Parked my '51 plate Octy VRs at a petrol station today. 

 

When I came back, I had left it in gear (like I seem to do quite often!) and so when I turned the key, she jumped forward slightly, whereupon I immediately released the key. 

 

Took her out of gear, turned the key again and....nothing. Battery is all good (a new Bosch fitted recently) so I know it's nothing to do with that, or the charging system - I recently tested it and it's charging at 14.8v. Plus anyway, I would have noticed a charging / battery fault.

 

I managed to get a chap to help me bump-start the car, and she fired straight away. Drove home, no problems. Parked at the top of my hill by my house turned her off, and tried a re-start.

 

Again, nothing. The warning lights on the dash are all very bright, and don't dim when the key is turned.

 

 

I can't hear a solenoid clicking when I do turn the key, and obviously the starter motor remains still. No attempt to turn. I had a quick look under the bonnet, although it was getting dark, and hit the motor a few times with the end of a wooden bar, in case anything was stuck. No joy at all.

 

So, my 'ready reckoning' of the failure is probably the solenoid - maybe the motor too / instead.

 

 

Normally, I would just replace the unit - however, something is niggling me that the failure happened right after I started her in gear and the motor obviously encountered a resistance to its movement that it shouldn't really have normally, by the car being in gear.

 

 

 

Question is - does anyone know if I might have blown / popped a fuse or safety cutout / circuit by doing this? Before I start tearing starter motors out, I want to make sure I am not missing anything obvious that might happen on these cars first - fuse, wiring fault, that kind of thing.

 

 

 

As always, your help and comments are very much appreciated. I've given out lots of advice on here - time to cash in, lol!!!

 

 

Thanks in advance chaps.

 

 

Has the starter on your vrs been making the common (squeak) noise after it's just started?? I can't think of any fuses that would pop due to starting her in gear? I'd say the solenoid has failed? How hard were you hitting the starter cause you do have to whack them.

Yes, yes it has been making the 'squeak / squeal' noise for about a month now, on and off.

 

But it's strange that now, I don't even hear the solenoid click...

 

 

And don't worry, I've had a few failed motors over the years - and I know how hard one has to '****' them to wake them up! And I've even tried the rocking the car back and forth in gear thing whilst turning the key too earlier - with no success.

If you look at the starter motor, you will see a small wire connected to the solenoid. Put a meter or test lamp on that connection and check your have 12v when someone turns the key. You may even find that that wire has come off.

If you look at the starter motor, you will see a small wire connected to the solenoid. Put a meter or test lamp on that connection and check your have 12v when someone turns the key. You may even find that that wire has come off.

 

Cheers my friend, I will give this a go tomorrow.

 

If not, anyone else got any other ideas??

Grab a meter, volt drop engine earth when cranking, one lead on batt neg, one on starter body. Then as rwbaldwin said, check trigger wire, again volt drop while connected to test under load, one lead on battery pos, one on trigger connection on starter. The meter should read no more than 0.3-0.5v of drop. If the meter reads 12v while doing these tests then you have an open circuit, if the meter reads 1v or more you have a poor connection. If this indicates no fault, amp clamp around batt neg lead, crank the engine, typical starter draw should hover around 80A. If the draw is higher, you have a siezed motor, if the draw is next to nothing then the solenoid is not engaging. Hope this helps. Dale

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One last thing to mention. The tests i mentioned with regards volt drop on the trigger feed, will also indicate a faulty relay or fuse as you will have 12v 'drop' showing on the meter. Going direct to component when testing is the way to go. Pointless messing around with fuses boxes and relays if the starter is getting 12v Dale

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Ok, little update because I know how annoying it is to participate in a thread and then not hear the outcome!

 

Got to the motor today - checked the voltage at the trigger wire, all fine when turning the key - and there was power at the supply lead end too. So must be the motor / solenoid.

 

So, next job was to remove the unit. Not actually a bad job - once the battery tray is removed and a few wires and bits of loom moved out the way, access to the motor is good, and the two main retaining bolts not so bad to remove - just have to get the 18mm socket and ratchet on there, and then put a long extension bar over the ratchet handle to get some leverage to 'crack' the bolts undone.

 

I followed a guide someone had posted about how to remove the unit, which was very helpful. However, I must at this point disagree with the guide - there is actually no need to jack the car up onto axle stands and remove the undertray etc. It can all be done going in from the top, no problem.

 

I reckon I had it out in well under an hour.

 

Anyway, once out, it was clear what the problem was. I don't know who designs these things - but there is an exposed metal 'braid' type cable, without any insulation around it, running from the solenoid to inside the motor unit. There's only about an inch at most of this exposed - but of course, over the 13 years that my car has been on this planet, moisture and corrosion had rendered it buggered.

 

Once I got the motor on the bench, and undid the retaining nut on the solenoid end of the braid, it just basically fell apart like dust. I am amazed that it was actually still working for as long as it had!

 

 

So my initial thoughts were that it might be possible to replace the braid with a proper bit of insulated cable at first. However, once I tried to dismantle the unit, I was already starting to be beaten by rusty, solid torx fasteners holding the solenoid on - and in fact most parts of the entire unit looked horrendously corroded and well stuck together. Coupled with the fact that it had started the dreaded 'squeaking' on starting lately, I quickly realised that it would be the Devil's own job to try and repair, and after a quick quote from Euros at £60 for a new unit, I decided that this was probably the way to go. Not a bad price really.

 

Anyway, thanks so much to the people that posted an tried to help - your comments made my diagnosis process so much easier and more painless. I am very grateful!

 

And with a new motor unit, she lives again to fight another day! We WILL keep these Mk. 1 VRs's on the road FOR EVER!!!

Edited 31 March, 201412 yr by Ray Luxury-Yacht

 

 

And with a new motor unit, she lives again to fight another day! We WILL keep these Mk. 1 VRs's on the road FOR EVER!!!

 

Great news mate well done, you could have just put the new motor on and obviously in this instance, solved the issue. But following a little diagnostic process gives you much more confidence when shelling out your hard earned, and practice with a voltmeter will only help you in the long term.

 

Dale

Great news mate well done, you could have just put the new motor on and obviously in this instance, solved the issue. But following a little diagnostic process gives you much more confidence when shelling out your hard earned, and practice with a voltmeter will only help you in the long term.

 

Dale

 

Thanks matey - and yes, as you say - a new unit would have solved the issue in my case...but without your help on diagnostics, I could well have bought a new unit and then found out that the unit was NOT the fault!

 

It's actually enjoyable and satisfying, systematically checking everything, to be sure of a diagnosis in the end. When I eventually bought my new starter, I was therefore totally confident that I was doing the right thing and not just wasting money indiscriminately...and again, thanks go to you for that!

 

Is another reason why forums like this are totally invaluable!

So, in the spirit of things, and all that, I thought I might post about my new starter motor, two months on.

 

 

When I went to Euros to buy another starter motor, they had 3 brands on offer. RTX was the cheapest at £70, then another brand I forget the make of at £90, then a Bosch unit at £120.

 

Being a student, I plumped for the RTX.

 

I was worried because a Google round found a few horror stories about RTX brand motors being rubbish. Then again, I guess you can find bad stuff on the internet about anything if you look hard enough.

 

 

Anyway once I fitted the RTX, the engine span over at a much higher rate of knots, with way more vigour than the old unit.

 

And 2 months on, the motor continues to operate with great enthusiasm.

 

So, guess I can (so far) recommend the cheaper RTX alternative from Euros, if you're looking at what motor to buy.

Hello guys,

 

Unfortunately have to bump up this topic, because few days ago my Octavia mk1 vRS didn't start. I've checked the battery voltage, it is good. Then checked the solenoid connection. One probe on the battery negative, the other in the cable that goes to the solenoid. I've read little above 12V when turned the key. Then I put back the solenoid cable and moved the probe to the starter body and the positive cable that comes from the battery. Turned the key on and received little above 0.7V drop. 

 

Any recommendations what to check next and what actually is the problem? 

 

Thanks,

Nick