Still getting used to driving an oil burner, one of the major differences is this short shifting malarkey. Due to the narrow power band im obviously having to change up quicker, whereas in my old 206 gti i could hang on satisfyingly in 3rd all the way to 6000rpm.

What i want to know is, is there an optimum change point in revs for each gear to get the maximum acceleration? or do i simply hang on till 4000rpm each time? Im not used to the characteristics of this car yet, so please excuse me if this is a stupid question.

I just tend to go by the seat of my pants. If I feel the cars torque dropping off I change up or down depending what I'm doing. Peak power on the PD130 is about 3.7K I think.

I found the VRS quite difficult to drive at first, and is different to other cars I have have driven, I thought the gearbox was quite stiff and revs drop so fast, it was hard to get it smooth but I am just used to it now though, just do it automatically now:D practice makes perfect!

Thought it was me at first being such a crap driver:rofl:

Peak power is exactly 4000rpm. Now you don't change at exactly that but soon after - last time this came up we consulted power curves and decided that optimum was about 4250-4300.

Rubbish

Ideally you want to change up so that the next gear is right at the peak of the torque curve so you get maximum acceleration - however from any revs beyond that the acceleration will drop I found that there was little need ever to rev beyond 3k just let the torque do all the talking.

Let those VTS CTR etc all revving the nuts off their cars trying to get past you while you waft along with sub 2k on the rev counter easily keeping up/passing them. Much more satisfying + the more you rev it it makes it clear to the opponent your having to try so hard to keep up if its really low revs then quiet and still showing him your skirts.

You get max acceleration at peak POWER not peak torque. The torque just gives you a shove so it feels fast.

Trust me

Edit: BTW, starting a post with the word 'Rubbish' then proceeding to spout absolute crap is likely to make you look a ****.

You get max acceleration at peak POWER not peak torque. The torque just gives you a shove so it feels fast.

Trust me

Edit: BTW, starting a post with the word 'Rubbish' then proceeding to spout absolute crap is likely to make you look a ****.

No you do not - trust me.

Also call me a **** again

Torque = rotary force - ie it is the force with which you can turn the wheels, basically how hard, not how fast. Power is the rate at which said wheels can be turned. Either without the other is useless but it is the application of max power that results in max acceleration.

Edit: This link (albeit for bikes and Chevys) explains it pretty well: - Ford Mustang Performance from Modular Depot

Hi, just had to add my 2p's worth:- Clearly Welshy you've never driven a CTR, because you'd get your **** spanked trying to race one in a VRS ( I owned a CTR for 2 years and swapped to the VRS because it's saving me about

Thanks fluffy.

And on the back of that the CTR's max torque is considerably less than the vRS's max torque yet it is faster. If peak torque is the major factor in acceleration how is this possible?

Edit: The second section on here is great: Horsepower vs torque

peak torque on N/A petrol cars can be low say 3k - 4k revs lets say (i know it's low don't quote me on the figures i aint clued up) so if it was a petrol car then you wouldn't change gear at 3-4k rpm would you? you would rev to the peak power high up the rev range.

so you would do the same in a diesel, same power different method of getting the power!!!???

now coming from me (knowing bog all about power and torque etc) then changing gear is best to be done at peak power..maybe..... maybe not, but thats how I understand it.

don't they make gears ratios so that they works best when changed at peak power? you know overlapping the ratios to hit the next gear at the best rev range? or is that more performance car stuff

(notice I didn't say "your completely wrong" when starting the post I kind of look better for it:rofl: )

Late change, higher rev's, more acceleration normally.. isnt it?

As with Auroran (and yourself - as a newbie) I go off the 'seat of my pants'.

You get to know instinctively when - the power is about to tail off and the point at which the surge is maintained - on change up i.e. the engine doesn't bog down or struggle in any way.

I've not checked at what revs this happens (for a particular gear) - as yet + it is all happening rather more quickly compared to my old old Cavalier TD.

peak torque on N/A petrol cars can be low say 3k - 4k revs lets say (i know it's low don't quote me on the figures i aint clued up) so if it was a petrol car then you wouldn't change gear at 3-4k rpm would you? you would rev to the peak power high up the rev range.

The difference is that n/a petrol cars generaly have a somewhat different ratio between torque and bhp, when compared to turbo diesel cars. For example if a 2ltr petrol car has 130bhp, then it will probably have around 130lb/ft torque. A diesel equiverlant will have much much more torque.

No you do not - trust me.

Also call me a **** again

****?

Let those VTS CTR etc all revving the nuts off their cars trying to get past you while you waft along with sub 2k on the rev counter easily keeping up/passing them.

^^

B@LL@CKS

A standard VTS will drive by a standard fabia all day long, you'd need a remap to match one.

Also as others have mentioned, a CTR will absolutely anhilate a standard Fabia and even a remapped Fabia will still loose 2-3 lenghts up to a ton.

BTW, Both circumstances I was revving the engine to 4k as this is the best

I have tried both scenario's in both standard form and remapped form and the best acceleration as confirmed by Jabba and JBS is to rev from circa 2000-4000.

When you change at 4,000 the gear up will already be at 2,500 and the turbo will be spinning nicely

Modern diesels seem to love to be revved and the ones I've owned (albeit chipped) will pull up to the red line with ease. You can feels where they start running out of puff, and that's a good change point, imho.

Changing at peak torque will seriously harm your acceleration because you lose momentum. The feeling of "shove" is the car getting the momentum back, so while it feels fast, it actually isn't. You'll also put a lot of uneccesary strain on your DMF, etc which isn't a good thing

Saying that, I know what you mean about hanging onto 3rd gear in a petrol car and it's something I miss in a diesel :(

Chris

Also call me a **** again

I didn't call you a ****. I said your actions made you look like a ****. Very different - I don't know you to call you anything, nor would I call you names if I did. Just a bit of courtesy required when replying to posts, rather than starting with one word refutes that have since been proven incorrect.

I'm sure you're a lovely fellow in real life (as indeed are all the Briskodians I've met), don't take offense, just think about how you word your posts please.

Saying that, I know what you mean about hanging onto 3rd gear in a petrol car and it's something I miss in a diesel :(

Chris

I find 3rd or 4th is still good for some fun.

I think what's missing is the spine tingler from the exhaust you get on well engineered high revving petrol engines.

Regarding the torque/BHP/revs thing, most rapid progress is made by changing gear slightly after peak power so that you drop into a nice fat part of the power curve in the next gear. I can't quite explain it simply but you look at the shape of the curve and pick your change points based on how smoothly power builds and how quickly it tails off.

It's torque at the wheels that determines how much twist is available at any moment in time. Flooring it in 3rd gear at 3.5K will mean there's more T@W available than flooring it at lower revs in 4th.

I was looking for the gear ratios so I could provide real-world numbers but I can't find them at the moment :(

J.