truth of the toe rags is that tend to fall into 2 groups, the opportunist who is more interested in might be in car or the boot and those that are stealing cars to order. Nine times out of ten they steal the car, drive a few miles away to a quiet location and systematically tear the car apart looking for any tracker devices. If they find one, they pull it out toss it, change the plates over and drive off safe in the knowledge that they aren't being tracked. What happens to these vehicles then depends on if they are cars that have a high value overseas, or cars / commercial vehicles that have a high value for their parts here in the UK. If the former, they are quickly placed in shipping containers and shipped overseas, if the latter they are within hours stripped of the valuable parts and the body shell chopped up and disposed off. Stolen cars have been put on sales at dealers overseas without even any attempt to hide its origins as once it is there they is zero hope getting anything done about and the local authorities are not even bothered about it either. On a personal level, can I ask you if you get some free charging as a result of your disability, or is that just something that happens in Scotland? I have yet to see any free chargers in my area of England at least.

@toot Sorry, I didn't mean to make you feel uncomfortable about your personal circumstances, if I did, then I sincerely apologize for that. I can understand why you do stay, I thought you stayed because you needed to have a charged car for the following day etc. Here in this part of England, there are loads of CCTV but that does not mean that your vehicle is going to be safe as thieves have learnt that the police do not have the resources to follow up or even react if something is seen on these CCTV cameras and monitors. I have links to the local neighbourhood social media group and almost daily there are reports of cars being stolen in view of CCTV equipment, similarly there are cases of being physically and brutally beaten up, in the high-street which is awash with surveillance cameras and just 500yds from the police station and, yet these attacks go on for approaching 30 minutes before emergency services arrive on the scene, so that is of little comfort to car owners in England, hopefully Scotland performs much better in that regard.

When I can see such schemes being implemented near me, I may change my views, but that does not fully solve the issues I fear. Are they going to install street furniture to allow for each car to have a dedicated charger, in other words if the street can normal except for say 40 cars to parked in it on a daily basis that they will install 40 chargers to allow them all to be charged at the same time and without having loads of long cables that then become a hazard for pedestrians and those with poor sight or blind and also of course these cables could and will present shock risks as they become worn or suffer damage. Also, while Worcester is or was a cheap place to buy, again not everybody earns enough to be even be considered for a mortgage so that is a throwaway statement and is meaningless. If everyone were to move to Worcester in search of a cheap place to buy, the prices would skyrocket overnight. That would be like going back to the days of "Thatcherism", so no, we don't want that ever happening again.

Thieve's paradise, no less. But why do you stay with your car and leave it as other do?

I can't argue with what you have said here, but sadly that situation is not being replicated in many other places across the UK. Have a look at the numbers of tower blocks in London and other large cities and then try and visualise the huge areas and numbers of similarly priced chargers would occupy of highly prized real estate that would fetch millions or maybe billions for developments, which do you think would win the battle for that land, which also has to be within easy reach of those blocks. Are town planners going to completely redesign the cities so that all residential area are outside the city, which would mean greenfield sites, in order to develop housing which allows home charging for those that cannot currently do so?

Yes people are greedy barstewards and inconsiderate, but you are there waiting for your car to charge, why is that? Is it because you need to charge for work the next day, and it is not easy to leave the car, go home and then have to remember to come out again later that night to collect your car before going to bed? That is what some driver/owners would have to do if they can't charge at home. For many that charge would be vital as they have to commute distances to work each day, or are sales reps etc, or people who have out very early in the morning while others are still sleeping as they have to set things up for the rest of society, such those involved in public transport, health etc. These are real life scenes that many are NOT understanding, all I'm asking / saying these need to be understood, but instead, with many people it comes across I don't care about anyone else "I'm alright jack" and that can be seen by those people you describe as being "greedy barstewards" They have got their car on a public charger and "pee'd" off blocking anyone else from making use of the chargers.

I can tell you that it needs to be looked at from that angle and as for getting supplies updated etc, that is not as straight forward as you might think it is. I live in a HA house, a few years the HA asked tenants to consider having solar arrays installed on their homes, I did, at the beginning of July 2022 they stopped working, and I have been battling ever since trying to get them repaired. The chaotic system we have now since the privatisation of much of our infrastructure means that nobody but nobody can agree on who does what any more. The solar panel maintenance company has been out on 4 occasions to supposedly fix the problem, but always have some reason why they cannot fix the problem. The last excuse has been that they need the supply fuse pulled in order to renew some of the wiring and also to replace the inverter. The solar company claims that cannot pull the fuse, it has to be the DNO. The DNO says, nope sorry that has to be done by the actual supplier of the power to me, that is OVO. So OVO were asked to do this for the solar company and OVO say no sorry that is not something that we do now what?? Back to the HA who said that they will ask their electrical contractor about installing an isolator between the meter and the consumer unit to allow the solar company to turn the power off while they do their work. Still nothing has happened, why I'm still trying to get answers. I'm fully expecting it to become a cyclic problem, with everyone kicking the can further down the road all the time. Years ago before all this privatisation came in to play, it was a simple process, the contractor would pull the fuse, do whatever they had to do to cure the problem and then inform the DNO and they would then get someone out when they were next in the area to apply a new seal to the fuse carrier. I don't think anybody would deny that I have been extremely patient in while this has been going, 14 months and still no free electricity from my solar array. My takeaway from all of this, including the whole EV situation, is that talking is both cheap and easy to do, but the doing is the costly and hard part that nobody really seems willing to do. If there is anything that makes it a little awkward to do, then it doesn't happen, despite what the various authorities say, the can gets kicked further down the road, sorry but that is a fact.

Did you read what you wrote? quote Just as thinking need to wait hours for cars to recharge. 😂 Then as your closing sentence, you said Anywhere over 4 hours of typical dwell time is perfect for slow charging. So you do agree that slow charging, which is what you implied, was good enough for people, does indeed involve waiting hours for the car to recharge. 🤣🤣🤣

@lol-lol It has been said here before about you making these claims when you are living in a nice leafy street full of individual houses with drives. Have you seen how some people have to live, crammed in to a 2 up and 2 down terrace house with about 10 to 20 houses in a block, often measuring about 20 feet wide if that and that also includes the stairs? Where do they get the ability to home charge? These houses are so old that they probably would need a major uplift in their power supply first, and then they have to pay for that, get permission to install some sort of gantry etc to run the power from the house to the car etc. For you, it is easy, for many it is a nightmare. Others have to live in a 1 or 2-bedroom flats in a block that may be 20 storeys high etc? This salary sacrfice tax avoidnce scheme is not applicable to all people who want or need a car, so once again you seem to be making the same mistake as many do, failing to step outside your comfort circle and seeing the problem from the other person's view point. I for instance could not take advantage of the salary sacrfice tax avoidnce scheme as I don't have a salary, only the state pension. I really don't understand why it is proving so hard for intelligent people not to understand that we don't all live in the same fashion or enjoy the same standards of living or incomes, what does it take to make people realise that some are more privileged than others so taking a single humongous wide brush approach does not solve the problem. Nor does the constant use of home charging figures being banded about help, it is a kin to many people as quoting how many zeros you have on your bank balances, likewise how many cars you have in your family, all that shows is that are far better off than most people can ever aspire to be, very helpful indeed. 🙄

Firstly, I have NEVER said that all EVs in car parks enter thermal runaway. It is a rare event, but that rarity will disappear over time as EVs become the normal mode of transport, then there is a real danger of a whole row of EV's becoming involved in a fire if just a single car does suffer a thermal runaway as they burn in completely different fashion with jets of fire shooting at sideways at low level and can set other cars on fire very quickly indeed. There are videos showing this happening already on social media, so it is not something I have plucked out of thin air. Currently, an EV is more likely to parked to next to an ICE car, but that won't be the case for much longer, do you not agree? As to the "to solve home charging, flatten all tower blocks, level all terraced houses", suggest another way that people in these conditions could easily switch and enjoy home charging to get cheap charging like you quote? And this is also part of the problem and it seems to a problem that most folk who bang on about how people need to switch to EV's somehow conveniently seem to completely ignore, which brings the discussion full circle back to the point where I started, HOW do you make it attractive and affordable enough that people in less than ideal living conditions CAN make that switch. I for one would be keen to see how you would solve that issue.

All very true, but why should people who have become accustomed to having new cars be expected to buy a second-hand car with unknown history? There must be simply loads of people living in housing which does not lend itself to home charging for a multitude of reasons. Then there is price disparity between EV and ICE, which does nothing to aid that shift away from ICE vehicles. That is further compounded by the need to buy and install a home charger (if you are able), to take advantage of the cheaper cost of charging at home. These are the real problems that need to be addressed if the gulf between the haves and the have-nots, is not to widened even further. I have been used to having a brand-new car every three years for over 40 years of my life, and they have been extremely reliable and I always treated the car, even though it was a company car, as if it were my own and so treated them with respect. Never ragged it round, unlike my colleagues did. I looked after my company cars so well that when I retired I knew I would never be able to afford to buy new again, so I purchased my company for a wonderful price, which made perfect sense, I knew the cars complete history. I would be happy to stick with the car for a long time and I did, almost 10 years, and I would still be happy to own it today if some clown had not decided to cause an accident to wrote it off for me 😭. Anyway, the whole point was that people should shown how EV ownership could still be possible even when home charging was currently not possible, and that the transition need not mean second-hand cars, nor did it mean that cost of buying and running was not going to be any higher than their current cars. All ICE owners and drivers have into the habit of driving to fuel station, so why not do the same with EV's, make charging stations as common as normal fuel stations, make the cost comparable and equip all EVs with fast charging as standard, so they don't have to waste hours and hours waiting for a full charge or just a top-up. Supermarkets could be a useful location for this, while cars are charging, the drivers could be shopping and if the car is only being used mainly for short local trips as many are, they would only need a trip there once a week or less.

Glad that you admit it needs resolving, but how do you propose it is done, flatten all tower blocks, level all old unsuitable streets full of terraced houses many of which are barely any wider than a cars length, and rebuild millions of house with drives? The point that I was making was that quoting what you pay for home charging does NOT those that can't and that cannot see a way that they own an EV. Showing that there is a good supporting structure and making public charging no more expensive is a solution to the problem. Like I said, who fills their ICE at home, nobody, so make an EV appear to be as easy and no more expensive than a conventional car to buy, refuel, and run. Geez.....

Well did you hear him mention the UK, which is the only market I'm interested in. Articles and videos I've read and seen suggest the UK sales for EV is slowing down. The aircraft one is a bit worrying.

You just can't see the wood for the trees, can you, you completely missed the point. Not everyone can have the ability to charge at home for the reasons I keep pointing out but somehow, you totally ignore and gloss over. The market for EV's is luke warm at best and people extolling the virtues of charging at home and how wonderful the world of Tesla's is not going to convince people to cast off their ICE in favour of EVs, when firstly they cannot afford the better class of EV's and Tesla, Polestars etc they are looking at the more budget price end of the market, people do not have the money to splash in this cost of living crisis, and nor do many people have the ablity to charge at home. I suggest that most people who can, either have seen the cost benefits and already made the transition, or are considering doing so. When you consider you can still buy a ICE mini for £22,935 and the equivalent in EV mode, the price jumps up to £32,550 many people will see the EV as being unnecessarily expensive, plus they also see the problems that they will have charging at home and public charges could well mean they will actually cost more to run than the ICE version. Now, it might be difficult for you to understand, but try and see it this way, if people could buy the EV at the same or very close to the same price as the ICE model, that would remove objection number 1. People are used to having to go to a garage for fuel, so if they could go to a public charging point and could charge at similar price to filling an ICE car, that removes obstacle number 2, not being able to charge at home for the reasons I've mentioned many times before. If some can get a home charger installed, then they might well be laughing all the way to the bank. To achieve that there needs to be plenty of charging points close to home. They would then be getting the benefits of a nice new car, without incurring a massive price lift in either buying or running and they also be able to feel good about themselves doing their bit for the planet. Winner winner, chicken dinner. Now do you see the point and understand the logic??

I don't dispute your figures etc, but it is not possible for a large slice of the population and that's why I said that keep referring to home charging is NOT helpful in the slightest. It makes people either believe that having an EV might be beneficial for them now, so they go and buy one, only to discover that not only is there in some cases a lot of red tape and obstacles to overcome that they were not fully aware of prior to buying the car. What is required to help people to switch to EVs is direct comparisons ICE v EV where the methodology of operating is give or take the same for each and the costs need to reflect similarly as well. I have mentioned before that in cities, there are masses of high-rise tower blocks and those people cannot even consider having a home charger installed, older style houses and roads also do not lend themselves to home charging, especially if you cannot even be sure as in my case, of getting a spot outside your own house in order to connect your charger. So please, could everyone cease quoting their home charging figures as it is not a realistic possibility for many people. The sooner governments etc realise the way to speed up the process of converting people from ICE to EV is to make it as painless as possible. That has to start with the initial cost up front when buying the car, then the running costs need to be absolutely on a par with those for ICEs as a worst case scenario. They also need to ensure that there are enough working chargers around and that includes in rural areas to allow people to get tops wherever they are and not have to head into towns and cities and adding to their congestion just in order to get a top-up when you have been to a some outdoor event like Glastonbury for example. People with ICE cars will not normally have any trouble filling up without going into urban areas to do so.

That was me saying that sometimes, especially in this weather, getting into my car when it has been parked for a while, is just like going into a sauna, the heat inside the car is way hotter than the outside is so that is when I have to turn the air con onto a low setting with recirculation on to lower the temperature quickly to make it comfortable and as it gets more comfortable, I slowly increase the air con setting up to about 21C.

I have never really thought about wind deflectors, but as you mentioned them, it made me think of them and although my car does have a full sized door frame, I don't think it would be possible to fit them even as (I think most modern cars fall into this trap), windows do use guides any more like older cars, the glass just rests against a rubber door seal, relying on the portion of glass left in the bottom section of door for its positioning.

I don't think that is fair criticism, what we don't know is, and he didn't say, but he may well have found chargers closer to the main route home, but they may have been all in use, some may have been out of order, or maybe for reason unable to get his card read correctly or is using a phone app, unable to get a signal, these are things can happen as there is still a massive imbalance between number of chargers to fuel pumps, bearing in mind that a fuel pump will top up many cars in the time it takes a single EV to get topped up.

It annoys the hell out of me when I go to the supermarket and park my car usually a fair distance from the shop entrance as most park as close as possible, to come back with a trolley full of shopping to find some Ahole has parked right next to me and left me just enough room for a stick insect to in or out off. I'm quite a large unit and have had to often wait for the driver to come back before I can get in, all the time with my shopping sweating it out in the boot. So if it becomes a rule that supermarkets have to start providing wider spaces, I'd be happy with that.

Yeah, I think it is not really helpful when people bang on about most people charge at home because I have always said that is not the case. It really does depend on whether you own your house, where you live, do you have incoming power etc. I live in a HA house which means that before I could even think about getting a home charger, I would need to get permission to install one, then I would more than likely have to have the incoming power upgraded, and then I'd need to be able to actually park close enough to the charger in order to use it. So many times if I have been out for the day and get back later in the evening, someone is parked outside my house and my drive has been blocked off by others inconsiderate parking as I live in cul-de-sac and 2 or more of my neighbours have 5 or more vehicles and have an almost constant stream of visitors, some even stay overnight. The estate is one which is open plan and there are no garden fences or gates etc and front gardens are only about 1.5 metres wide from house wall to the footpath. So in real terms I think when people are doing their calculations they really should consider these factors and assume that home charging is real luxury and understand that currently for many is not really practical so would better off allowing for public charging, just as you do with ICE cars, who has their own home storage facility and a pump to allow them to buy their fuel in bulk at discount prices, which effectively is what you are doing when charging at home, so once again, its not really a fair comparison.

It has been reported, but the only person I could see who did was Derek Conway. If you have your AC on at 19C, that makes your consumption worse as you're drawing power to drive the AC. I normally have mine set at 21 or 22C to use it as little as possible. But as these mk3s are not built to the same standard as the mk2s, I find that when I get in the car is like a bloody sauna, so turn the AC down 16 or 17C to rapidly take the temperature down and then I gradually turn it up again as the car cools down. If I don't I find, like I'm cooked, as I get older I find I don't like heat so much, 21/22 is fine if your not doing anything, attempt to do anything at those temperatures and I become a walking puddle of sweat. I like you, coast down hill, even if it is a slight incline downwards, I always try and take advantage of it.

That was a bad mistake on their part then, I'll have to check the comments, maybe someone else pointed it out to them, ☑️ The aircraft one is a bit worrying.