Anyone tempted?,I was looking into them problem is when you need new batteries will cost you the EARTH,maybe when hydrogen arrives

Edited 14 December, 201015 yr by seboni121

Not interested at all!

Not interested at all!

I have written today to my MP on this very subject asking her to support hydrogen fuel cell research, rather than this hairbrained scheme.

I will not go into the detail that I went into earlier today because we are all intelligent enough on this forum to know this is a non-starter.

Regards

Tony

Could be I'm missing something but I never been able to accept that Electric Cars in their current form can ever work in volume. Yes they may have a place with some city slicker to get to and from his office but a non starter for joe public. 100 miles range is so limited. The thought of 'charging points' along the city roads and at offices/works is bad enough in itself. People could have charging points in their garage OK but what about those who do not have a garage. What about those in town or street houses? what about Flat dwellers? It gets dafter. Then there's the £22k or so for the privilege of owning one of these inferior machines. Why I wonder are the motor industry wasting their money going down this route? Could it be because they know it will never threaten their current operation of building normal cars?

I'd rather pay £5000 more and NOT have one!!

My shoes are bigger than these cars!! :yes:

Could be I'm missing something but I never been able to accept that Electric Cars in their current form can ever work in volume. Yes they may have a place with some city slicker to get to and from his office but a non starter for joe public. 100 miles range is so limited. The thought of 'charging points' along the city roads and at offices/works is bad enough in itself. People could have charging points in their garage OK but what about those who do not have a garage. What about those in town or street houses? what about Flat dwellers? It gets dafter. Then there's the £22k or so for the privilege of owning one of these inferior machines. Why I wonder are the motor industry wasting their money going down this route? Could it be because they know it will never threaten their current operation of building normal cars?

Right now its just paying lip service to being green. These cars would as you say, only suit people in specific areas over small distances. I suppose its a start, albeit a slightly naff one. There just is no substitute for spending 5 mins filling your tank and going another 600 miles compared to spending a few hours charging up for a 100 miles at best.

When the fuel starts to run dry and prices get even more stupid than they are now, then its worth big money investing in this technology. Far too many oil companies and car manufacturers control politics at the moment as far as green issues go.

For inner city driving battery cars can work even now. As for the rest of us I expect hydrogen fuel cells will be the way it goes.

Not sure how the government will stea....rob....no whats the word 'obtain revenue' from this new technology. Taxing fuel is easy to do and the cheating swine even pretend to justify it. Fuel is currently ridiculously cheap.....the tax on it however isnt. Maybe we will have a "car electricity duty"............I am ranting again arent I....sorry about that

Edited 14 December, 201015 yr by raisbeck

Right now its just paying lip service to being green. These cars would as you say, only suit people in specific areas over small distances. I suppose its a start, albeit a slightly naff one. There just is no substitute for spending 5 mins filling your tank and going another 600 miles compared to spending a few hours charging up for a 100 miles at best.

When the fuel starts to run dry and prices get even more stupid than they are now, then its worth big money investing in this technology. Far too many oil companies and car manufacturers control politics at the moment as far as green issues go.

For inner city driving battery cars can work even now. As for the rest of us I expect hydrogen fuel cells will be the way it goes.

Not sure how the government will stea....rob....no whats the word 'obtain revenue' from this new technology. Taxing fuel is easy to do and the cheating swine even pretend to justify it. Fuel is currently ridiculously cheap.....the tax on it however isnt. Maybe we will have a "car electricity duty"............I am ranting again arent I....sorry about that

Easy just a hydrogen tax and increase duty on electricity provided at charging points.

Leccy cars are a stop gap till fuel cell can be 'tamed', which I believe is James Mays belief, I am inclined to go with that theory.

Leccy cars dont have the range for and serious use, they are overtly expensive( the govt have to subsidise to get people to buy), & it appears that the batteries are only leased, so you dont actually own the full car.

As has also been identified the manufacture of these batteries are not exactly green, I would guess that the carbon footprint in making the batteries & disposal of used , oblierates the saving that the car makes. ( even in hybrid mode)

So I think i will stick with the devils fuelled cars ( Diesel ) till fuel cell cars are properly available ( if that occurs before i have to give up my licence )

Leccy cars, non starter in spite of the hype! Where is all the electricity going to come from. Plugging in is just going to cause too much CO2 and further strain our already strained power stations. Interestingly, the governments own electric car and hydrogen car study released just 6 months ago states that electric cars have no long term future and will not meet the travelling publics needs for the forseeable future. On hydrogen they have said it will be at least 20 years before a viable hydrogen car without the current problems is possible and even longer before they solve the hydrogen storage and production problems for a nationwide delivery system. Vw believe it will be 30 years before hydrogen is any use. And then there's the cost! That's why most car manufacturers are focusing on better diesel design and actually winding down petrol engine R & D. Yes I know, very high compression petrol engines are supposed to be in the offing soon but they are encountering too many problems at the moment to the point some manufacturers have abandoned them. Most countries have a ban on VHC petrol engines due to the dangerously high and very harmful partulates they emmit. However, the 100mpg diesel is just around the corner, that will be totally as quiet as a petrol engine, will use centrifuge particulate filter instead of DPF, and will run for ever and a day on the smell of a diesel rag. Rejoice!!

Edited 15 December, 201015 yr by Estate Man

Estate man may well be right about a frugal diesel engine but we are talking many years before any of this technology is adopted in large enough volumes to make a difference. Diesel is already 5p a ltr dearer than petrol and refineries tell us they are right up to capacity on production of diesel. This means that if the trend is for people and manufacturers to convert to diesel powered cars the refineries are all going to have to invest in the production of diesel in larger quantities. Then don't we all know the cost will rocket with £2 to £3 a litre being the most likely way the government will solve the green issue.

Estate man may well be right about a frugal diesel engine but we are talking many years before any of this technology is adopted in large enough volumes to make a difference. Diesel is already 5p a ltr dearer than petrol and refineries tell us they are right up to capacity on production of diesel. This means that if the trend is for people and manufacturers to convert to diesel powered cars the refineries are all going to have to invest in the production of diesel in larger quantities. Then don't we all know the cost will rocket with £2 to £3 a litre being the most likely way the government will solve the green issue.

Hi Horkin, enjoying the new car still I hope.

Yes, you make a valid point concerning diesel production. I am not a fuel expert but I am currently following developments in this area in the State and Australia where my families live. The saving grace for diesel is the increasing adoption of bio diesel. More and more of this is being produced. Mostly this comes from bio fuel crops produced especially for this process. This process will grow further but the latest 'brewing' technology for making bio diesel from bugs is also being further developed and will be the way forward as it does not require the use of agricultural land. It probably is still a bit further off until we see that at the pumps but it is coming. It will be cleaner, and will have pretty much the same calorific value as dino diesel. The other brilliant thing about bio diesel is it's ability to be produced much more cheaply due to using much less energy and therefore producing much less CO2 during manufacture. To put this into perspective, dino diesel uses 80% more energy to produce one gallon of diesel as you can get out of it. So as a society we get nothing out of it except some portable energy and loads of CO2. Bio fuel diesel takes just 45% of that total energy to produce each gallon compared to dino fuel. So we get more out of it than we put in, lots more. That may sound controversial but it's true. It may vary from process to process but not by too much, surprisingly.

Contrary to popular belief, even crop produced bio diesel with it's very slightly lower calorific value does often give more mile per gallon. This is due to the extreme cleanliness of the fuel causing it to burn much better, and the way the fuel keeps the engine and fuel system very clean. It varies a bit from vehicle to vehicle but in the main that is true. Your engine runs at optimal efficiency all the time. For example, Dino diesel makes injectors very dirty lowering their efficiency and using more fuel ultimately. Not so with bio fuel. So it's an interesting world we live in at the moment regarding engine and fuel developement don't you think?

Edited 16 December, 201015 yr by Estate Man

Hi Horkin, enjoying the new car still I hope.

Yes, you make a valid point concerning diesel production. I am not a fuel expert but I am currently following developments in this area in the State and Australia where my families live. The saving grace for diesel is the increasing adoption of bio diesel. More and more of this is being produced. Mostly this comes from bio fuel crops produced especially for this process. This process will grow further but the latest 'brewing' technology for making bio diesel from bugs is also being further developed and will be the way forward as it does not require the use of agricultural land. It probably is still a bit further off until we see that at the pumps but it is coming. It will be cleaner, and will have pretty much the same calorific value as dino diesel. The other brilliant thing about bio diesel is it's ability to be produced much more cheaply due to using much less energy and therefore producing much less CO2 during manufacture. To put this into perspective, dino diesel uses roughly as much energy to produce one gallon of diesel as you can get out of it. So as a society we get nothing out of it except some portable energy and loads of CO2. Bio fuel diesel takes just 45% of the energy to produce each gallon compared to dino fuel. That may sound controversial but it's true. It may vary from process to process but not by too much, surprisingly.

Contrary to popular belief, even crop produced bio diesel with it's very slightly lower calorific value does often give more mile per gallon. This is due to the extreme cleanliness of the fuel causing it to burn much better, and the way the fuel keeps the engine and fuel system very clean. It varies a bit from vehicle to vehicle but in the main that is true. Your engine runs at optimal efficiency all the time. For example, Dino diesel makes injectors very dirty lowering their efficiency and using more fuel ultimately. Not so with bio fuel. So it's an interesting world we live in at the moment regarding engine and fuel developement don't you think?

Good points mate. Yes to answer your question I am loving driving the little Fabia. I wondered how I might miss my big 3 ltr juice guzzling BMW but that's not been the case. I actually find the little 3 pot Fabia great fun to drive, lovely high driving position with great vision from the driving seat which I find very relaxing. The mpg issue will always be the number one difference along with Tax and insurance benefits so its win, win, all the way....roll on summer

So what is it in the UK for a Nissan Leaf....about £25k less a £5k subsidy. That's £20k for a car that will do 100 miles. Just doesn't stack up. A VW Polo Ecomotive (for example) will do around 70mpg and can be bought for a jolly sight less, even secondhand. Having said that, I might consider the new Toyota Prius as it's a lot nicer looking than the Mark 1 and pays a decent amount of lip service to being green. Trouble is, I've driven a few Toyotas and they're just so, well, DULL. (and need fixing a lot at the mo).

So what is it in the UK for a Nissan Leaf....about £25k less a £5k subsidy. That's £20k for a car that will do 100 miles. Just doesn't stack up. A VW Polo Ecomotive (for example) will do around 70mpg and can be bought for a jolly sight less, even secondhand. Having said that, I might consider the new Toyota Prius as it's a lot nicer looking than the Mark 1 and pays a decent amount of lip service to being green. Trouble is, I've driven a few Toyotas and they're just so, well, DULL. (and need fixing a lot at the mo).

Interesting points Paul. I agree. I've also never ever had a reliable Toyota...they've all been disasters on a grand scale. However, I think I was just unlucky....twice!!

Interesting points Paul. I agree. I've also never ever had a reliable Toyota...they've all been disasters on a grand scale. However, I think I was just unlucky....twice!!

Before Fabias we had a corrolla.....C reg. It was brilliant. Totally reliable even after being mostly submerged on one occasion. Finally ended its days as a trade in with 140000 on the clock.

I cant see hybrids as the future. Just smaller cars with efficient engines beat the large hybrids. Those larger hybrids are for the rich to feel better when they negotiate those tricky speed bumps at Waitrose in their 4 x 4.

Electric cars have massive ground to make up not to mention associated infrastructure before they become a viable option. Cant see it happening myself. Hydrogen at the pump, thats the future I reckon. Same convenience and range of a diesel/petrol with completely clean exhaust.

As far as charging goes. Any electricity production produces Co2 in this country. The future will sadly have to be nuclear reactors as out own standard power production facilities wear out. Renewables just wont cope imo. Most of these electric cars will charge at night when demand is low.

Like most new ideas, we wont convert to it unless we are forced to, or its cheaper....or the government works out a way to make us change and pocket large wads of cash