I hope this explanation makes some degree of sense.

The explanation is now perfectly clear, thanks, veloplus, even if I don't agree with the method.

Ray.

The explanation is now perfectly clear, thanks, veloplus, even if I don't agree with the method.

Ray.

Glad you now understand my earlier post. What method of tyre rotation would you adopt?

What method of tyre rotation would you adopt?

I don't rotate tyres. When the fronts need replacing, they're replaced. The rears generally last for at least two sets of fronts, IME (I don't wait for the legal tread limit either, but I change them as soon as I notice any deterioration in the steering/handling).

Tyre rotation was a different matter in the "old days" of front engine/rear-wheel drive combinations, with cross-ply tyres. The power wear through the rear tyres was balanced by the weight over the steered wheels, so that rotation was - more or less - a way of evening out wear caused by poor toe-in, camber angle, or other suspension issues.

Nowadays, the vast majority of front tyres have to bear the brunt of dealing with both power and steering, but tyre construction has vastly improved, along with suspension methods, so that steering geometry issues are easier to eliminate.

In a FWD car, the rear tyres follow along, taking some of the weight, a little of the braking and a percentage of the handling. However, IMO, rotation only leads to increased wear overall and more frequent replacement, for no additional benefit. I will always seek to have the better tyres on the steered wheels, whether the power goes through them, or the rear tyres. Just me.

Ray.

:+1:

Couldn't of put it better myself.Ray.

:peepwall: <<<-------- Thats me standing behind the wall waiting to be shot down in flames and told NOOOO! your going to die by doing it that way!

In a FWD car, the rear tyres follow along, taking some of the weight, a little of the braking and a percentage of the handling. However, IMO, rotation only leads to increased wear overall and more frequent replacement, for no additional benefit. I will always seek to have the better tyres on the steered wheels, whether the power goes through them, or the rear tyres. Just me.

Ray.

Whilst your opinion is respected, it is the recommendation of Michelin that the tyres with the MOST tread are placed on the rear axle of a FWD car.

Whilst your opinion is respected, it is the recommendation of Michelin that the tyres with the MOST tread are placed on the rear axle of a FWD car.

I could only find "When replacing two tyres, it is recommended that the new tyres or the less worn tyres be mounted on the rear axle" on their Safety Advice page - is that what you're referring to?

If so, it doesn't mention FWD specifically, so I've queried it with them as it goes against common sense. I'll let you know what they say - but I won't be changing my view!

Ray.

This whole idea of better tyres on the rear comes about from inexperienced drivers - it is easier for them to control understeer than oversteer.

Like everything in this pathetic PC world, rules are made to cover the stupid and inexperienced rather than the norm.

After many driving many hundreds of thousands of miles (and competing in loads of motorsport events including rallying, i am fully aware of what causes oversteer, how to avoid it and how to get a car out of an oversteer),

This is why for me it is far better to have the best tyres on the front - the end doing ALL the work.

Looks like Gizmo68 hit it right on the head! Here's what Michelin said in reply to my query:

"Michelin suggest that the newer or least worn tyres should be fitted to the rear of the vehicle. This ensures that vehicle stability is maintained in extreme conditions of braking and cornering, especially on wet or slippery roads.

Most of the major tyre manufacturers would agree with this advice.

Explanation:

If new tyres are fitted to the front axle of the vehicle, on slippery roads the initial loss of grip will be at the rear, leading to oversteer. This is difficult to control, and could end up in a spin. Fitting new tyres to the rear axle of the vehicle means that the initial loss of grip will be at the front axle in extreme conditions. This understeer is much easier to control than oversteer.

Also, most modern vehicles are front wheel drive, and the front tyres wear more than the rears. The driver is used to having less grip at the front than the rear in slippery conditions. By fitting new tyres to the rear, the vehicle will continue to behave in the way the driver is used to, but with a higher level of grip. However, fitting new tyres to the front axle and keeping worn tyres on the rear will create a sudden change in the balance of the vehicle, which may take the driver by surprise in slippery conditions. This guidance can be taken as applying to front and rear wheel drive vehicles, as well as to 4x4?s, unless specific vehicle manufacturer recommendations suggest otherwise.

Whilst taking this advice into consideration, please note that if the rear tyres are as new, they may be left where they are. This advice is a suggestion and not a legal requirement. Any customer may decide not to take this advice, and to exercise his or her freedom of

choice."

Oh, well.

Ray.

i still think if i hit standing water i would rather have the tyres that are going to hit the water first with more tread on them so they clear the water away !

i still think if i hit standing water i would rather have the tyres that are going to hit the water first with more tread on them so they clear the water away !

Of course, that's the whole point I was making and what Gizmo68 re-inforced above. If, even as an average driver, you were to lose one end of the car or the other, which end would you want to lose? If you lose the back, steer into it. If you lose the front, that can be a whole different kettle of fish - not impossible, but certainly more challenging in a FWD car, as you can't use the power through the back to offset.

Ray

i think i would get all confused though as my track car is a RWD beemer and my gut reaction to correcting a slide would be based on my track experience !! there again i suspect with modern cars and ESP you have to be doing somethign very stupid to loose the back end (unless you hit ice then you havent got much hope anyway !)