wyx087

For the car to soak up any excess solar, you'll need 2 things: - Excess to be greater than around ~1.6kW (Zappi minimum, something to do with EV onboard charger needing a minimum current) - A charger that is capable of automatically starting and stopping charge. - Ideally, the charger will also vary charge rate depend on your excess, tracking solar production. The popular charger that does this today is Zappi. The geek choice is OpenEVSE, where it integrates with OpenEnergyMonitor and Home Assistant (energy monitoring and home automation of my choice). There is probably others I'm not aware of. BT Pulse vs Podpoint are much of a muchness, they can't automatically divert from solar excess. Go with one that fits your surrounding aesthetics. I've got a Podpoint and doesn't have any issue with it. I got it in 2017 for a grand total of £99. 3.6kW was free with £500 from OLEV and rest from Nissan. I paid for upgrade to 7kW to be more future proof, despite my EV can only take 3.3kW.

I agree for free stuff would never last. End of the day, it's much easier to just charge at home overnight and get ~3p per mile. Since COVID, my mileage (Sep 2020 to Sep 2021) in Skoda diesel have dropped from 8k to just 2k. While between MOT mileage in Leaf only dropped slightly from 8k down to 6k. This 6k less diesel miles have saved me about £600 in fuel alone. Unlike fossil fuel, batteries are not single use. They are made with embedded carbon footprint today, but after life in EV, they would be re-used as stationary storage. After they have completely exhausted their usefulness in 20 years time, they can be recycled. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. In this order, for everything. Reduce desired mileage requirement in EV's and demand higher efficiency for more miles instead. Reuse battery after their life in vehicles, finally recycle it.

Do you think 7 years old is an age where batteries need replacing for first generation Nissan Leaf? It's about half the expected lifespan of a regular car, 15 years. I have a 2014 first-gen Leaf, it's still giving me more than 80% of its charging capacity. As long as the range is more than my wife's daily needs, I don't see any reason why it need to be replaced. Value of first generation EV will always be higher than similar age comparable cars for they rarer whilst tax and regulations close in on the more polluting ones. "The batteries will out last the car." is the general coconscious from those with more knowledge than me. https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero-stories/what-happens-old-electric-car-batteries

Free never works, it's completely open to abuse. I agree those kind of penalty is needed at some placed..... But one has to remember slower chargers (not 40+kW rapid chargers) are meant for car parks. It doesn't make a lot of sense for people to drop what they are doing and move their car a few spaces down the car park, it's an unnecessary added complication for EV ownership. Our workplace have this problem with 4 charging spaces and about 10 cars needing to charge. The solution is always to get more charger installed (we are getting ~30 soon). So I think: - Rapid chargers should be time based fee, so people would learn about their vehicle charging curve and hopefully have quick turnarounds. These are the mid-journey petrol pumps, charge and move asap. Idle penalty fees here need to be huge, akin to parking tickets. - Destination slow chargers can be either time or usage based, as long as it's not free. Time based for higher utilised locations to encourage people to move on (supermarket, gyms), usage based for long periods cars parks (workplace, flats).

I think Ken is more concerned about the limited energy stored in the battery......

I've been saying this for so long, consistently. EV as daily driver, it is no question it's a far better car, as long as you can charge at home. EV as long range car, it depends entirely on quality and quantity of the rapid charging network. Until we can blanket half the motorway services with mid-journey rapid chargers. Until we can guarantee a rapid charger the moment we park at service area car park....... We should focus on making EV accessible for everyone by blanket install flat parking spots and workplace with destination chargers. Then to drive long distance, just need to hire a compatible range extender of some sort for your chosen car. See my post in first page. Get everyone used to plugged in, get everyone's 80-90% usage (daily drives) off fossil fuel first.

As I said in the post, the para you've chosen to crop out, mid-journey charging is still an issue. Double so when there's only 2 working chargers and they are both occupied (or one is broken and there's a queue, I've been there) But 99.5% of my uses in my EV, I charge at home or workplace and it's vastly quicker/easier/cheaper than going to petrol station. Other 0.5% is when I miscalculated and have to suffer the public infrastructure. For long journeys, I'd still use the diesel Octy for the same reason you've stated.

3-pin is 10 amps, so using 0.45 kW to run electrics is not unusual. Sure it can be more optimised, but 0.3-0.5 kW is the usual power draw I see shown as "other" when driving normally. In Leaf there's 3 figures showing traction power, then there's climate power and finally "other". You stand next to the vehicle for those few minutes, holding the nozzle. I don't think anyone would stand next to their EV while it is slow charging, everyone would spend seconds to plug in and then go get on with their lives. So from minutes to seconds is a hugely positive step in my book. Mid-journey recharging is an issue, but that is due to lack of infrastructure rather than the technology inside today's cars.

Not sure, might be powering the electronics that manages charging? That's like a base-load that is constant and proportionally smaller at 7kW. For rapid charging, the loss would be heat loss. Bjorn EV youtube channel talks about this a lot. It's where a percentage of power is lost as heat from battery's internal resistance. I think I've read somewhere that the most efficient charge rate is 7-11kW. Minimum heat loss.

That's 8 fuel pumps for all 1000 vehicles. While the 4 public charger only need to service estimate of ~167 vehicles (1 in 6 stat from skomaz posted earlier).

The beauty with EV is that you are not tied to public infrastructure. If you can get a home charger, you can drive an EV and never really think about local public charging infrastructure. eg. I know there are chargers near my home from maps, but I've never really visited any of them because I do all my charging at home. As long as the car can roll up the driveway with its own power at end of the day, local public chargers doesn't matter to me.

After 4 years with EV, I don't think range anxiety is a thing once you get to know the capabilities of your car. But public charger anxiety is real: is there one working, is there one available, have I got the right app, etc. So I agree, an ICE car is still needed for longer journeys just because EV efficiency drops at high speed and the poor public charging infrastructure. Everything else about EV ownership is brilliant. I think range extended (via ICE or other means) EV make a LOT of sense. As transitional vehicles while the infrastructure catches up. (NOT PHEV's, it has to require plug-in and has to be electric motor driven only to make sure the car is used as EV majority of the time) Eg. a 50kWh EV would cover vast majority of most people's daily needs, giving 150-200 miles real world range. A small 15kW range extender would allow hours of driving at motorway speeds making charging mid-journey a thing of past just like driving 600+ miles diesel. (it allows 10 hours driving at average speed of 65mph => 650 miles) Key thing is to change people's perception of needing hundreds of miles of range. You only need enough to cover daily requirement (also build millions of overnight chargers anywhere people park their cars overnight). It's pointless to switch to EV and carry around 100kWh of heavy batteries, due to the massive embedded carbon built into the batteries and the inefficiencies from the added weight. High speed efficiency is king, adding bigger and bigger batteries to SUV-bricks does not sufficiently reduce our climate impact.

The best part is the subscription in Netherlands is currently a rolling subscription, no locked in contract. So it is possible to sign up the day before a road trip, enjoy the network and then cancel after a month.

Wut? Carbon capture?

The beauty of battery (and heat pump where your house/water tank is your energy storage) is that it should never need to operate during peak time. Tesla says servicing is "not required", then goes to list a few recommended items. So it's not zero but it can be zero. https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/support/car-maintenance Whereas if you don't service an ICE car, not only engine problems, there's also no more warranty cover. Unlike petrol/diesel engine, an old EV battery is still viable to be re-used as stationary storage. There will not be enough battery production in the next 30+ years, re-used battery will be normal. The same generational leap has already happened with today's 300 miles 100kW charging EV vs first generation 90 miles 50kW charging Leaf. But as I pointed out, Leaf residual values are holding better than similar condition Focus/Golf. It is easy to buy a 3-pin "granny" charger and plug into an unmetered external 3-pin. It is also super easy to get a 32 amp commando socket installed and buy matching portable charger to charge the car at 7kW. I live in a close, how the car is connected is not visible from the closed road, how can such restrictions on home charging be enforced?

Absolutely agree. I love idea of idle fees for rapids, and I think they should kick in sooner, like from 80% and charging rate slows below 10kW. But in the above case, was there AC chargers nearby? They need to be built alongside rapid chargers. I also think rapid chargers' interface are not doing enough to educate people. We are past the early adopter phase, many new EV drivers won't bother learning about difference between rapid and destination. More importantly need to educate people about the rapid charging speed tapering characteristics.

Retained value of EV will always be higher. See my earlier post. But in my above worked example, it is assumed both cars are kept for 15 years 150k miles with zero resale value afterwards. Fuel duty would never change for home charging, it is impossible to implement and enforce. This should be over 80% of how most people will charge anyway. I can see rapid charging being heavily taxed. But it wouldn't change the calculation much because above line. I can also see mileage based tax, but this would apply across the all cars. There is no way any government would only apply this to EV's in today's climate (pun intended) Cost of financing and deposit = vehicle cost? Of course, higher finance amount will mean higher interest payment. So it is understandable some people are put off by higher initial cost. But at the same time, I see MG5 estate EV is only asking from £199 per month in my company's salary sacrifice lease scheme while Octavia estate is from £216....... So back on topic, perhaps leasing an EV makes financial sense for OP as lease companies build in the retained value thus offer more comparative rates?

All that matter is the total cost of ownership, which is cheaper on EV. If you divide the cost of vehicle down to monthly costs there is no difference in cost. eg. I have money in the bank/shares, the cost of car purchase essentially means how much additional money I put away each month to replenish money spent. End of the month, despite EV being more expensive to purchase, it is cheaper to own. Also, Skoda Octavia SE-L trim starts at £25.8k. Broker prices are prices to get you to phone up. If you really want comparable car, SE-L doesn't have auto-steer or leather-like seats or giant infotainment screen or built-in google maps for nav or app climate control.

Zoe can charge quickly on AC. If rapid charger can provide simultaneous DC/AC charging, it wouldn't be a supply problem. So it would be easy (and IMO make a lot more sense) to put in a 3-phase 22kW AC post next to the rapid for Zoe and those drivers who don't want to move their car when finished charging.

Unfortunately if you want to own a car outright, £30k seems to be minimum to dump on an EV with your kind of requirement. If you are willing to loosen your requirement a bit, going into EV to satisfy 80% of your motoring needs and keep your current car for the other 20% longer drives. A whole world of second hand Leaf/Zoe becomes excellent purchase. If you can wait 3-5 years for current-gen EV to become common in second hand market, coming off leases. That is the best way to own EV's, let other people take the initial hit of depreciation. I feel it would be the other way. There is a supply bottleneck for batteries. Even if they can make 600 miles range that recharges in 5min, today's EV would still demand a price premium over today's fossil fuelled cars that is mass produced. Just look at price of Leaf vs similar mileage Golf. Over the lifetime of vehicle, EV actually make a huge amount of sense. £26k for a diesel would get ~55mpg meaning 11p per mile at £1.30 per litre cost + £150 per year service + £500 every 4 years for timing belt + £200 every 40k for DSG oil change => 26k + 16.5k + 2.3k + 1.5k + 0.8k = £47.5k to cover 150k miles over 15 years. £42k for a Tesla model 3 SR+ will get £2.5p per mile at off-peak leccy prices + £0 service requirement => £42k + £4k = £46k to cover same miles over same years.

Unfortunately this is the current state of things. The proper way to go about charging hasn't settled yet. The Kia driver thought they were using slow AC destination charging (think car park) so it's okay to leave the car parked long term, but actually the charger is a rapid charger (think petrol pumps). I think the best way to avoid this is to remove the Type 2 heads on rapid chargers, install AC destination charging posts nearby and set a minimum charging speed of 12kW. Slower than this a message will appear "please vacate this rapid charger and use nearby AC charging posts".

Unfortunately no best way currently. For us, back in 2017, I found the best way was to buy second hand as first-gen EV came off lease. Very cheap EV as poor public perception meant demand wasn't there. Now, second hand is out of the question. So I would only consider a straight out purchase. I'm currently waiting for Berlin built Model Y 7-seater.

What's to stop me using a regular unmetered 3-pin to charge my EV, on my un-lit driveway with black cables, in a quiet closed road? I have a twin 3-pin socket, with 40A armoured cable installed next to the EV charger near my driveway. Mainly for lawn mower and heating up my fossil car, but it's perfectly situated to easily get around any home charging targeted tax. When parked and plugged in, the setup is not visible from the closed road.

Cut away the cable locking mechanism if you are not worried about people unplugging you: https://www.speakev.com/threads/anti-locking-a-type-2-cable.142659/#post-2690415 Looking at grid, there is ALWAYS surplus electricity overnight: https://grid.iamkate.com/ So the answer is yes, there will always be cheaper off-peak deals. I'm at price cap on E7 with 13p off peak and 20p other times. Regional average price is ~19p. How could they implement taxation of home charging. Have a think, how do you police that? Only way to tax home charging is to tax all home electric usage, which wouldn't happen until home gas heating has become abnormal or more tax is put on gas so that electricity heating becomes price competitive pushing towards zero combustion home heating. Rapid charging tax is totally feasible, and/or per-mile tax for all cars (meaning home charged EV is still cheaper to run). Knowing I can plug-in at both ends, I'd simply drive like the wind, often faster than my diesel. Because the proportional cost increase for the cheaper EV miles mean absolute cost increase is minuscule. Even better when workplace charger is free.