I have an N reg Felicia 1.3 Ltr (LX I think) & have had a persistent cutting out & not starting problem, that has now become a flat out 'will not start' problem.

The battery is fully charged, I get all the correct red ignition lights on the dash, the engine turns over just fine, but there's not so much as a cough or splutter!

I believe that some Felicia's had immobilisers fitted, but can't be sure if mine has one. I suspect it hasn't, as my Key doesn't have any electronics on it, well, no battery anyway.

Obviously, if it does have an immobiliser, it's a possibility as the cause of this mystery. Where would I look for it's actual location? In the engine compartment, or behind the dashboard?

If it doesn't have one fitted, then I'm back to suspecting the ECU &/or one of it's many sensors.

In my Haynes, it says on no account to disconnect the ECU, as it's coded to the car. Does that mean that I can't just buy another ECU for it then? 

Desperately hoping for some help with this.

Thanks.

There are quite a few misconceptions in your message. Let's clear them out before anyone takes them as valid observations.

• The ignition key doesn't need a battery for the transponder chip inside. Only car alarms need a battery.
• You don't start a no-start repair by changing the ECU. As a matter of fact you replace the ECU last.
• You don't suspect the immobilizer unless the engine starts then dies in 1-2 seconds
• The immobilizer (if fitted) is located behind the instrument cluster. It is easier to check if around ignition contact there is a coil ring with a cable attached.

Now, a few questions.

What type of engine has your car? 135B, 136B, 135M or 136M ? See car registration documents.

How would you rate your engine diagnosis skills? Do you know how to diagnose for spark or fuel?

Do you want to skip finding the evidence of malfunction and jump directly to most common faults?

As above, there is a plethora of possibilities that could be wrong so starting with the basics is the best bet. If you don't have any idea what your doing then just get a garage to take it away and sort it for you.

 

 

 

• The ignition key doesn't need a battery for the transponder chip inside. Only car alarms need a battery.

 

You can still have an alarm without a remote key

You can still have an alarm without a remote key

Yeah, but it's not applicable to Felicia. We are taking Felicia here.

I think ,you will find that most felicia had some form of immobiliser fitted. At one stage, my daughter had an R reg Felicia ,which had one fitted, and dependant on age, might be Thatcham 1 or 2. Something that MOST insurance companies/Brokers didn't know.

I think ,you will find that most felicia had some form of immobiliser fitted. At one stage, my daughter had an R reg Felicia ,which had one fitted, and dependant on age, might be Thatcham 1 or 2.

Just for the sake of correct information, not most Felicias had "some form" (?) of immobiliser fitted from factory. Only about half of them, those marketed as GLX models. Furthermore, no Thatcham immobiliser was ever fitted on Felicia. VAG Group is German and they chose Siemens to do business with.

Ricardo- my information was from Skoda UK,who I'd suggest SHOULD know. Early ones had ( in UK) Thatham 1, and later models depending on chassis no had Thatcham 2. Possibly overseas models differed, I know not, but if Skoda say Thatcham 1 or 2 was fitted, that is good enough for me.

IIRC all vehicles sold in the UK since 1995 have to have an immobiliser fitted by law. As an N reg, yours should have. Unless it sat around before registration.

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Every UK felicia has a transponder chip in the key regardless of if it is a glxi or a L.

But a non Start could be anything from fuel pump not running to the timing chain wearing out and jumping.

Ricardo- my information was from Skoda UK,who I'd suggest SHOULD know.

Could you please share the link to that information? I would like to see why a Siemens immobiliser was not good enough to match a Siemens ECU...

Edited 17 February, 201610 yr by RicardoM

But a non Start could be anything from fuel pump not running to the timing chain wearing out and jumping.

 

Yesterday I was reluctant to share any probable cause of the no-start.

Do you want to skip finding the evidence of malfunction and jump directly to most common faults?

Based on his information about the fault and on his unjustified hasty suspicions (replace ECU and immobilizer) I realized his diagnosing skills are poor. Listing common problems (like fuel pump or crankshaft sensor) would have made him order new parts instantly. I hope that one day people will learn to diagnose first then buy parts based on evidence. There are enough "part-changer" mechanics. A DIYer should already know that and avoid having the same expensive habit.

Edited 17 February, 201610 yr by RicardoM

OK, firstly, sorry for late response, but I don't get any e-mails telling me someone has responded & I've been busy.

Secondly, I've been servicing my own motors since I was first on the road & I'm perfectly competent on most pre-computer models. Hell, I even build my own computers from components, so I know that software is a nightmare & will often prevent very simple processes happening. Programming I don't know.

As to my hastily ill diagnosed problems, apologies if it came across that way, I meant to posit potential possible suspicions only. As these threads don't seem to be linked, you probably don't realise that I've had a persistent cutting out problem & posted on this forum before about it. From what you say, it's unlikely to have been due to the immobiliser, as it would usually run fine for many miles, though it was so random that it would sometimes cut out several times over a 20ml trip & sometimes not at all.  Having followed previous advice from here, I've been able to eliminate various possible culprits, plus I've replaced plugs, distributor, fuel filter etc in previous efforts to fix this. Also, I've been to my local garage, where they put it on the diagnostic tool, only to find nothing wrong & no stored crash/problem reports. I do know I'm getting sparks at plugs, so that's out. When I changed the fuel filter, there was definitely pressure in the system, so the pump was working then & there's no obvious visual signs of it having failed. As to the potential immobiliser, I reckon it hasn't got one because when I had the steering column out to check the ignition switch & connections, there was no obvious electrically connected ring around it.

As to the engine type, there's no obvious reference to any of those quoted figures on my reg doc. I do have both the chassis & engine numbers listed under vehicle details, but they're both considerably longer numbers, neither of which contain those quoted numbers. The nearest equivalent might be the last digits of the engine number, which would be 125B.

It is an LX according to the reg doc.

If any further info is required, I can provide it.

Thanks for your interest & help so far. 

Just for the sake of correct information, not most Felicias had "some form" (?) of immobiliser fitted from factory. Only about half of them, those marketed as GLX models. Furthermore, no Thatcham immobiliser was ever fitted on Felicia. VAG Group is German and they chose Siemens to do business with.

Sorry Ricardo, but that's complete nonsense.

 

Firstly, Thatcham is not a manufacturer but a certification on vehicle security equipment issued by the UK Motor Insurance Repair Research Centre.

Secondly, as others, pretty much every UK car manufactured from 1995 had an immobiliser (Thatcham category 2) as standard. Unless it was very old stock, an N prefix car would have one irrespective of trim level.

Firstly, Thatcham is not a manufacturer but a certification on vehicle security equipment issued by the UK Motor Insurance Repair Research Centre.

I didn't know they are bureaucrats (I'm only human and not Briton, which could be complete nonsense indeed ). I assumed that Thatcham is a manufacturer because RetroRunner was looking for hints about the location of the immobiliser. A manufacturer label could have helped him.

 

Secondly, as others, pretty much every UK car manufactured from 1995 had an immobiliser (Thatcham category 2) as standard. Unless it was very old stock, an N prefix car would have one irrespective of trim level.

It looks like RetroRunner has just said his car hasn't got one, so...

Furthermore, on Felicia Owner's Manual (Czech edition) the immobiliser is marked with * along with other extra options for GLX trim level.

 

RetroRunner

You have mentioned that you can assemble a computer and you can service any old school car That is very good news. It is easier to help somebody who knows how to use a multimeter. As I said many times on previous occasions, random cutouts are harder to diagnose. Not being simple to replicate the symptom, means you must be prepared to gather useful data when the engine dies.

 

The most common causes (and solutions immediately after a cutout) for intermittent cutouts are:

1. bad wiring from age, corrosion (wiggle / tug on wires, check all connectors, spray WD40 in them)
2. old, 'dying' fuel pump (listen for pump buzzing when key on, bang on the fuel tank to see if that helps restarting)
3. old, 'dying' crankshaft sensor (measure for alternative voltage at its terminals when cranking)
4. old or faulty battery (measure the voltage on battery)

About not being notified by email of new replies: check you personal settings, it looks like instant email notification is no more set to on by default.

Before I bought my 1995 Favorit LXiE [mechanically identical to the SPi Felicia] I took on the job of diagnosing and repairing it's problem of the engine randomly cutting out without warning for the previous owner. There was no particular pattern, it didn't matter if the engine was cold, warm or hot. If after cutting out I tried to diagnose anything the engine would start! Very frustrating!

 

The problem was cured after various checks of the ignition and fuel system by replacing the fuel pump [located in the tank with the gauge sender unit].

As to the engine type, there's no obvious reference to any of those quoted figures on my reg doc. I do have both the chassis & engine numbers listed under vehicle details, but they're both considerably longer numbers, neither of which contain those quoted numbers. The nearest equivalent might be the last digits of the engine number, which would be 125B

The engine serial number -1- and the engine identification code -2- is stamped on the cylinder block

behind the distributor (if fitted). The engine identification consists of two parts which are separated by a dot mark.

Example: 781 . 135 B

♦ 781 = Model No. (fixed)

♦ 135 B = 40 kW engine with Mono-Motronic

 

Edited 20 February, 201610 yr by RicardoM

Could you please share the link to that information? I would like to see why a Siemens immobiliser was not good enough to match a Siemens ECU...

It would be a bosch ech on that tho wouldn't it?.

The immobiliser will let the engine start and run for 3 seconds before cutting it out and would not make the engine cut out once it was running.

Could you please share the link to that information? I would like to see why a Siemens immobiliser was not good enough to match a Siemens ECU...

It would be a bosch ech on that tho wouldn't it?.

The immobiliser will let the engine start and run for 3 seconds before cutting it out and would not make the engine cut out once it was running.

It would be a bosch ech on that tho wouldn't it?.

What "bosch ech" are you talking about?

The immobiliser will let the engine start and run for 3 seconds before cutting it out and would not make the engine cut out once it was running.

I know that and I've already said that. What is your point?

For reference the favorite ecu with no immobiliser in it will fit and work on the spi fellys you just have to file a locating lug out of the socket.

I'm thinking crank sensor on a whim but easy enough to start with the basics. Does it have a spark when cranking ?

Bosch monomotronic ecu.

We have not yet confirmation if his car is SPi or MPi.

It's "n" reg which in this country means it is 1994. So yes we do have that information.

It's "n" reg which in this country means it is 1994. So yes we do have that information.

Wouldn't N have been August 1995 onwards?

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It's "n" reg which in this country means it is 1994. So yes we do have that information.

You mean this?