Graham Butcher

Yes, they are but they are also beneficiaries of the special concession rates and the 5% VAT on home electric (those who can and do charge at home). I just wonder how they would fare if they had complete parity with ICE cars etc, i.e. a level playing field where the buyer had a free choice of any of the fuel types on offer, just how many would opt for electric etc, and what type of car would they be, family cars, SUV or city cars? As a side note, I also know that many people here advocate driving for no more than 2.5 hours without taking a break, but many of us are also ex, or existing HGV or bus drivers, and HGV drivers must not drive longer than 4.5 hours at a time, and bus drivers must take a break after 5.5 hours driving, and hence why I say that many will prefer driving direct to destination and direct back home at the end of the day, they will not want to stop for a break and charge. Having been a lorry driver for around 4 years and also have driven buses, I know that they require considerably more skill and concentration than a car takes, so it should not be difficult to drive a car without the need for break after 2.5 hours, be they EV or ICE, makes no difference.

Oh, I can understand the charges OK, except the EV ones, and here is why, ice is very quick to fill a tank for the next client, but EV, if low on SOC will take a time to get to 100% before they let the car be rented again. The rules of hire are all explained before you rent, and it's bad planning to leave refilling the tank till the very last filling station, as you are an EV owner and thus used to planning charging stops, I'm somewhat surprised that you got caught out. If you are then for any reason, unable to fill up, you leave yourself wide open to the costs as per agreement. If you filled a few kms away, the gauge would still show full and you would be many Euros better off, they only go by the gauge. As to racing noise and the nimbus, they must have known that the circuit was there, so why move into a house close to a circuit? We have the same issues in the UK with people complain to the RAF and International Airports about the planes making noises on landing and takeoff, FFS. Electric racing will never hold the same amount of drama as it is the noise that adds the extra dimension and just the sound alone can convey the impression of speed so even partially sighted people can actually enjoy motorsports. Sorry, but I don't get this obsession with the shear acceleration that EVs have, people are getting killed with cars that do 0 to 60 in 8 secs, so how many more deaths will there be 0 to 60 in 2 secs?

Oh dear, you all seem to be getting completely the wrong impression, I never said that there was any problem with them fitting some peoples usage patterns or for the occasional longer trips, if you can accommodate and factor in the odd rest point with a spot of charging. But that however is not everyone's idea of motoring pleasure. Some prefer to drive straight to their destination, do whatever it is/was that they went there for and then drive all the way back again, without any planned stops for rest etc. They will have had plenty of time to make use of the restroom facilities at their destinations, so are only interested in getting back home to their families ASAP, especially as they may have been on the road since 4AM to get to their destination in order get a decent spot. Get there too late and often, you will be turned away by the Police etc as there is no safe place to park your car etc, and then on top of that, you may be there until 8PM and then have a 3 hour or maybe longer drive home. Stopping to charge just adds to that long drive home and means that you may be at greater risk by so doing. You clearly are able to charge at home, hence the savings in fuel, but as I mentioned earlier, that is not the case for millions of others. One thing I would add to this as well is, don't be surprised if those running cost take a sudden upward trend, as more EVs find their way onto the roads, the lost revenue from VED and fuel duty will have to be clawed back in other ways, the government and normal motorists cannot continue to bankroll you EV boys forever, because that is precisely what is happening right now, you are enjoying those running costs as the ordinary tax payers are picking up the slack, so that's not really fair on others either, and just adding to the social divide I eluded earlier

I wasn't implying that you did say they were for everyone. The fact electricity is almost universally available everywhere in the UK, does not mean that the motorist will always have access to it though, most of it will be in private buildings and they would take a dim view of someone asking to plug in their car I'm sure 😉 What I was implying is that there is a shortage of public fast / super chargers and also destination chargers. At the place where 2 of my son's work, they have wall mounted chargers there for the directors only, the staff nope, not even one, so that means that I have yet to see a single EV car among the plebs so to speak. Also many of the places I go to do plane spotting at various air bases, again, there is not a single charger in the area or within walking distance even. When attending air displays, there are thousands of cars parked in the designated spaces on the airbase and the surrounding fields, again no means of charging while watching, so that means adding even more time onto the already long times for driving to and from in order to top the range to complete the round trip, and those in the areas nearest to them are going to be crammed with long queues waiting their turn at the chargers. That means that you and a few others are the more sensible ones and nothing like the evangelists who simply cannot hear anything negative said about them and going about the air quality etc, which is as it happens exceptionally good overall as it has been in the UK for a decade or more now so has nothing to do with EV's low emission zones etc, but everything to with manufacturing going overseas and ICE engines getting to somewhat better, with 96% less emissions since about 1992. 👍

I wish you would just stop this, see my reply to @Stonekeeper for answers to that question, which is once again, something that I have already explained many times before. Yes I get it EV's do have other benefits as well, but they also have drawbacks.

I'm happy for you that the EV fits your needs nicely, but what about when the distance is greater than your range and there is not the facility to be on charge at your destination. Many of the places I visit are miles away from any real civilization and could be there from dawn to late at night before driving back home again. That would force me to have to find a charger on route and even more time onto the journey. Compare that (currently) with the ability to fill my tank before setting off, and I'm good for over 500 miles at least before I need to add more fuel. I'm perfectly sure that if people could charge easily at home, and also at least get to their destination on a single charge, plug it when they get there (work etc) and it can charge them enough to get them back home, that many more people would adopt them, they have so many other things in their favour besides just running costs (assuming home charging is the norm). I'm afaid that I still firmly believe that the sensible thing to do is have EV's as part of the consumer choice and as technology improves that it might well be that most newer cars would be EVs in due course, but until, then the EV mandate should be dropped.

No not all, I have freely admitted that ICE cars can and do catch fire, but unlike you, I do not and have never tried to make out that everything with ICE is all fine and good and I'm perfectly willing to accept that like all things in life, they come with pros and cons. Now compare that position with yours, you can never accept, anything even slightly negative about EV's. I get it that you love your EV and I'm genuinely pleased for you that they suit your lifestyle perfectly, but that is not the case for everyone, as I and other have attempted to point in the past to you. The first requirement ideally is to have off street parking and be able to have the authority to arrange for a home charger to be installed, something that millions of people don't have. How about those living in multitenancy buildings, like bedsits, block of apartments, towers of flats etc? You would have them being treated like a lower class of citizen, forced into using expensive public chargers and wasting loads of their time sitting around while getting a charge in order to avoid a fine for running over the prescribed time limit which eats into the operators profits as it prevents other from using the charger, while you sleep all smug in your bed safe in the knowledge that you are not causing problems to other with your off street parking, charging and getting a first class deal on price of the Lecky as well. Just man up it about and accept that it may never happen that some people could emulate your position, but as far as you're concerned, you seem that you could not care about others at all. EV's are currently a major social and economic divider, unlike ICE, as anyone who can drive could quite happily live with one of those in their life and have done for over a century. The only way that they create social divides is in the value, type and sheer size of the cars, all of which also are 100% applicable to EVs as well.

I don't know the answer to that question, but those 2 people in the video claim to be software engineers, so I'd be more inclined to take their word that it is possible, then a keyboard warrior who thinks its not possible. When you go to see your Doctor or Dentist and they prescibe some prescription or proceedure to be done, do you disagree with what they say, or do you accept that they know more than you do about their own field of expertise?

That is an easy one to solve, it only 5 minutes to top up the tank in an ICE yourself, also fuel stations are still far more common than EV chargers, so pop into a fuel station, top up the tank to the same level as it was when you picked up the car. They always record the tank level on the rental form and thus expect the car to come back with the same, if not then, of course they are going to charge you for it, it's the same in the UK. It is also incidently, the same proceedure with any courtsey car loaned to you while your car is in the workshop being serviced/repaired, nothing new or unusual about that. Know that I'd prefer to spend a few minutes of my holiday, filling the tank than hanging around at a charger for far longer before driving to the rental yard.

This is food for thought, and it looks like it is NOT restricted to just EV's but the more recent cars of all kinds of power train which may have a phone app for it is well, but most modern cars are connected in some form or other to the internet, and so your security and your car etc could very well be exposed and at the very least, open yet another avenue for car theft? This data theft has just occurred to the 2 people who the MacMaster is talking to, are the ones who have had their data compromised and they are actual software engineers and they are saying that it would be possible for hackers to take control of a car armed with the information that has been harvested. Scam messages have already been received following the data breach. What are you thoughts about this??

Here is another video about the real hazards of electric cars, even if the battery does enter into thermal runaway, please don't just refuse to watch and listen to the video, it could actually help save your life one day.

Oh dear, these electric cars which feature electric/electrinic door handles/locks entraping the occupants inside to be burnt alive because they could not open the doors and likewise rescuers cannot open them from outside either. Now many EV'ers have made claims about people being burnt alive following being trapped inside their cars after a crash. This video now throws fresh light on those claims and when you see the wreckage of those peoples cars you will see that the claims are totally bogus, so it is not a case of ICE drivers throwing out misinformation, but EV owners attempting to deflect the truth and are actually giving out misinformation themselves. Also there is more information about the burning Nissan Leaf, which highlights even bigger issues with EV's burning, that is wahy they cannot use water on them until the batteries have burnt themselves out, because the toxic is an even bigger problem once it enters into drainage and water system.

Then that also by definition suggests driver error as well as I cannot believe that such issues don't have some physical influence on the way that the vehicle feels when driven.

We don't actually know precisely what caused the fire at this stage, but what we can 100% rule out is the tractor unit caused it or diesel caused the fire as the tractor unit and indeed th BYD that was above the tractor unit were not involved in the fire at the outset as this photo taken at the scene proves, so diesel on this occasion cannot be blamed. I see brakes overheating has put been put forward as a theory, but surely, if the brakes were getting that hot, they would expand even more and jam the trailer brakes full on and stop the lorry altogether? On my diesel Kodiaq, if the hand brake is on, the car will not go anywhere, the same on my Superb wouldn't either.

That is only applicable if you are just doing city driving, but if you have been out on a longer run and did some destination charging when you got there, then on your return trip, something happens on to cause the road to be completely shut and a long detour or a long wait with the heater etc in use, then you could be in a spot of bother. For instance the other day the M5 was completely shut due to a car transporter which had 7 BYD Atos catch fire on it and lengthy diversion routes were in force.

I have been trained as a fire fighter, I was in a factory firefighting team, in a factory which had massive stockpiles of timber, tons of special adhesives, solvents, all kinds of foam sheets, rubber, and simply mases of cardboard as we were producing highly specialised packing crates, cartons and harnesses along with suspensions systems for Marconi Marine, Marconi Radar, Marconi Radio and English Electric Valve Co, all part of the Marconi group who were making all kinds special radio, radar, television and outside broadcast vans, communication equipment and valves for massive transmitters, so yes, we had to be aware of just what was on fire and also access the dangers of other materials becoming involved in said fire. The plain truth is however, that most ICE car fires do not actually involve their fuel, most are caused by electrical faults within the car or smoking etc. and I have witnessed firsthand many ICE fires and petrol does not explode, it is the build-up of fumes that make up a explosion hazard, which is unlikely that will occur.

Thank you for providing some clarity here, but the fire blanket and the need for dragging the car out from where is, is not required for normal ICE vehicles as they can normally be dealt with and extinguished in just a few short moments with just conventional fire hoses.

Regardless whether the heater or whatever started the fire, it is nonetheless a fact that the battery did indeed enter thermal runaway and witnessed by the jets of flame emitted from beneath the car, not the frunk. The real truth here is that it does not matter the fact that it was an EV, but that that the battery was in thermal runaway, at which point normal fire fighter techniques are completely 100% ineffective as no amount of water, foam, CO2 or fire blanket will stop the fire until the battery is fully consumed by it. Upto the point of when the batteries become part of the fire, then the fire is exactly the same as any other car, regardless of its propulsion system. If the car is plugged and charging at the time of the fire, then is possible that the car can be unplugged and moved away from the charger, as was the case in this incident, then it is just the same proceedure as for an normal ICE vehicle. Not all EV cars on fire actually involve the batteries, and is just same for ICE fires, not all of them involve the fuel. I don't see any youtuber or indeed anyone on this forum whinging, that is a misconception that is currently being held by certain existing EV owners who are in complete denial of the real danger that EV vehicles pose. They are worse than an ICE vehicle and that as their numbers grow, such incidents will increase. Then if a battery goes into thermal runaway, near another EV, such as car parks, especially underground or multistorey then the problems just will continue to get worse until an effective method of preventing and or controlling the fire and its impact.

@wyx087 this one is directly 100% related to EV fires, seeing that it is Nissan Leaf that was being charged at the time in a shopping carpark, this the accompanying text of the YouTube video which was all shot by the Colorado fire dept. They were able to position trolleys beneath the back wheels and drag the car away from the charger and surrounding trees, evacuated nearby businesses so as to avoid people getting caught in the toxic fumes. After the battery had burnt itself out, they then doused the car inside to put the internal fire out. Then they dragged it onto a tow truck (not sure why they called it a tow truck, it was a flat bet transporter) and then at that point they deployed the fire blanket over the car while it was being taken to special breakers dealing with EVs. All the equipment that the fire crews had used, tunics etc, all had to be collected, double bagged and taken away to a special decomtamination centre and replaced if it can't be cleaned and made safe for the crews again. None of this is actually required with ICE fires. Here is the text extracted from the video. 85,401 views Oct 2, 2025 #colorado #electricvehicle #littletoncolorado An EV caught fire while charging outside a King Soopers in Littleton, Colorado, on September 28, prompting evacuations as firefighters let the lithium battery blaze burn itself out. The New York Post is your source for breaking news, news about New York, sports, business, entertainment, opinion, real estate, culture, fashion, and more.

@classic yes, I know he does, he has never ever tried to hide the fact that he loves the way that they drive etc, his only gripe is with the state of the charging infrastructure and the problems that early cars are having, believing that the technology is currently not suitable for mass adoption and that it should be left to the market place to decide when it is right to do so. I'm pleased that I introduced you to his channel, I do enjoy it myself, I find him to be a genuine person and quite entertaining, especially when he does challenges with other YouTubers. I'm also pleased that his channel helped you to decide that you also wanted to get an EV, and as I've always said, that if and EV fits your needs and lifestyle, then why not get one, I'm just anti the political push and can see that it be discovered to be the wrong move in a few year's time, much the same as with diesel, they need to be part of the overall mix and are ideal for city dwellers if they can charge them OK. So the upshot of it all, is that the MacMaster is not all a doom and gloom merchant, just a person who calls it as he sees it, highlighting both the good and bad bits of EV ownership.

Yes, that was my point, when they claim that presidents and royalty etc were using cars made by xyz, they were not using standard off the shelf models that the average person can get hold off, there is nothing remotely special about your Scenic, it is just a bog-standard half decent family runabout that just happens to suit your family needs. It is highly debatable that it would suit my needs with 4 of my family being 6ft 4" and 2 of us built like the proverbial brick **** houses and reasonable tall SWMBO. We also need a large boot to lug all the shopping home and to pop in a pair of step ladders at the weekend when we go plane spotting. There are many people like us, who do struggle to find a car that is suitable and affordable without going into the luxury car bracket of the S class etc, which are all far north of the £40,000 figure that is claimed by our authorities as a luxury car. On the Citroen front, yes, the DS when it came out was light years ahead of the competitors and in many ways, it still is. It had the world's finest suspension system, I've driven my old bosses DS23 Pallas on many occasions and it was silky smooth on the road and it was even possible to mount kerbs without any perception of doing so inside the car. The engine as well, although people claim it was lacklustre, at the time it was more than enough when compared to other cars of the era and it is only now noticeable because cars got more powerful over the years.

He said that he really wanted a 911 ICE, but the amount of money it would have cost him to get out of an EV was eye watering. Nottingham Porsche were able to put a deal together if he went for another EV Porsche, he revealed that in an earlier video.

Sorry, but I'm not seeing it, I can understand poorer nations having to use normal family cars from the top model, but France is not one of those countries, it is a wealthy and powerful nation and as such the president should have something a bit more fitting. I mean a 4.7 metre Renault Rafale has no room for the extra security fittings that such a VIP would want to require in today's world. Surely the cars have some special features that set them apart, such as body protection, double glazing, bigger and more powerful engines, partition between the front and rear seats as well as extra legroom in the rear?

Even so, the Scenic is not any more a luxury than a Skoda Superb, or Kodiaq is. What I call a luxury car would be something like a BMW 7 series, Audi A8, Mercedes S Class, and higher cars like Rolls Royce, Aston Martin, Bentley, Range Rovers etc.

That statement alone is sending a massive red signal to anyone with the ability to acknowledge it, since when has a luxury car been valued as low as £40k? I would hardly call a Scenic a luxury car.