Lady Elanore

Nooooo V8 "Foul ref!!"

I remember working at Cadwell park and hearing the Norton bikes. They sounded amazing. Sort of a mix between the 2 strokes and 4 strokes but only choosing the best sounds from each. Apologies to the bike riders as I had forgotten your engines ..."my bad", as they say

So, taking of sound... V10s and V12, W8, W12 and W16 all sound exotic as do flat 12s etc but they are usually a bit too expensive for the average person to run, meaning the V8 is quite possibly the most accessible aural treat to purchase. But there are other fabulous sound out there, such as the Jaguar 3.8/4.2 straight six and the glorious BMW 3.2 (S54) M3 CSL - possibly the finest mass production straight 6, at least in sound. Nissan GTR and it's trumpeting V6 is a fun noise and obviously the flat 6 Porsche and flat 4 Scooby are both iconic as well as affordable (just - in the case of the Porsche :D). Triples too can make a fun noise with a slightly course straight 6 sound and the Audi straight 5 sounded great until they put one too many filters in the exhaust. So going off course a little with the M4 theme of this thread, what the best sounding REAL WORLD engine with LESS THAN 8 cylinders. BDA engines and their ilk are not allowed. You can like an engine because of it's induction noise, it's exhaust noise, or even it's aesthetic layout And for Gods sake don't just post bloody useless links that you can't be ar$ed to even post an opinion about, We all have the Internet and a computer mouse and most of us have an accompanying keyboard For me the BMW S54 in the M3 CSL is possibly my favourite although the Jag V6S F type sound pretty good with a sports exhaust.

I was lucky enough to sell American V8 powered cars and trucks and nothing sound as good as they do, at least in V8 form. Audi, BMW and Mercedes V8s sound like they have lost their teeth compared to a proper Yank V8. To be fair to the straight 6, it only really comes alive aurally, when it is singing at higher revs with your foot down (under load) and then the yowl and bark start to come through. I don't think the V6 has ever quite met the aural challenge of the straight 6 'on song' but the V6 does sound better at lower revs and lower loads imho. Having said that ^^ I'd still love a go in one to see how it drives

So as it's an M4 thread here's an M4 related thingie. It's the new MPE for the M3/4. It sounds similar to mine, but less bombastic and a bit more refined. Slightly more pleasant if I'm honest and not so 'exhaust fallen off the car' on start up as mine. Having said that the standard zorst sounds pretty good when they put it into Sports mode at the end. You can't tell if the relative loudness is the same owing to the auto gain on the recording device, but I suspect once well run-in, they will both sound pretty good. Surprising really as there is now yet another filter in the way But those looks. As we've posted before on here, they are polarising, just as much as the front grills really and it looks like a new diffuser is needed. That's probably going to cost £5-6k all in, at list price, I guess They really are pricing the car out of its current market, even with the discounts that will invariably follow eventually.

I owned an A4 3.0tdi quattro, although it was just a manual. Great car. Mpg well into the 40s on the motorway and a decent turn of speed when pressing on I also had the Sports Diff, which after a job I went to got cancelled and we got sent home, I took advantage of the empty snow covered car park we would have used and spend 20 minutes being a pillock.... I broke my diff They had to fly a new one in from Germany and I got a loan car for a few days. Luckily the car was under warranty. I asked how much it would have cost me for the whole job if I had to have spent my own money (the Sports Diff was a £500 option on a new car) and I was told something like £7k (£5.5k for the diff alone)

I wonder if there is a mindset developing of desperate petrolheads trying to get 'one last fix' before we go full 'tactical' green friendly'

Hence the idea of a V8. lots of "grrr" without breaking any speed limits. Anyhoo it's for me to enjoy and bystanders can either shake their heads at me or smile. I can't stop the future, but I have a bucket of sand on standby to stick my head in and hold on to my dreams as long as possible

I like cars with a bit of "grrrr" More electric means less "grrr". I've never owned a V8 and always hoped that one day I would. Perhaps I will have to jump next year if I can afford one, it might well be the last chance for it. Even then, they have yet another filter in the exhaust making them sound ever more muffled :( I don't need 'pops' and 'crackles' just a naturally emitted sound (I have the synthetic sounds turned off in my car)

Btw I should add that I have shared cars with the above in recent times, but we were all 'bubbled' and PCR C-19 tested prior

I've driven only hybrids in any real anger so far, although one of the regular crew that I work with has a Tesla 3 that I have had a brief go in. We both decided that my M4 was a much more emotional experience. My emotion was mainly slow the 'heck' down, as he gave it some beans The Volvo look great and I think it is companies like this that will burst Tesla's bubble (if that financial bubble doesn't crash beforehand). Tesla may be theoretically wealthy, but the truth wealth of experience and knowing how to build a quality car is not necessarily their forte. I hate the excess weight of electric cars..and for that matter the ever-increasing weight of all the cars I l am interested in. The new C63 with it's teeny 2.0 engine is getting on for 2 tons with it's hybrid addition. Don't get me started with the weight increase of the M3/4. A wasted opportunity in probably BMWs last ever M3/4 car that is purely petrol powered. It may well be a superb car to drive, but it's still sad they went in the direction they did

That's kinda the point of my rather long post. I used to think that things like traffic light GP potential was a good thing, but helped by owning a car that likes to stay stationary and blind fellow traffic light GP-ers with tyres smoke will it stays more or less stationary, I think I have realised that other things matter more. And it's the noise that I will miss most. I will never feel any attachment to an electric motor unlike many of my previous cars. Modding your electric cars performance will involve a bloke (or bloke-ess) checking your wiring will take the extra current, putting a 6 inch nail in for a master fuse and connecting to your cars mega brain with his smar****ch.....probably. It's the opposite of sitting, waiting weeks while your cylinder head goes away for a polish and porting job and the never ending fettling and tweaking of things like carburettors to try and keep performance at it's peak potential. Things that take effort always provide more satisfaction in the long run. Although I grant you, chasing after the rust that infected my many Italian cars was not so satisfying

I get why we need electric cars and I know I'll have to drive one full time one day, but I will miss the mechanical nature of ICE cars. Is digital sound better than analogue? Is film photography superior to digital? I guess it's a personal thing. When I am ruler of the earth all electric cars will have to make a noise like the Jetsons flying car. i actually would like that Maybe it could be first implemented for low speed driving, ie for car parks and moving around junctions where pedestrians sometimes cut in as the stagger across the road

Funnily enough it had a Miltek. Extraordinarily loud. Sounded like a really cross dinosaur

I like triples, they do sound a bit like a straight 6 with extra "grrrr". I haven't spent much time in electric cars but so far I hate them. I hate the bland Tesla interior and the lack of actual switchgear particularly. BMW are still the best out there in that regard (compared to their direct German competitors) but often get called out for a lack of innovation. If something is right, then why change it? Electric cars also seem to lack soul, almost certainly because of the slight whine and lack of mechanical engine noise. People like steam locos because of the fact the engine was a living breathing thing (I have learnt not to call it a steam train). People love the Spitfire because of its engine sound (ok and also it's looks etc). People love muscle cars mainly because of their sound (they are generally awful to drive, until recently at least). Perhaps I'm overthinking it, but the push to electrification has made he wonder about this quite a bit and imagine what I will miss most in the next decade or so. We may well have attractive cars, great handling and roadholding, more performance than an overacting Clarkson, but the sound will be gone. Sure you can simulate the sound and many manufacturers current do to some extent, but the vibrations and slightly nonlinear way that an 'ice' car vibrates and responds is something that can't be simulated properly. Planet killers? maybe, life enhancers? definitely.

I think I prefer the non turbo sounds of V8s. I spent a lot of time in the old RS4 with the 4.2 V8 and it sounded tremendous. Likely as not I'll end up in a eurobarge next year and wave goodbye to silly cars, but I live in hope. It's a shame the M2 isn't coming out sooner, although who knows if that will get a straight 6 I'm on the verge of giving up on cars as anything more than transport I fear. George Clooney loves M4s btw, he told me so last night

There is no 2.3 unit I tell you, it's a conspiracy along with the moon landing. Only 5.0V8 is available. "la la la la la la la la la la la la..." fingers in my ears "la la la la la la la..." I've gone la-la

I hadn't thought of LHD, just RWD I drove a lot of LHD cars over here in the early noughties and it wasn't really a problem. You can certainly make a more elegant exit from your car as it parks against the kerb as standard

That's the things though, we will all be driving Lego cars soon (probably not as much as that sounds) and as a bit of a rubbish thought experiment, I was asking what is the one thing that you would keep above all others. I figure as I will be driving slowly and with loads of auto-nanny systems controlling my max speed etc, it might as well sound great

The more I think about it, the more I figure my thoughts on things like sound being important, are probably to do with the fact we can't go anywhere without the nanny police watching our every move (which is of course perfectly within the law) the ever diminishing speed limits and roads becoming more difficult to navigate at pace with our every expanding mechanical waistlines. We are a smallish country with small roads, we need smaller cars (with big engines of course). So if I can't go anywhere quickly, my car is too big, it weighs too much to have proper fun, it might as well sound fabulous

Not sure you can have both, as your Eurobox would only have standard power :p I also didn't mention that your Eurobox was RWD as standard, but I think you assumed that anyway

So here is a question... as a petrolhead, definitely not a 'Batthead' (is that a thing or have I have imagined that term for 'leccy powered car owners?) and in this case, not a dervhead, what is most important in a car to an enthusiast? You might have to bear with me a little on this, so probably best get a cup of tea if you intend reading on. over the many years, I've bought cars based on the usual factors, handling, power, soundtrack, looks and interior stuff, but until recently I've been able to mix and match the variation of these factors prevalence as my heart and purse-strings allowed. I have always put acceleration pretty high up in my 'want' category, it's the easiest and most accessible of the kinetic...or fun... factors in a quick car, of course handling is important too and so sometimes I've bought a car that was quick in a straight line, but a little lacking in the handling department (Fiat Uno Turbo ie mk 2-boosted) or handled well but was a tad slow (Fiat X1/9 - but so pretty), but the excess of one factor balanced out the lacking of another, at least in the enjoyment stakes-if not necessarily the nerve shredding understeer of the Uno Turbo Some cars have looked great, handled well and performed well (Mk1 Clio 16v) or accelerated like a stabbed rat, hung on tenaciously but had the interior like a 1970s Toyota (Subaru Impreza Turbo Mk1-the interior was less interesting than watching 2 people playing noughts and crosses, 'first to a thousand'). But one thing remained constant, at least in my eyes, most of my fun cars, have had interesting engines. My Beta Coupe had a twin cam when Ford were still churning out the single OHC Escorts, my Clio had a revvy 16v when the 205Gti had an 8v. Of course the Subarus had those interesting Boxers, my Strada 130TC had the twin 40s snorting away when the rest of the world were going to civilised injection, my M135 and M4 have a creamy straight 6 with ...er..."good pick up" to quote a great movie, even my 123D BMW had the worlds first twin turbo 4 cylinder diesel and the first production one to break 100bhp per litre and have an alloy cylinder head (I wasn't going to mention diesel, but it's my thread). Anyhoo, I like a nice engine, but all the ones I would like to own are 6 cylinders and upwards. This has become a big problem. Now that petrol cars are becoming pariahs, small 4 cylinder and 3 cylinder engines are making their way into more and more big cars. Plus all cars are getting bigger with every generation. The new M4 is massive, it is also heavy and really expensive. The new C class only has 4 cylinder engines, no 6 or 8 cylinder versions will appear ever again. The RS5 and RS4 is also big and lardy and no doubt will have a 5 cylinder at best in the next iteration. Basically you will be lucky to have a 4 cylinder engine in a fast, yet small car, that doesn't have some lumpen great battery pack stuffed into it somewhere. It's the future and it's coming to a street near you soon. All this has made me realise that acceleration is not the most important thing for me by a long stretch, after all 'leccy cars are ballistic in a straight line. It's not the level of grip that really matters that much-apart from a safety aspect of course-'leccy cars do tend to have super low centres of gravity. It's the soundtrack and the ability to modulate the cars behaviour with you right foot (other feet are available) that excites me. Lighter weight, at least compared to forthcoming cars, means change of direction is easier and more fun, 'leccy cars have their weight spread out of a long section for the car, so their polar momentum isn't so great, even if the centre of gravity is. There isn't anything wrong with 4 cylinder engines (3 cylinder ones can sound great) and my next car may well be a small 4 cylinder one, but it's not what I want and I can't have what I desire any more, at least on my budget. An A45S is no doubt a fantastic car and one I could easily live with, except it sounds like an electric toothbrush that's been swallowed by a cow...and that cow is standing in the next field. An RS3 goes really well and even doesn't understeer too much these days, but they have killed the soundtrack with filters. There is the Alpine which admittedly is a great looking and handling car, but like the current Boxster/Caymen has a plain old 4 cylinder. I want more in a new car!!! All this had led me to the odd position of thinking about Mustangs. In a years time my M4 will be gone and although times have been a little tough of late, I am hoping by then I will be in a financial position to get a new car and besides it's nice to fantasise. Normally I wouldn't have dreamt of something so big (which I hate) quite heavy (which I hate) Suspect handling via youtube infamous oversteer (which I don't mind so much as long as I win), rubbish fuel economy (not a fan) dodgy recycled plastic looking interior (it is American) not as quick in a straight line as I would like (scream if you want to go faster) and some unusual choices in design (10 speed auto anyone?). BUT, it has that engine and that engine makes that sound (apparently there is a 2.3 engine, but I believe this is false news and sent to scare us). So finally I have come to my rambling point. The noise an engine makes appears to be the most important thing to my car buying purchase. I am amazed, I thought it would be handling or some such. I am basically the automotive fan equivalent of a McDonald's 'loyalty queen' customer. So if we all had a similar standard Eurobox designed car - and you can assume it does everything quite well and safely - which one option of individuality would you add to it, what is most important to you? You can only pick one! Handling (however you like it) Roadholding Acceleration Braking Off-road ability (includes simple 4x4 option for those who live where it snows a lot and it's hilly) Interior quality Interior toys Exterior looks Exterior functionality (think tough Landrover Defender) Space (more) Weight (less - or more if you want to tow) Fuel consumption Sound (includes subtle vibrations of engine were appropriate) Running costs

The little numberplate looks like a staple across a pair of butt cheeks Why couldn't they have made it 80% the size overall :( I suspect the next M2 will also be a bit lardy :( Might as well go buy a big old Mustang before it's too late to enjoy a great sounding engine. The Mach 1 looks great and from what I've read on some M3/4 forums there might be one or two people jump ship, especially after the lean financial years many of us have had.

Harry chats to prof Gordon Murray about his new hyper track car thingie (the one with the Henry hoover built in) via Zooooom

Although I also think these renders look superb. Now that is a car I could live with