Graham Butcher

Bearing in mind how the software updates that Microsoft puts out for their operating system and how often a downloaded update breaks something else so they have to hastily put out another update to fix the last one, I should think that OTA updates on cars could be a buttock clenching time in case some other part of the car starts to malfunction afterwards? Also, these computer updates can take a bit of time to do at times, depending on the size of the update, so on say a Tesla with the OTA updates, when does that occur, while the car is being used? While the car not in use? And if it updates when the car is not in use, what happens if you decide you need the car and its still doing the update, are you prevented from using car until its completed or how does that work? Has anyone ever experienced an issue at all?

@wyx087nobody is saying it is not possible to take a city or small EV on a long, but because of their smaller battery capacity, they need more frequent charging stops and thus longer time on the trip. Why did you elect to opt for the LR Tesla over the standard model? Was it perhaps to save charging stops and thus time on longer trips?

@Ootohere The possibility is there for almost every modern car these days to be remotely disabled with ever-increasing use of electronic tech in cars. This was never possible in the golden era of cars. Just imagine the situation if in WW2 that was possible then, the chaos it would cause, but for the side that had that power, victory would be a certainty.

@Ootohere Ok I stand corrected then, but still the maths using @wyx087 metrics of the comfort breaks remains true, just that the Mini is capable of even faster DC charging of upto 50kW but not the 200kW that he claimed, although his Tesla might well be. Also I was right in as much as for the folk on Orkney, who might never take their car on a longer journey then from point A to point B on the island, then they can do that without the need for a charge in order to complete the journey so it does make good fiscal sense to run an EV with home charging as all charging can be done at home at lower rates.

You really need to work harder at reading what was written down and understanding it. I never said EV's were not convenient in day-to-day use, if their range is suitable and charging ability was also suitable and affordable and if that is what a person wants to opt for then so be it. What I have said is however, that I didn't think that they should be forced upon people, but that they could be an option for people to choose if they suited their needs. For some reason, you seem to have taken the stance that anyone that does not agree with your viewpoint is automatically and irreversibly opposed to EVs as a means of transport, which plainly is not true. I have also pointed out just why I don't think that they are suitable for me personally and I have also pointed out the obvious real world risks that the they pose, but I would not stop you or anyone else from owning and running an EV, its your choice and I respect that. If you had actually read and understood what I posted, I clearly stated that the car was an electric Mini (Google says that it has a max charge rate of 11kW, not the 200kW that your Tesla is capable of) that was being used for the trip as not everyone has the luxury of having a choice of another car, or being able to afford the hiring of another car for the long distance travelling when needed, and I was the same example when discussing the Orkneys with George, and that was because he has one and frequently posts interesting logs of his journeys and how he charges the car on those trips. You not only overestimated the miles between the most northerly and southerly point of the UK, but you also got the time it would take for such a drive and still be within the legal speed limit, wrong. It is a widely accepted rule of thumb that it is reasonable to expect on a long trip that 50mph is a good yard stick to use for estimating the time of the trip, so if the distance was 1100 miles that you claimed, it would take 16 hours (in reality 1100 /50=22 hours). You also thought that for 16 hours of driving, you would need 5 to 6 comfort stops of 20 minutes each to refuel/charge and empty your bladder, thus making your journey time become at least 18 hours. So using your metric of every 2.67 hours driving (based on 6 breaks), a comfort break of 20 minutes would be needed, so accepting the 50mph average speed, that becomes 22/2.67=8.24 comfort breaks to be taken, adding another 2.72 hours making an approx total time of 18.72 hours to complete a trip that is essentially John 0' Groats to Land's End. I did also however, for the sake of keeping the total time to a minimum, say that I had assumed 2 drivers per car to keep driver fatigue at bay. I did however enjoy the thought of the passenger seat having an optional toilet built in and had a good laugh at that.

This is not unique to Manchester, it is a Government approved scheme which has been rolled out across the country, utter madness, cyclists here also ride against the traffic even though there is a cycle lane on the other side of the road and even worse, where their used to be lay-bys for the buses to pull-in , they are now cycle lanes and the bus stops as per the video.

I think you may be right on that, I seem recall George posted about that a while ago, but that would still be dependent on suitable sailing weather conditions?

What are you on about, it is out of context completely. An older mini electric like Ootohere's fully charged could go from one side to the other on Orkney 4 times before needing to be recharged, The same reason as many airfields now run electric vehicles for many of their operational vehicles and when the airfield closes at the end of the day, put them on charge, and they are ready to go again next morning. The UK is 897 miles from top to bottom, and averaging 50mph is 18 hours driving non-stop. Try and do that trip in a new Mini Electric with theoretical range of 250 miles, would require 3.6 charges to complete the journey and each charge, using an 11Kw charger would be taking around 3.5 hours so that is 3.6 x 3.5 =12.6 hours total charging time, on top of the 18 hours making a total of 30.6 hours, even with 2 drivers means a 15.3 hour each to complete the trip. My diesel car would be able to do that trip in under 18.5 hours including a stop for refuelling and with 2 drivers would mean each driver would be driving for 9.25 hours, which of course could be split up into small periods, but the trip would be almost non-stop.

True, but somehow I doubt that is the case in Orkney, being it is a small island and that getting a car to or from the island requires a ferry which may or may not be operational according to the tides and weather, so most EVs would be mainly used on the island. Correct, nobody is always right, either 😉 Very true and I have said that EV's are ideal for a lot of people who are doing that sort of thing as when paired with the ability of home charging, fully maximises the advantages of having an EV until they find a way of taking that advantage of low running costs away, which I expect they are already coming up with a cunning plan to make up for lost revenue from liquid fuel duty.

What they actually have ferries . Well now, when you came out with the statement that there are more EV cars on the Islands per population, it peeked my interest a bit so I looked at the island in more detail and its very obvious that the houses there have almost all, got off-road parking, (a fact confirmed using Google Earth) lending itself to home charging, add in the fact that you are always going about the surplus power that Scotland produces, and the sheer compactness of the islands means that with a full battery even your Mini should be able to cross from one side of Orkney to the other 4 times before needing a charge. So I'm guessing that it makes logical sense to use EV's there if you have an abundance of cheap power, plenty of off-road parking to be able to charge at home at without worries and no need to worry about liquid fuel being in short supply if the rough seas prevent ships/ferries from making the crossing from the mainland bringing fresh supplies at times. As to servicing and repairs, all everyone talks about how little maintenance EVs need and how reliable they are as there are less moving parts etc, and it would seem judging be peoples comments and the YouTubers, that most people up there in Scotland seem to use a lot of mobile EV service people who travel around and make these trips, staying overnight in B&Bs, hotels etc between customers, so it was really a matter of joining up the dots to understand why there is a greater EV ownership on the islands.

@RootedI expect that many Islanders seldom leave the island. Whereas down this area some people travel daily from Kent over 100 miles to work and back where my son works, Orkney is only 25 miles coast to coast.

Now come on, when have you ever known or heard a politician admit that they got anything wrong, the closest they get to it they always have some flowery way of phrasing it so it appear as if they passing the buck to a fall guy, some faceless bureaucrat or similar is normally their patsy. 😆

I'm not surprised at the Orkneys given the small size of the islands, the distances really lend themselves to BEV's and the abundance of renewable power generation available.

For all we know, when ICE cars were first launched, they might well have had similar issues with people being reluctant to give up on what ever form of transport they had been using for decades before?

@Winston_Woof Yes it is a Government agency and that is where the problem lies, they tend to deal in truth and data is recorded, whereas the Government is made from political parties and they firstly have one aim, and that is to retain control and put the party before country and there is the conflict of interests, DEFRA is not a political party and is interested only in the country and wants to do good for the country and its people, it has no real power, that lays with what ever political party is in power at the time.

I think everybody is sidestepping the real issue/point here, which is that these sales are largely made up of company purchases because of the incentives that they get make for better fiscal sense, there seems to be a low uptake of BEVs by private buyers and this can be seen by the dealers struggling to sell the 2 to 3 year old cars at the end of their companies tenure on them.

@Winston_Woof Many thanks for the link to, I'll be playing around with the site in more detail later on, but early indications would suggest major disconnects with what we are being told with regard to the need for the LEZ, ULEZ and LTN's and what these other agencies are telling us.

Many thanks for the confirmation, it is certainly looking like I may not be a million miles off after all then. Another thought is, just how much of an impact is nanotechnology having on airborne pollution, we are seeing far more use of nanomaterials these days, such as carbon fibres etc, what possible horrors will be discovered about these materials in years to come?

I cannot find a monitoring station near the railway station but I have found 2 others that are reading high, but are still considered to be in the no risk zone, one is on Barnsley Road near to the junction with Earl Marshal Road and the other is a few hundred metres from the Cruicible Theatre, at Devonshire Green. Both are located in the middle of housing areas, the latter has many high rise blocks in the area and a very quiet road, the first is on the A6135 road but still does not seem to a major road. These 2 I think are reading higher than others due in part to their exposure of air that is impacted with the effects of domestic gas boilers in the area.

My mum was one of 3 sisters, 1 older and 1 younger than her. My mum has always lived in the countryside, a trim lady and passed away at the age of 92 and had been a keen advocate of the virtues of being a vegan and having nothing but organically grown food, much of it she grew herself, so in theory having the very best air quality and best food, whereas her elder sister spend much of her life living London and later in life in major cities around the world as her husband was a high-flyer in the Civil Service and also the military and was posted all over the World, was grossly overweight and smoked and yet she outlived my mum to almost 101. Her youngest sister has lived in London, all of her life until a few years ago when she moved to the Isle of Wight and is currently living in a home for the elderly at Freshwater Bay, and celebrated her 100th birthday early this month.

Central London has had increasing air quality for decades, these days when you drive towards London and you cannot see the dome of pollution hanging over it. Clearly there will still be some pollution there as there will be in any urban area compared to the countryside, that's a given. Yes there is always room for improvements in everything but that does not mean that the ICE should be the automatic target to hit. Yes the PMs of diesels also contribute a lot to whatever pollution there is, but who is to blame for this when governments around the World have been promoting its use for decades, and also is it not true that these days, diesels are getting considerably cleaner and rapidly approaching that of petrol engines as more of the older diesels are making their way to the scrap heaps. Truth is that the air quality in London is generally worse in areas like the South where most of the housing is located and this can be seen in the live data maps I keep linking to and the areas that are far worse than other, can usually be found in areas where is either a underground tube vent outlet or, extremely high levels of domestic housing or where the monitoring station has been located in close proximity to a commercial caterers such as a fast food outlet etc. where they are using gas for cooking and heating. The evidence is right there for all to see if they could only be bothered to look for it using the AQI site to see where the readings are high, drilling down into the data more, and then using Google Earth and Google Maps along with Street views, you can spot the location of the monitoring station in relation to the other things, and also you see the type of road and the traffic etc. For a man who uses the following (below) as his signature line, quote, I would have expected a greater understanding and willingness to investigate and attempt to learn a better understanding of just how we, the motorists are being taken for fools. Your quote. “The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.” Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later that debt is paid. It's Easier to Fool People Than to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled - attributed to Mark Twain.

Let me get this straight then, when builders are uncovering these ancient burial grounds while building the new infrastructure of today, and the archaeologists move in and do their bit about learning all about our past etc, and the bodies are taken to various universities for scientists to do dating and other scientific testing to discover just why they died and learn about life back then, then the data that they produce is worthless, and we actually learn nothing about how long people lived back then etc, and we are all living a lie?

Well let me tell you if that video was Sepiaised then so were my eyes as for many years I had family living in London and we would make regular trips into London to Bow and Finchley to see them and also for many years I spent 5 days a week working in London and also I used to flying out of Stapleford airfield, just within the M25 and when driving into London and also when climbing out of the airfield there was a very distinct and highly visible purple haze dome, like a force field all over London, perfectly visible with the naked eye from a distance. I suppose that the photo lifted from the Getty Images Site has also been doctored to make it look worse? It also important to understand that this photo here is pre London LEZ which was not introduced until 4th feb 2008. I

Is that why the modern trend on ICE is not to have the tail pipe protrude from the rear of the vehicle any more, but to have it finishing beneath the boot floor, so the occupants of the newer ICE vehicles breathe in the highly dangerous fumes of their own cars when they are stuck in slow moving traffic? What is the source of the tables and maps you posted please? For instance, the pollution map of Scotland shows that the most polluted road in Glasgow is Hope Street, and yet Hope Street air quality monitoring station is right next to the Glasgow Central railway station. Trains are known to have high pollution levels and drilling down into where the highest readings are across the country, it is no surprise that highest readings are very often right close to railway infrastructure, be they overground or underground. Also is it not true that life expectancy has never since records began, been better than what it is right now. We keep on discovering human remains during excavations for new infrastructure and they get examined by experts to see what we can learn from about life years ago, and it seems that we are now living considerably longer then our ancestors ever did, so even with all these dangerous fumes etc, we are still living far longer, and our ancestors never had all the cars etc that we have, so how can we explain that?

So, you don't mind being lied to then? First it was the CO2 that was the enemy, then after engineers found ways to reduce the levels emitted, NOX then became bad boy and we are having to pay LEZ tax if our cars don't meet preset levels, now it has been proven that is not the case, PM2. 5 becomes the bad boy. I think again it can be proven that the levels are well within safe limits. I have posted links before to a site where all this is tracked and recorded, included PM10 and it shows the above to be correct.