Lady Elanore
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Posts posted by Lady Elanore
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1 hour ago, Ootohere said:
There are Apps that might tell you in advance and be accurate.
Some very much better than others, but that still can not be relied on if you want to risk it for a biscuit and run to near no range.
Once you have been at facilities and have gained some knowledge you might be more confident on what you are about to encounter at that location.
There are vehicles and phones that work better than others for info, and there are still crap Phone Reception areas, and that is also an issue with Chargers & SIM cards and Communications. Even phone reception to a 'Support call centre'.
Unbelievable but Mobile Phone Reception at Edinburgh Airport park and ride can be pathetic as was CPS / SWARCO in Broughty Ferry's communication with the chargers.
I've been thinking quite a bit about the charge anxiety thing and came up with this (probably not original and rather obvious to boot).
If you always fill up your ICE car at your local petrol station (assuming it is not a price rip off) then you probably can easily cope swapping to EV and home charging. If you fill up more at other stations (I reckon I fill up 1/3 at home and 2/3s on the road) then you probably won't make much fuel saving in costs and recharging is something that might well be more than a little inconvenient.
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Sadly, one of the main reasons the Taycan is deprecating so much is due to Porsche not buying back used cars. The market is flooding with them, thanks to Porsche pushing new EVs over everything else in order to hit emissions targets and carry on selling their true love of ICE cars. Plus there is always things like a near £50K replacement charge if you damage your battery casing etc, which makes people nervous (expensive, even though the Porsche battery is designed to be relatively easily changed ). The model I am familiar with has the big battery which means you get more power available
(the two speed gearbox at the back is interesting) and although it is fractionally down on power and ultimate capacity on the latest version, there isn't much in it. The Taycan power output figures are very complicated, although I think they are streamlining the battery /motor options these days since the update, so it is becoming a little clearer.
During one of his many recalls, my friend has had a loner of the latest version and he didn't really notice much difference. He has, however, also had a Panamera for a couple of days and found he preferred his Taycan. I should add he is a petrol head and his heart is and always will be, with petrol cars. One interesting thing was, he used to live with a woman who also had an EV and charging, as they are both high mileage drivers, was a bit of a pain for them. It isn't something I considered until recently when I noticed that one of the households in my road now has 2 EVs. Hadn't really thought about the potential issues on that front until then. Luckily they both work relatively locally so they can cope.
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6 hours ago, wyx087 said:
Me too. It makes perfect sense. It has capable for bigger battery and works well as proper EV. With ICE for people who need the assurance of range.
Wow, that's a great improvement. 24 miles EV only range, but using just 10% of that could improve ~10 MPG giving 20 miles additional range on a 42 litre tank. Is that right?
'Realistic' motorway speeds also very efficient in a good EV
(Newark supercharger to Welwyn garden city, including 5~10min off motorway each end)
Translates to 320 miles range at 'realistic' motorway speeds.
What I was trying to imply was that 24 miles EV power (and that is a max and only achievable in warmer weather and lower speeds, ie around town and in heavy traffic), was around 10% of my 240 miles journey. The petrol range on the car is significantly better than the 240 miles, obviously.
I think the big overall improvement to mpg comes not from straight forward EV mileage addition, but the EV assist to accelerating from a standstill, low speed creeping and a bit of regen in stop start. If the trip was 239 miles of motorway and 1/2 a mile of stop start at the beginning adn the end, then the overall mpg would be much less I assume. Although when you lift off (in regen mode) on the motorway, at say 70mph, the next time you press the throttle at say 60mph, the car accelerates in EV mode initially, even if there is no indicated charge in the battery.
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This is interesting-ish
I only have experience of travelling and driving one of these cars over a great distance and it makes me think that, whilst not exactly hyper-miling, they were driving frugally. My experience in a Taycan with the big battery is perhaps 220-240 mile in normal conditions and with all the necessary creature comforts turned on. Well it is a Porsche
I'd obviously go for the Porsche followed by the Polestar....if I had to.
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4 minutes ago, wyx087 said:
As I said, the key with PHEV is regularly plugging it in. Although I didn't realise fully charged can hugely improve ICE efficiency, not just about EV range. Thanks for pointing that out.
There ought to comparisons of PHEV to '99 style hybrids.
Here is one, didn't say how charged is the PHEV
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a46414049/toyota-prius-vs-prius-prime-test-results/
Another one reporting on other studies, where if not plugged in, bad economy:
Advise in Which more or less lines up what I've said: PHEV is for driveway-owners, much be able to charge regularly to get the benefits.
Driving at 'realistic' motorway speeds (I don't hang around), my PHEV does around 38mpg on pure petrol and maybe 45-50mpg with Hybrid Sat Nav mode engaged (it's not an actual mode, but you get my drift). If you consider that the real world range on battery alone in stop start traffic could be as high as 24 miles per full charge, you would think that it would give, roughly, a 10% help to a 240 mile trip. But the reality is, you get more like a 30+% lift. These are rough figures as it depends on the route used and average speed undertaken. The 3008 I have only has a 42 litre tank, so it's worth doing before I set off on a long trip.
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6 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:
can you not set the car to never let the battery drop below a certain percentage in the settings?
So when charging is not available the engine does it.
Yes, the car has three levels of charge you can set (it can hammer your fuel economy though). I've updated my post where I mentioned the bare-bones engine recharge bit.
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1 hour ago, wyx087 said:
....... Because PHEV absolutely MUST be plugged in almost every day with only 30 miles electric range. Your daily driving profile must fit that 30 miles range. Otherwise you wouldn't get the cost saving benefits.
Actually, this is a common misconception.
If I travel to London for instance, a journey I take several times a year and approximately 240 miles (I do it in one non-stop trip of course). I can increase my fuel efficiency by many mpg if I fully charge my PHEV first and - this is the important bit - use the Sat Nav. This enables the car to meter out the charge to maximise its efficiency. Cruising on a motorway is a weak point for EVs, whereas in heavy traffic, it plays to their strengths. My PHEV can keep some charge available for when I get to London, for instance. It works well and the car usually depletes its charge with a mile or two of my destination. Without using the Sat Nav the car tends to use the charge at the beginning and also on the motorway, which means you drag around all that ruddy extra battery weight for no benefit. Once in London I'm generally screwed, as they say, as charging becomes a nightmare and is generally not feasible, so the return trip is done in pure petrol mode. I've explained the scenario before, so won't bore with my life story on this matter, again.
PHEVS are the most complicated of all cars and you have to give them as much information as possible, if you want to maximise their efficiency. I would never buy a secondhand one, they are far too complex. For instance, my car can run with ..
- Front EV motor
- Rear EV Motor
- Front and rear EV Motors combined
- Petrol engine
- Petrol engine and front EV motor
- Petrol engine and rear EV motor
- Petrol engine and both EV Motors
it can recharge from...
- Type 2/mains supply
- Front EV motor
- Rear EV motor
- Brake regen using a combination of the above
- or the petrol engine can recharge as you drive (you can set for 3 different levels of total charge).
It can run in
- 'Pure electric',
- Pure petrol
- 'Hybrid' combination
- 'Sport' where ever thing can run simultaneously
- '4x4' where the electric motors run almost all the time and the petrol occasionally helps out.
Nuts! Dread to think the problems some poor sod will have with this car in 10 years time.
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6 hours ago, wyx087 said:It is true that EV used to have a small premium in purchasing price. That is no longer the case depend on vehicle and will soon be the reverse.
EV are a LOT cheaper to run when charge at home, hence my driveway comment.
Most people don't drive mega miles daily, so EV would not inconvenience most people's daily lives. It would actually be an improvement not having to think about refuelling during daily use.
Apart from the social divide on having a driveway, which is not a big one. What other factors made you comment on "financially secure" aspect? To me, it feels like a very strange comment built up from conformational bias.
I have friends from all walks of life and those that are in a less fortunate financial position drive ICE cars (I have several friends who live in Ancoats and Hulme in Manchester, for instance), those that have taken early retirement or have well paid jobs often have an EV in the household (these people are not car enthusiasts it has to be said). Hence, I see a divide that is partial attributable to personal wealth: also none of these friends are self-employed and are in a position to take advantage of the corporation tax relief).
As for mega miles, my best friend has a daughter up in Scotland and travels often with her husband to visit. She has had several Mini convertibles and I've asked if she fancies an electric version. She tells me the range of the small cars she likes (Fiat, Minis etc) do not have range to visit her almost off grid daughter and get her to the Lake District and back in a day. She is not happy to take the chance of struggling to find charge points (some single women I know don't like the idea of having to go and sit in service stations on their own). So for now, petrol it is.
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5 hours ago, wyx087 said:
What is the percentage of driving population that actually do require the kind of mileage on a daily basis?
I have never said EV is suitable for every single person, "if situations allow". Key is evaluating it as a viable option first.
Well I was reacting, at that time, to your conclusive statement that for people with driveways "... EV should be the default first consideration now". Obviously, that is not a true statement. I agree with your later qualification that states that this is not actually a true statement.
EVs are an alternative to ICE cars, but they are not an automatic improvement for many people and I would argue they are not an improvement for the majority of people. The EV owners I see, are all financially pretty secure people, or they are at the time of purchase/PCP/Lease. It feels like there is a financial divide between ownership of EVs rather than ICE in general, imho.
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7 minutes ago, wyx087 said:
Obviously EV isn't for everyone even with a driveway. I think this is better worded:
Nice life story though
Sadly, those Prod Managers have less of a life now...
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If I was going to buy an EV, then it does make more sense to buy second-hand. The generally greater depreciation currently enjoyed by EVs does make them pretty good value for prospective owners. I doubt the battery life will cause too many problems for EV fans, altough it is possible that insurance premiums may be a little higher owing to increased repair bills. From what I've read the increasing use of Giga factories and their build techniques, will drive the cost of making the body/chassis down by around 30%, but this is offset to some degree by repair cost going up by an estimated 30% as the average repair is more difficult.
Earlier this year this came out.
To be fair, I can see that the 'Muricans (Hertz) would drop lease EVs quicker, owing to potentially the huge distance that many have to travel between cities and states (constant high speed driving is not playing to the EVs strongest suit and also the cost of their ICE fuel is still comparatively cheap. Overall, it seems to suggest that buying new EVs is not the night and day money windfall that is often suggested, whereas the second-hand market of EVs is where the real value for money stuff is. My friend and colleague that bought a relatively young Taycan (fabulous build quality) for what was approaching half it's initial purchase price seems to have acquired a 'steal', although he spends his life running around and getting up early to go chase chargers when working away from home.
Here's some rough comparisons for last year's ICE v EV depreciation (I did laugh at the F type depreciation figure)
https://choosemycar.com/resources/buying-and-selling-tips/ev-drop
and the lovely Ginny giving a heads-up on cheap second-hand EVs (even if some of the figures are frightening)
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8 hours ago, wyx087 said:
Indeed, for people with driveway, EV should be the default first consideration now.
Absolutely not! No way. If your circumstances fit with an EV then having a driveway is a boon, but I have a driveway and won't touch an EV with a barge pole until I retire, or my workload reduces as I tail off into retirement. At SKY many of the Production managers have been given, or are expected to drive, an EV. Generally, they consider them a pain the ar$e. Travelling a distance to be on site and fulfill a 12 hour day, necessitates extra 'overnights', which is more time not spent at home. It also means they are often late on site because of the typical charge issues with travelling long distance at rush hour (which is several hours for many places these days). Partly caused by long distance and sometimes caused by travelling from one job to another and so on. My industry consists of a lot of very long hour days and extensive driving. Most road warriors are sticking to ICE and those that jump, do so because of the Corporation tax offset allowance (we almost all work as limited companies these days).
If you can accommodate an EV into your lifestyle and it makes financial sense for you, then go for it. Otherwise, you would be a fool to be dragged into the EV world for "fear of missing out". I accept that some will buy an EV for genuine altruistic reasons and put up with the inconvenience, but in my experience they are few and far between.
I would also like to know if anyone has done a survey to find if EV drivers are putting on more weight than ICE drivers?
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I'd happily buy one of these if all I did was a regular commute into the city.
But no way for longer trips, or any EV for that matter. Running costs when you are out and about for several days without access to cheap electricity are not good. Plus when you factor in all the extra overpriced food that gets consumed that includes (all my colleagues who travel similar distances for their jobs, to the mileages that I do), or extra hotel bills because they can't guarantee getting home without charging twice, means it's a dead end for me.
Also, why won't so many Tesla owners see it any other way than their cars being superior?? Clearly, that bubble is bursting (even if the recharge infrastructure is still probably the best for Tesla owners themselves....when available thanks to thoughtless "duff" cars and their owners
). I can have intelligent conversations with EV owners when at work, about EVs and PHEVs, unless they are Tesla owners. Then, it's Tesla, or nothing! I don't have an axe to grind about EVs, in fact, I have recommended the Hyundai N5 to a presenter looking for a quick EV to replace his ICE car. But Tesla evangelists, give me a break, please!
I came up with this handy conversion chart for car owners
ICE (petrol and derv) = Omnivore
PHEV = Pescatarian (you want to stop eating meat, but just can't quite go all the way)
EV = Vegetarian
Tesla owners = Vegans
Anyhoo, my PHEV is parked up being charged and my V8 needs to go walkies.....
brb
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He was definitely a tesla wassock! Calling anything that wasn't a tesla "duff" didn't show him in an impartial light.
I get 'charging at home', especially if you can get sufficient charge at a lower rate, but charging prices compared to a diesel that could easily do 60mpg at similar motorway speeds to average EVs and with 2-3 times the range of most EVs means not having to stop and spend money on unnecessary coffees, pastries and food at exorbitant service station prices. If I was running a car purely for cost effectiveness, then I would be back in a 2.0 diesel in a heartbeat.
To be frank, I'm also a bit fed up with more and more staff turning up late with the excuse of "I couldn't get on a charge point on my way to site". They are paid to be there at a certain and start their duties. Either set off earlier than their ICE powered colleagues, or get an overnight hotel!
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On 06/06/2024 at 09:13, Ootohere said:
SWARCO, he must know the name. Runs Charge Place Scotland, Does the EV Charger Maintenance for most of Scotland's 32 Local Authorities.
Bought the EV Charger Manufacturer that is now e-Volt and are the most common chargers that are on the CPS network. Most often broken.
He charged at a slower speed (lower amp) on the 3 pin & then the 3 phase and hogged that charging place / BAY all night rather than moving the car later on & incase A.N.Other wanted in there to charge.
This is Real World Electric Cars and Electric Car drivers & Vloggers.
Thinking about this a bit more, the connector for this hotel car park, looked like a standard 16amp connector plugged into the wall, so I am surprised to see that he thought he could also use a 32amp feed when available. I'm familiar with a 32amp connector and it is similar looking, but larger and not compatible with a 16amp fitting. Is this something cars have adopted? Not heard of it myself.
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On 06/06/2024 at 09:13, Ootohere said:
SWARCO, he must know the name. Runs Charge Place Scotland, Does the EV Charger Maintenance for most of Scotland's 32 Local Authorities.
Bought the EV Charger Manufacturer that is now e-Volt and are the most common chargers that are on the CPS network. Most often broken.
He charged at a slower speed (lower amp) on the 3 pin & then the 3 phase and hogged that charging place / BAY all night rather than moving the car later on & incase A.N.Other wanted in there to charge.
This is Real World Electric Cars and Electric Car drivers & Vloggers.
55p/kWhr plus the price of "tea" at Tebay services, makes for a very expensive stop!. It is one of the nicer places to take a break on a motorway, even if the last two times I've been there, there has been a thunderstorm and the power went out at the services
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On 09/05/2024 at 08:00, Ootohere said:
@Lady Elanore How about one of these? http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/435353-north-east-250-scotland
Funnily enough, I have been recommending them to a friend interested in EVs and wants something to replace his Mini Cooper GP thingy
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I took this recently one evening. 10x zoom on my Samsung phone and then a further digital zoom (totalling around 20x zoom I would estimate), so that's the excuses out of the way. Impressive catch though (the bird, not the photo)
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To give Peugeot credit, they kept me informed about this inconvenient matter and reduced my expected bill by 15% as well as dropping my car off outside my house just now. The service manager brought it back in person, which was quite nice. Driven car around the block and it seems OK. One surprising thing that the service revealed is my rear tyres are wearing faster than my fronts. Maybe I should stop handbrake turning my car into parking spots?
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Sounds like the updates have gone through today. I can remote access the car again, which is positive. They are ringing back in a short while to let me know what's going on
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14 hours ago, wyx087 said:
Tesla is not known to book people in for anything software related, they prefer to solve remotely by pushing a new OTA update, failing that it's "ranger" to your door, service centre is last resort. So might needed a new charge port or onboard charger?
Not sure what's the problem with Kia..... again, doesn't sound like software related. Sounds like dealer or Kia UK doesn't know what's wrong with the car.
Won't be seeing the Tesla chap until the next footie season and the Kia owner had a list of woes so long I'd have to get him to write them all down. If it had been my car, I would have returned it as not up to spec.
I honestly reckon that all the people I know reasonably well, who own EVs, have had major problems within the first couple of years. I've never known such problems with ICE owners. It definitely feels like we are all Beta testers. I can't think of any acquaintances that own regular Hybrid cars having issues, though. But that would be understandable with the lower voltage and complexity, of the cars.
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He was finding that charging at home was becoming 'challenging' (I think it was taking longer than previously), so booked it in and had a software update. Didn't go totally smoothly, As I recall it was a "pick it up the next day" kind of problem. As for the Kia, that was a total nightmare. Became a standing joke when he turned up for work in a parade of different courtesy cars (all ICE and entry models). I think he was thinking of junking the whole EV thing, except he had invested in a windmill farm to get cheap 'leccy, so persevered. He now uses an ICE car for a lot of jobs though.
The only issue I have ever had with an ICE car updating was when I agreed to it happening whilst parked at a petrol pump. I thought it would be a background update, but instead it immobilised me for quite a long time and I managed to block not only the pump, but all traffic on that side
To be fair to the car, it was my own stupid fault.
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FWIW, I have a colleague who has had problems with Tesla software too. Although the record for days not on the road, seems to be owned by a colleague's Kia Niro. Spent many, many weeks at the dealers.
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At last, an Electric car I can be genuinely excited about!
in Electric Vehicles
Posted
That is plain weird! I think?