Graham Butcher

Update on the tyres, and thank you to those who have replied to the question. When I noticed how low the fronts were yesterday, I could not find my tread depth gauge and just went purely on what they felt like to the touch, and they looked very near the limit and felt like it as well, hence ordering 2 new ones to be fitted tomorrow. Today I still was unable to find the tread gauge, so I used my digital verniers instead and the actual tread depth measured just 2.1mm and the AA advise replacing tyres before they reach 2mm and certainly when approaching the autumn/winter and that is what I have always done in the past. Had it been spring time and heading into summer, I might have been tempted to run them a little longer towards the minimum legal limit of 1.6mm. I have had Avon ZV7 before and was happy with the overall performance, I'm not a speed demon, so I'm very happy with them, they are quieter on the road and also have a good wet braking performance for the money, part of that I expect might to do with their greater tread depth of 8.3mm.

No, the energy cap price thingy was paid directly to the energy company, but my energy bill for just gas along went from £100 per month to £190 and now I just made them refund me £500 which is the maximum I can be refunded when I discovered that were sitting there with almost £1,000 in my gas account. I have now amended that monthly figure to £70 a month. So did they need that extra uplift in my monthly bill or was just a means of getting more money into their bank hmm.... Or indeed was the England help with energy bills paid at all?

@toot I agree there are people driving EVs without home charging, but there could be a lot more with the right encouragement. Your Mum is very lucky then to be in Scotland, all I got as a senior citizen was £200 winter fuel allowance, full stop.🤨

Oh ok I see what you mean now, but is still only a few % differences. You up in Scotland apparently have more than enough electricity generation capacity, meanwhile here in the UK we don't and have had huge price increases while the energy companies have never had such huge profits.

Business users I can understand as it is tax-deductible but the public, many of whom are already hard pushed to run even a basic old car seeing as they have seen wages and indeed pensions being eroded year-on-year, cannot just keep dipping their hand into a empty pocket and plucking money off an invisible money tree. Yes there is a vast amount of wealth in this country, but it is not being distributed well enough, and no I'm even thinking about communism before anyone even mentions it. The truth is the gulf between the poorest in society and the richest has never been wider then it is right now and there is a cost of living crisis so the richest are still finding a way to further enrich themselves even further. But let's not drag politics into this.

Well if no UK or any other Political Party is not going to change things soon, then I think they will all have to endure the public displeasure. If they are serious about wanting to clean up the air, then they really do need to take the bull by the horns and regulate properly, so the public know roughly what to expect their bills to be. Seems more and more like the tail is wagging the dog here and we the end customer is being treated as a cash cow. Another war breakout somewhere else and you will not be able to afford to recharge your car as the suppliers will just see it as yet another opportunity to cash in. Incidently the 20p a litre was not in the retail based example I used.

Not sure what point you're trying to make here, I was just trying to compare like with like. i.e, cars at a normal filling station forecourt and with EV cars at a normal charging location. I really doubt anyone is that daft enough to go to suppler for farms and construction plants etc as the diesel is coloured red and attracts different taxation rates and their fuel is normally supplied by tankers direct to the farmer or construction sites own on site tanks and are delivered direct by specialised distributors which are not open to the public and I would have thought (judging by those near me) don't have brilliantly lit forecourts and are normally hidden behind high fences / security walls. Haulage yards have to use white diesel, which is the same as that used in diesel powered cars and taxed the same, hauliers can claim some of that tax back, private users cannot.

@toot the above figures you quoted show precisely what I was saying, the prices do not change all the much from station to station, whereas the figures you quoted me earlier in the discussion and I copy and past them here "7 kW public charging from anything like 20 pence to 44 pence a kWh, or Rapid Charging from 30 to 50 pence or as much as 80 pence a kWh?" show massive percentage changes of 20p to 44p = 120% increase from the cheapest to the dearest for a kWh. The 30p to 50p = 66.666% increase and the 30p to 80p = 166.66% increase. Compare that with 154.7 litre to 159.9 litre = 1.033% So the difference in pricing is way lower. The point you make about the bunkered fuel is self-evident at many locations across the UK with a clear indication given as to which pumps are designated for HGV's and cars / light goods such as vans. There are some of these near to me as well.

Yes I have seen 2 petrol stations like you said and if you bother to read what I said, I had already covered that and said that the prices do not change a great deal between stations/brands and yet EV charging is does. Present the public with a defacto straight forward comparison with prices that pretty consistent, (without any mention of home charging) and then if there is a genuine advantage to the average person to switch, that they would do so and then everyone gets the benefit of less polluted air to breathe is that what you are looking for? A carrot is always far better than a stick. If it is impossible to make a EV that that can be refuelled in just minutes like an ICE can, then make the EV fit into everyone's lifestyle in a more convenient fashion, by being able to combine the things that almost everyone has to do with charging, so killing two birds with a single stone makes perfect sense. So remove the bottomless jerry tank at home and the home charging out of the equation all together, it is not needed in the above scenario. It goes without being said, that if anyone has either of those two things, that they will take full advantage of it. The object of what I'm putting forward is to hopefully show to people that it could well be possible to have an EV car even without having access to home charging and if what you are saying, that it is still more competitive to run a EV car is correct even without home charging that you might see your dream come true of a more rapid uptake of EV cars. Why is this proving to be such a stumbling block for?

This is where the info came from, it claims that Charge Place Scotland is free at most locations. The 15 Best Electric Car Charging Companies: A Round Up of UK Public Charging Networks | Lease Fetcher Either way, by using your figures there are massive price swings.

That is what I'm talking about, if there was proper regulation that both would be price comparable and everyone take advantage of it.

Surely the only head in the sand bit here is you, do you really think that people are that stupid that they could not see that home charging is going to be the best option for them if they can possibly do it. What I'm talking about is to remove all talk of home charging, yes I do understand if you can do it, its excellent value, but it is no incentive for those who can't, so why the hell can it not be simple for those people to work out if an EV now could be a viable option for them to go with, rather than waiting till they have no option. If the aim is about cleaning the air even further, then helping more people to switch has to be a good thing do you not agree? If yes, then it needs to be shown to those people that switching over does not make very much difference to their daily lives by locating plenty of chargers at the locations that they visit on a regular basis. They can then charge while doing the normal things like shopping. All cars need to have the capability of rapid charging (DC) so while doing a weekly shop, their cars can be fully charged in about 1 hour. The cost of the charge needs to be less expensive (ideally) than the comparable petrol/diesel cost per mile, or certainly no dearer. Chargers still need to be located alongside the road network, just as filling stations are. Oil companies like Esso, BP, Shell, Texaco, Jet are with a couple of pence of each other per litre (supermarkets slightly cheaper) now compare that with the EV charging companies Pod Point 28p and 44pKW depending on speed InstaVolt 75pKw Osprey 75p & £1 Kw depending on speed Shell Recharge 85p (slow) and 65p (rapid) odd that the rapid is cheaper. BP Pulse 57p / 65p / 69p Kw depending on speed Ionty 69p Kw Gridserve 39p/48p/50p/66p Kw depending on speed and/or location ChargePlace Scotland 0p (free) well done Scotland. Source London (london based only) 69p/59p/55p Kw plus £4 monthly membership. Add in to the above that some offer cheaper prices to members for a monthly/annual fee and need a card or a phone app and the situation is even more confusing and becomes overly complicated. Hopefully now you can see from the above that if you cannot for whatever reason, charge at home it seems that you are exposed to a complete lottery on the actual cost that you are going to have to pay for a charge, and you have to factor in charging times, plus certain brands/suppliers of charger are not available across the country or in the ideal locations. It seems a no-brainer given that charging takes time, to locate lots of chargers at locations where people all go to on a regular basis, i.e, supermarkets, thus no time is lost while charging is the nearest thing you are going to get to refuelling an ICE powered vehicle. Supermarkets still get their customers in shopping, the energy companies are still getting their income from the chargers, governments are getting their cleaner air and getting closer to Net Zero and changing climate change. Users don't see any disadvantage or change to their lifestyle, may even see a slight saving in running cost even without home charging. The only actual losers will be high mileage long distance drivers who will need to stop more often to recharge and that would require their employer taking this added on cost on the chin. Surely that makes total sense??

Thanks for this link, I think that Dave explains it quite well, it is a lottery and these charge point providers are really milking it. Granted they have to provide the land and the chargers, but they are buying so much electricity that they will be paying far less than we pay at home, that is the way that it works, the more you buy, the cheaper it gets. Just imagine for a moment if a litre of unleaded was to vary by such a wide swing between the different brands. It just never happens, there may be a difference of a p or so between them and they also have huge great big signs clearly displaying the prices that you can see before pulling into the pumps. It is clear that this needs to be regulated in order to help people make the switch before being compelled to do so, and what better way of doing so than to show them that they can A, save money by doing it and B, in a lot of cases it does need to take much time to charge, if they could locate some high speed chargers where people tend to go, such as shopping centres, restaurants, hospitals etc, so that they can go about their normal day-to-day activities even if they can't charge at home and not be ripped off by excessive prices or pre-charge payments and without needing loads of apps/cards etc. That is certainly the most logical way to get people out of their ICE cars. The current situation is just bonkers, and it suggests that it has big money making schemes lobbying for the transition to EV rather than cleaning the air.

Yes, the info you gave was OK, but it also highlights the extremely wide charge bands which can be off-putting, something that does not happen to that extent with ICE fuel. The video was very good, but it also showed he did 3 stops and charged at all of them, whereas in an ICE it would have been possible to complete the trip without refuelling and still have shorter comfort breaks. It also IMO showed that you need to pay attention to things like battery temps and also need to have a load of different apps on your phone and charge cards etc to suit different chargers (providers). With an ICE, you only need a debit or credit card, regardless of the supplier of your fuel. Hopefully that clarifies it a bit?

You just don't get it do you? If you want to encourage people to make the switch from ICE to EV at the first opportunity, you need to first make the comparison something that is meaningful to those people who cannot do home charging, if they can, then that is an added bonus for them and these people are most certainly bright enough to make that connection for themselves. Let me spell it out for you. Think of your self living on the 4th floor of a block of flats, or in an old town house which has no front garden, no drive and is in a block of about 10 or more terraced houses, and an insufficient power supply to be able to charge at home, but you are aware that chargers exist at filling stations, car parks etc, and you are used to having to driving to a filling station to refuel your existing ICE car, so you could continue to do so (ignore the time taken to charge), and you just want to work out what would be the realistic monetary impact of making the switchover to you personally. Does that help to focus your mind? To continually push the advantages you have with your home charging is IMO just creating a block to those who can't, so why persist in quoting your home costs.

I'm talking about for an average sized family car and not being able to charge at home and so having to rely on the public chargers in car parks, service stations etc as anyone who charges and quoting their costs are actually distorting the real cost of EV ownership for those who cannot charge at home, which is the majority of the public. That way, its possible to better gauge the cost of ownership in £m ignoring the time taken to charge. i.e., cost per mile for ICE v cost per mile in a EV if charging away from home. Not free ones as this will not be possible in every case. In other words, we need to compare as near as possible apples with apples. Those able to charge will obviously benefit greatly from being able to do so, but sadly that is not living in the real world, people cannot get access to cheap fossil fuel at home can they?

I have Riken UHP tyres fitted and they seem to be wear extremely fast and require 2 new front tyres. When I brought the car 3,500 miles ago they looked as it the reasonable tread left but now almost bald. Has anyone have any experience of these tyres at all? I have had Avon ZV7 before and 2 more fitted tomorrow morning.

To put this into UK context, take away the home charging element as not everyone can, what would be the actual cost of using public chargers (not free ones) and then how does that stack up against your French trip? The French seem to have far better infrastructure and lower cost per KW then we do in the UK.

That's great, but I doubt that free charging is going to last for much longer, Morrisons have already started to charge I think as every time I go there, their 2 chargers are now always empty (could be broken I guess, maybe I'll take a closer look next time) but as more EV's take to the roads, there will be more lost revenue to the treasury and increased demand on the grid and more associated cost to those shops providing free charging. These costs will soon be passed down to the customer with some margin of profit added on top, and the more EVs coming onto the roads, the greater the pressure will be to remove free charging and find some way of charging the EV clan some VED or equivalent.

Yeah, I did think that at the time, so how about this one, Ferrari In Affordable Trim?

Yet more cars with touch controls that are likely to be banned soon when governments work out that operating it is as bad as using a mobile phone.

Thats because FIAT means Fix It Again Tomorrow

@lol-lol Agreed the investment is very welcomed.

The photo would certainly imply that was the case, I think, anyway? If so then its a deviation from the thread.

True, I know of approximately 50 Skodas that are preregistered sitting on an airfield. There used to a big field here that was home to about 100 or so new Fords, but I'm not sure if they were preregistered or not as the cars were parked side on the point of view, behind locked gates and some distance from the vantage point.