1.4tdi smoking and erratic idle

[buckers0]

Calling any diesel experts out there...

I have recently purchased a 1.4tdi fabia mark 2, 2008 year, with 39500 on the clock. It has full service main dealer service history, and starts and stops perfect, on the first turn of the key. It is also an none dpf model. However it has some symptoms which can't be right.

Occasionally it has a very vibratey idle. The dealer told me this is due to the quirky 3 cylinder, but 98% of the time it is smooth enough, put when it does go ' off beat' it vibrates the whole dash and feels uncomfortable to be in, nearly as if it is missing on a cylinder. The idle speed though appear fine, i.e. not particularly varying.

When you've been driving it, particularly after say a descent on the overrun, then put the pedal down, it belches out a lot of blue smoke, which quickly enough disperses, but is embarassing and i can see motorcyclists/cyclists fanning the fumes away. A mate stood behind the car said it smelt of unburnt diesel. The smoking has been very regular this last few days, but last week seemed to have eased off.

Its mpg isn't that good. If you are even moderatley heavy on the pedal, it does mid 40's. The best i have got is 57mpg, but that was on a slight down hill run to work at literally keeping it to sub 2000 rpm and not going above 60mph.

It doesn't seem to be using oil though. The oil and filter have been changed, the egr cleaned ( it was heavily sooted up), loads of injector clean put in the fuel filter/through the intake. If you were to hold the foot flat to the floor, it redlines at 5000 rpm and won't go any higher.

Any ideas please? I'm desperate to have a reliable car, which is what i got it for, but fear its gonna have to be got rid of. The main dealer i got it from (not a Skoda dealer) had it for a week, but seem to be out of there depth re bottoming it. I hoping sales of goods legislation covers it, as i have had it a month now, having let them know from the outset about it smoking. But no matter how driven a 39000 mile car should not be like this.

Thanks

[GeneralPurpose]

Hi Buckers0, Good choice of car. I have one too.

Firstly, don't rev it to 5000rpm. The redline starts are 4400rpm and this diesel engine doesn't like going much over that, and mostly on any diesel it's not good to do that.

Secondly, check the airfilter is clean. You describe symptoms that might suggest it is very dirty or damp/wet. If it's wet, or has been wet at some point, your injectors may be in need of replacing as they can become damaged. It sounds as if the engine is overfuelling.

Thirdly, check the engine crankcase breather is not blocked (not uncommon on diesels) and all the associated vacuum pipes in the 'breathing department' are clear.

It sounds as if you are losing a cylinder at idle sometimes, as you suggest. This could be a sticking/damaged injector. Another thing that could cause it to smoke is a sticking EGR. The fact is was cleaned recently doesn't mean it's ok. It could be worn out or faulty. The engine will smoke if it sticks.

These are just some points to check and without seeing the car it's difficult to be precise. In your case I would take the car back to the dealer you bought it from and tell them to fix it or it they cannot you are going to take it to a Skoda dealer who will have the proper diagnostic equipment to sort it. And of course the bill will go to them!

Good luck and let us know what you find.

[buckers0]

Thankyou both for replying and doing so, so promptly.

I have previously checked the airfilter, and it certainly appeared clean and dry (though must admit supplying dealer said it would be fully serviced prior to sale...the air filter, and fuel filter defo had not been changed, i thought this would have been the minimum).

I'm interested re the egr cleaning. I must admit, i wonder if this is still sticking. But i do feel that perhaps an intermittent fault on one of the injectors is the cause.

Anyway, whereas normally i buy private cars, and service them myself, with this one i part exed the other, buying from trade, to avoid the hassle due to a complicated home life at the mo. For this reason (and the car came with some warranty) i admit defeat at the moment; its now with the skoda main dealer, but i'll happily update once i find out what's wrong.

I was pleased that whilst it didn't do a lot of smoking on the drive down to the dealer this am, i initially blipped the throttle, with normal/not much smoke, as the technician watched. However as i talked to him, with it idling, just prior to handing over the keys, i blipped it and sure enough, engulfed him in a blue haze, on cue!

[seboni121]

As Estateman said its a cracking engine and soon while be breathing much better soon

[buckers0]

well, we got the dealer report this am.

it turns out that the turbo oil seals have gone and due to this intercooler is dripping oil out.

#notimpressed.com

if it had 139000 miles i might understand it,but 39000 with main dealer history i.e. good oil should have been put in and regularly?

between main dealer and supplying dealer its going to get sorted but im annoyed. i'll post their progress/how good the car becomes

[philhoward]

If its been driven very gently for those 39,000 miles, then they can get "gummed" up - even diesels need a bit of a burn from time to time otherwise you get these sort of issues.

Not your fault, by the way, but even without a DPF, all engines like an "Italian tune-up" from time to time.

[buckers0]

I have tried to 'give it some' when the engine was warmed up, as part of my drive to work is on the motorway. I thought the same, about blowing the cobwebs off it so to speak.

My other motor, an octavia 1.9 pd tdi began run a bit 'power stifled so i did this style of driving, giving it a bit more boot/keeping it in gear longer, and sure enough it cleared it out/all was well again.

But on this one, if skoda are correct, then its more than just gummed up. Once they decide who is paying for the fix, if i keep it i'll be interested to know exactly what cures it/whether or not they are right!

[buckers0]

i got the car back yesterday and yes, brand new oem part turbo and intercooler fitted. They warned me that it might be giving out a little smoke for a while, until the remainder of the oil got burned out of the exhaust system, which is fair enough. For a mile or two i noticed this.

The car itself runs operationally as good as before (sic) i.e. still goes well, not better or worse, starts first time, pulls the same. However its early days, but i still think its no better than before, particularly on the over run or after idling leaving plumes of white/blue smoke, which after a couple of bursts, clears, the exhaust gases appearing to clear up for a short while. I have now put about 70 miles on since yesterday, deliberatley going for a longer run this am, to first warm it up, then give it a bit more to blow webs off. The economy isn't any better either, hitting late 40's early 50's at best so far.

I'll certainly give it another 50 miles or so, but am sure its burnt any residual oil off and am beginning to think we still haven't got to route of the problem.

The warranty company are not gonna be impressed, me neither. To my knowledge they haven't changed any egr gubbings, but they did put diagnostic machine on it. I am also wondering if its something mechanically basic like the rings gone on one of the cylinders, but would have thought the smoking would be more persistent/continuous?

I'll update again as this progresses; any ideas?

[GeneralPurpose]

Might be valve stem seals need replacing. Easy job and costs peanuts. But could be something more significant I guess. Need to see the motor to tell.

[buckers0]

Hi, i have done valve stem oil seals years ago on old fords; Just how easy is it on this engine/is their any DIY guides to do this? I take it the cam shaft would have to come out/it would be a pretty big strip down job?

[buckers0]

i checked the pipes/breathers etc, and have blown them out with an airline. They were fine.

I have cleaned the egr again, just to make sure and it is perfectly free and raising/lowering fine under vaccuum.

I have noticed that there is no smoke whatsoever on start up, (so probably not valve guide seals) nor most of the time when driving at say motorway speed (or at least not obviously).

I even tried swapping the maf sensor out of my octavia, but this hasn't changed anything; (however unplugging it had little noticeable effect.

However it is particularly prevailant when on the overrun or having been tootling around at low speed locally, then when one puts the foot down, say pulling out of a junction, it belches out.

I did a run up to Newcastle (100m each way) yesterday, iwth the whole family at a brisk pace; no issues and went well, giving just short of 50 mpg. But it barely ever goes above this mpg. Elsewhere on this forum, owners state getting 60's and early 70mpg. Short of freefallling out of the sky with wind behind it, mine will never achieve this.

I'm still of the belief that it is fuel delivery related i.e. a dodgy injector or fuel pump problem - overfueling? but i've had enough and it goes back to main dealer tomorrow.

[buckers0]

Good news at last!

Skoda rang me yesterday to say diagnostics showed a faulty injector! I questioned if diagnostics first time didn't pick this up, but they said because it was intermittent that it hadn't showed a fault then; ahem...i was of the belief that the ecu stores fault codes, i.e. if at any point it was mis running then it would have picked that up?

Anyway, he went on to explain that they were sure that the turbo replacement was needed too, and that changing it had made it smoke less. I beg to differ. At least i have a spare turbo and intercooler now, as i'm sure these were fine, there being no change in its performance after replacement. So an internet auction site might be used soon, or i'll keep them as spares!

Anyway the warranty have paid for the turbo, intercooler, the new injector and the door window motor mechanism (not previously mentinoned here, but i'll just comment on it in a sec, by all means moderators please place this seperately if useful to others). I'm just pleased i personally didn't have to fork out, as the bill must be in the region of £2000, so i'd have been crying into my cornflakes.

I drove it home earlier, and indeed though i have only covered about 8 miles back home, it appeared to be running fine, with no smoke, no lumpy idle and even better....mpg in tail end rush hour traffic, 3rd gear mostly, with a bit of hill travel home, 56mpg! So looks like this will be heading towards 'true owners mpg' figures per this site and honest john.

I was hoping they would leave me the faulty injector, as i have a family friend who is a diesel injection specialist, so would have passed it to him for 'fettling', but they told me it was an exchange item (?)

Regarding the window motor, from the master electric window controller only, on the drivers door, when operating the passenger window, sometimes its worked fine, sometimes it had a mind of its own, going down in 'stutters' or else not at all, or going up, when pressing down etc. I checked the harness and door connector within the bellows, all appearing fine. It turns out that the drivers door has an ecu type box attached to the motor, which also is the brains for the drivers and passenger door, and this is a common fault, per the dealer. This is changed now, and alls well. When i was investigating it, i did find small bits of glass in the bottom of the door, i.e. it has had a new window in it at some time, so perhaps water ingress was the original culprit, but i notice when it rains and the door is opened, the door handle and switch do very quickly seem to always get a covering as if poorly shielded.

Thanks in particular to estate man, as i thought an injector might be the place to look, which you also suggested. Pity they didn't listen when i first took it in!

[GeneralPurpose]

Great news buckers. The KAM (Keep Alive Memory) doesn't record and store all operational faults such as a faulty injector. Diags will conclude an injector fault from a number of sources in the engine and depending on what diag machine is used and what ecu is being interogated it may show a direct injector malfunction. at the time of diag. But you now have a brilliant car that will serve you well for the next few year and it will sip the fuel very very economically. Well done for pursuing the problem. Keep posting to let us all know how you are getting on with the car.

[Jabozuma]

Good thread! As I was reading it for the first few pages I was mumbling under mu breath *injectors, injectors, injectors...* hoping to make a post when I finally manage to get back to the end of the thread but you beat me to it . I am glad you you got it solved without having to fork out for new parts or labour!

Warranty is a good thing - I extended my one on new order FabiavRS to 5 years

Edited 25 September, 2012 by Jabozuma