Graham Butcher

Yes I did know that EV's use a 3 phase AC motor and that that comes from a built-in inverter in the car and the speed of that motor is adjusted by adjusting the frequency of the AC supply to the motor. The same basic concept that is used on variable speed industrial motor drives on machinery. Yes I also know the risks associated with higher current flows that cause overheating, hence why we use over current protection devices, circuit breakers, HRC fuses, MCCBs etc. But the first and foremost consideration has to shock protection in the first instance. Let me tell you something, I have been in the electrical industry since day 1 when I left school and spent over 8 years building up my qualifications so I do actually know what I'm talking about. EDIT. My comment about the phases was not a statement made by me, but was actually made by @PetrolDave hence why I said, I knew and that I put it down to a typo, not mine but by @PetrolDave 😒

I just put the 180 degrees down to a typo, I knew what you meant.

Actually, this is misinformation the all portable power tools on a construction must be 110v and fed via 110v CTE (centre tapped earth) so that the maximum voltage on site to earth is only 55V. Electricity - Systems in buildings - HSE Scroll down on that site to the heading Portable electrical equipment for the confirmation. I apologise for labouring the point, but electrics are deadly and nobody if they are not a qualified electrical engineer should really not be tampering with electric. Now, can we get back to normal, car discussions.

@lol-lol you mentioned a few posts ago today about the staggering level of ignorance that some have about certain topics, I agree and on that point in particular about electrics in homes etc. Anyone with any basic understanding of electrics and calculations knows that electrical power is the result of volts multiplied by the current, so 240watts @ 240 volts equals 1 amp (W=VxI) where W = Watts, V=Volts and I=Amps. Therefore, to get 240watts at 110V requires 2amps (240=110x2). Take at look at this UK website for Speedy Tool Hire giving reasons for industrial tools being 110V 110v & 240v Power Tools: Differences & Guide | Speedy Hire An extract from that site says this- If hiring power tools from Speedy, you usually have the option to choose between 110v and 240v for the tool you need. However, if there is no option of choice, an isolating transformer can convert the voltage of a corded power tool. Most sites ban 240v tools because of safety. 110v tools are seen as posing less risk of shock, as the current flowing through the cable is half of that with 240v tools. This is important if the electrical wiring or appliance is damaged. However, the consensus is that it is best to just use 110v tools where possible to minimise the number of products on site. Likewise, if you want to use a power tool or appliance at home and only the 110v version is available, you can use a transformer to convert the voltage to 240v. Using a transformer means that you can make high-quality, professional-grade power tools safe to use at home, for any DIY jobs or renovations. That is also not the only mis-information given on that site either. But let's get back to the core topic of electric cars.

Yes, that is true, and as an electrical engineer, it really pains me to say that the Americans have got that part right, just a shame that they only did part of the system right, as many sockets are not polarised and few even carry an earth connection. 110 volts is far less likely to cause fatal shocks and is the reason for all the power tools and power supplies on building sites in the UK being 110V signified by the yellow transformers, tools and cables.

@lol-lol no, 3 phase in more houses is not a good thing to have. It can be useful if people follow all the rules both at design stage, installation and in actual usage afterwards. A 240 volt shock is not always going to be fatal, very nasty, but people have been known to survive. A 3 phase system has 415 volts between any 2 phases and deadly.

That is always going to be the case, nothing is 100% accurate, and I, for one, am not claiming they are.

Do you read what people post? Maybe that would a good place to start and also look at the spreadsheet contained in the video, and also note that I have also stated that I have not checked the figures as presented in the spreadsheet, but the sources of those figures is actually quoted. All anyone here is trying to say, is that you cannot take some figures as being 100% correct, when they have a vested interest in a particular end result.

The answer to that is no, but you already knew that, we're not discussing what I have driven, but how figures can be twisted either way to reflect a particular point of view. Look at the figures that SMMT, DLVA produce and the site known as How Many Left which states that their data comes directly from the Dept of Transport and was last updated at the end of October 2025.

Maybe so to some folk and not so to others, it all depends I guess on what each person is looking for from a car. So if that added convenience of having your car pre-warmed or pre-cooled etc, outweighs the other real or not, benefits is all in the mind of the beholder and also of course the social divide in as much able to or not able to charge at home, is the range good enough. If not, can you afford to take the chance of finding a charger when you need one, or even a working one. Yes I understand about planning your time and journey, but after yes of not having to A/ having to add further time into your drive to carry out charging, and B/ having to pre-plan your route and journey to plan in charge stops is not what everybody wants or needs. It really is a case of if that suits some folk then, good luck to them. Can you imagine the roles being reversed, you have been used to driving electric and then all of a sudden being told, that the only way you can continue, is to put up with old cars with old technology, as new electric ones were being banned and ICE cars brought in as replacements? So anyone who was used to getting brand-new cars at regular intervals, would be forced to either switch to ICE cars, or put up with ageing cars, with reduced reliability and fast dwindling spares parts situation and maybe reductions in charging locations?

Not according to the DVLA, BEV registrations are currently running about 33% of the 2023/4 registrations, and that includes the ones on Auto trader as 2nd hand, which the clearly are not.

No, sorry but you are still missing the real point, EV's are in fact BEVs, PHEV, and Hybrids as these cars are all covered currently by the governments Net-Zero approach, even though Hybrids and PHEVs have mainly petrol engines and so few PHEVs are ever actually plugged in and charged, they are still being used a BIK tax dodges. Because they are still allowed within the schemes, the fact that so many are listed with delivery miles on as 2nd hand should be ringing alarm bells in your head, they are not cause for celebration.

One of my sons recently did a lease on an Audi A5 from the local dealers, presales they couldn't do enough for him, promised him this and that etc, now that the deal is done they are not appearing to be as good he first thought. Even down to repairing the faintest of dents in a door from an incident in a car park, they wanted £6,500 to repair it, he also got an independent well established body shop quote of £350 for the same.

When it comes down to it, Autotrader is a reliable source of the car listed for sale on their site, but the car that is actually photographed is often not the only one of that model or colour that the dealer has for sale, ever wondered why the cars pictured so often do not show the actual registration plate, but often shows a plate with the dealers name on it? They do not need to do that as the advert clearly states who the car is being sold by along with all their contact details, its done that way so that the dealer does not have to do fresh photos for every car they have for sale. So in that sense the cars actually listed for sale from a dealer might be many more than they advertise, so in that sense, I agree that Autotrader is not a good reliable source as to precisely how many of these pre-registered cars are still awaiting new owners, they are just like an iceberg, with just the tip on view. I have been told this as well from some dealers, it cuts down the amount of work they have to do and saves them money as listing a new one each time costs more in setup costs. You will also often see the same averts and cars appearing across many car sales platforms. You also seem to be labouring under the impression that it is Autotrader that is selling the car and that they put more adverts up for a car than they physically have in stock or access to. Well, I'll use that phrase, I think you will find, which many YouTubers use when talking about EV owners, that is certainly not the case, they carry the adverts for the actual sellers, be they trade or private, and they make their money through monthly fees.

Hmm, well if the fossil fuel powered cars were all pre-registered and taken to these airfields, and then SORN, that would only leave just the electrics in various formats, I mean yes, these SORN fossil fuelled cars may be listed as used, but they are not new cars that project the image people want to project. I remember when some people would collect their new cars at midnight, being anxious to show off their status symbol brand new car with its latest reg proudly on display for all to see.

Well not strictly true, when they were first pre-registered, they were classed as sales, but are now classed as second hand.

Well your data set was wide open from any year to 2025 and any value, so to be even more realistic, I altered it to be 2022 to 2025, with a max price of £35,000. Why, to rule out as many of the weird oddball results that your search was producing, like exotic sports cars in the £100,00 plus bracket, special track cars like there was a Ford Escort Drag car (1990), Chevrolet C20 pickup (2016), Fiat 500 (2013) BMW 3 series (1990), VW Golf (1975), Mini Paceman (2014) plus many others that should not have been included in the search, but Autotrader is rubbish for that. But, that taken to a side, further research revels that the lion share of these cars have all been pre-registered in the last 3 months of each year, which does kind of suggest that they have been pre-registered in an attempt to gain annual sales bonuses? This is the table with the target years set to 2022 to 2025.

Like I said, I haven't checked the numbers personally, but also it would seem that there is a mismatch somewhere, but you are just what the officials want, someone who will just accept what the SMMT etc are saying without seeking further evidence, your other Worcester wally (your words, not mine) has drilled down using the very database that the police would also use to prove that a car is both registered and taxed, appears to say otherwise to what SMMT are saying, so where does the real truth lay?? Also, as mentioned before, my Sister in Law was after a new petrol Toyota a while ago and was told that they are not available so had to settle for a new hybrid instead, not a PHEV or a BEV, although both were freely available. So is this not a case of the dealers, deliberately pushing the move towards electric by stating that petrol/diesels are not available, by artificially creating a shortage of them in order to try and hit their annual quota of new energy car sales? I wonder if at the end of the year, if they have hit their electric quota, if ICE versions will miraculously suddenly appear in order to hit bonuses?

I don't think this has been posted before, but if it has, I apologise for the duplication.

Just a thought, apart from the obvious social divide on display here from @lol-lol and @wyx087 which puts them further up the ladder economically then most people, but don't you have to be a certified A/C engineer to mess about with heat pumps and use specialised gear in order to test for leaks at pressure to prevent the restricted and regulated gases from escaping into the environment?

That accounts for him not appearing at the Farnborough show.

And now back towards some sort of normal programming, I don't know if anyone is aware but news coming in that Quentin Willson has died.

Just to add some clarity here, I believe that @lol-lol meant 24,000 btu and not but.

Wasn't COP30 held in Brazil and a large slice of Amazon rainforest cleared to build the conference facilities and accommodation for the many thousands of personal, all of which were flown in on many filthy polluting airplanes? Its a bit hypocritical surely when do that, the rainforest actually digests huge amounts of CO2 which just what we need apparently to combat increasing levels of CO2 and thus help to "save" the planet, but that all gets swept aside and is ignored as nothing is allowed to disrupt the narrative of Net-Zero, but these so-called conferences are actually making it worse? Haven't they ever heard of Zoom so that nobody need to add to their carbon footprint, oh no, it's only us the public who have to make sacrifices.

Guys, this is slipping again into politics and although it did start to be about electric cars, it is getting off track now.