At thr risk of coming over all James May, I just read the interesting real world parts of April's EVO, and again it struck me I'm getting old. It occurred toi me that these guys must be hammering the crap out of the hot hatches they were testing, as in order to make the handling assessments they are reporting can only mean they are driving around between 70 and 90 mph on twisty A and wider B roads. Any slower, and they wont be close enough to any limit of grip for them to be able to justify their comments (i.e. they'd simply have to be making the review up).

It also got me thinking that the petrol VRS Octy, good though it is, is ultimately a bit pointless unless it's remapped, and has an RARB fitted. Without those, the Diesel vRS is much more practical. But, a remapped and RARB'd petrol is going to a pretty quick machine, IME easily far too quick for UK roads anyway, from experience, it's all too easy to get into license threatening territory. I guess I'm missing the thrill of small car and small power. All the on the limit shenannigans without the need for warp speed. Cars are just too damned grippy and powerful these days to be any real (safe) fun.

They're heavier too which means that they need to be that much more powerful to get the performance of yesteryear.

Octy has never really been a hot hatch. It's just a bit big and sensible.

Owners (the majority) don't want cars that take skill to drive. They might say they do but as soon as it goes wrong they'll be pointing the finger everywhere but at themselves. Manufacturers won't take the risk of bad publicity so they fit massive road roller tires and set the chassis to understeer.

Edited 1 March, 201313 yr by Aspman

I'd definitely agree with this and cars these days can be too competent and flattering to the driver. it seems to be a trend that correlates with cars getting bigger wheels and fatter tyres, pushing the level of available grip higher and higher. I remember how silly you had to be in my old Scooby to break traction, even in the wet, and that was with good old-fashioned mechanical grip. Nowadays, there are also "driver aids" fitted too. Now I'd imagine it would take even more and then when it does let go you have to hope that you have enough time and space (and skill!) to recover it.

A quick car is not necessarily a fun car

Chris

A quick car is not necessarily a fun car

Chris

As I always say.

I took my 740i to work the other day. I live in the middle of nowhere and I'm about 13 miles from work. I have a 2 mile straight single track (almost) road which is falling to pieces and bumpy..in the Cee'd. I can just about run at 50mph in it. In the 7..I was doing 70 without realising..as it soaked up the bumps etc. Then I have some pretty tight bends, which in the Cee'd can be fun. In the 7 it was a bit boat like, but actually still a bit fun. Especially with RWD! Then its onto a A road for about 6 miles. Get stuck behind a lorry and there is almost no hope of overtaking due to bends, traffic etc. In the 7 I just put my foot down, overtook 4 or 5 cars and the lorry and done. No fuss or drama. Sounded epic and reminded me just how good it is to have power. Overall the Cee'd has no power but can be quite entertaining..the big 7 has stupid power..and is fun in a completely different way.

You have described what most of these GTi / vRS / RS road models are really about.

The power is there to help overtake or accelerate quickly to get out of trouble.

The crop of high performance cars are not suitable for todays very badly / if any maintained roads plus the high volume of traffic to use the performance provided, you can only really use on a track.

True, in fact in truth, my vrs is only really fun when it's accelerating; either overtaking slower traffic, or embarrassing other brands of hot hatch drivers. Trouble is, overtaking isn't really "fun", and often borne of frustration and impatience, and there's always another truck to pass, another Renault Scenic bumbling along. I regularly drive from my home in S wales up to Shrewsbury to see my folks, and know almost every bend of the A465 / A49 from Abergavenny, Hereford, Shrewsbury and I can save about 15 minutes from multiple banzai overtakes, but at a cost of about 4-5 mpg if I just cruised along gently with the flow. That, plus embarrassing other semi-performance cars is ultimately pointless and gets boring after a while! I guess I'm just a sucker for having the capability to do something, even if I don't use it or need it; rather like owning a Range Rover when you live in a city perhaps.

Going back to the EVO article on hot hatches, it seems that 260bhp is the new 150 bhp from 10-15 years ago, and that everything does sub 6.5s 0-60 . A remapped TSI with 250 or so bhp is quick, too quick even; but not that much faster in the real world than the average 2 litre CR diesel.

Evo test their cars up at the Bedford autodrome and yes they do rag the balls of the cars. I wrote to them about something ages ago and one of their old writers Richard Meaden invited me up to a test day up there. Trouble with that mag is that they are writing for millionaires in the main and are pretty sniffy about more mainstream and good value stuff. They were the only people to trash the Toyota GT86/Subaru BRZ.

Good points stever750, that is why I bought a 106 Rallye. A 1.3 engine you really have to work, quite soft suspension and 175 wide tyres with big profiles.

You can break traction from 30 by backing off the throttle. On a open clear sighted corner you can go from grip to slip all at very slow speeds compared to modern cars.

Problem is you just can't make something like that now, or will the Up! GT be it?... To drive a 106 Rallye everyday over a long distance after experiencing modern cars, you would have to be a sadist.

Matt - This is the reason I dropped my EVO subscription many years ago. It all went London Banker. No cars I could ever afford even when they are 10+ years old!

True, in fact in truth, my vrs is only really fun when it's accelerating; either overtaking slower traffic, or embarrassing other brands of hot hatch drivers. Trouble is, overtaking isn't really "fun", and often borne of frustration and impatience, and there's always another truck to pass, another Renault Scenic bumbling along. I regularly drive from my home in S wales up to Shrewsbury to see my folks, and know almost every bend of the A465 / A49 from Abergavenny, Hereford, Shrewsbury and I can save about 15 minutes from multiple banzai overtakes, but at a cost of about 4-5 mpg if I just cruised along gently with the flow. That, plus embarrassing other semi-performance cars is ultimately pointless and gets boring after a while! I guess I'm just a sucker for having the capability to do something, even if I don't use it or need it; rather like owning a Range Rover when you live in a city perhaps.

I find overtaking quite fun, it challenges the driving skill to pass car/s without danger to other drivers. Sometimes it's just a no go and that's just life really. Know when to back off to have fun for another day .

I don't see it as embarrassing drivers or cars, gets a bit personal. Don't particularly fancy that on the road anymore. I overtake you on a roads then you put your foot down and keep up, be my guest to re overtake. I'll even move to one side for more visibility if you want to re overtake my spirited driving speed.

All is just a bit of fun at the end of the day. I'm sure I'm not the fastest driver nor have the fastest car on the road so no point trying to be

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To drive a 106 Rallye everyday over a long distance after experiencing modern cars, you would have to be a sadist.

I drive mine every day and love it. Admittedly if I was to drive from here in Scarborough to London, I'd use the FRV with cruise and heated leather as I'm daft, but not that daft.

I occasionally miss the power of my remapped vRS, but to be honest, it's probably only for 5% of the time - those occasions where I wanted to overtake or prove a point. However, I have much more fun in the Rallye on a daily basis and corners are now a joy.

The FRV is miles better than the vRS at transporting three kids, all the stuff associated with kids six and under and is much better built too. The 2.2 diesel engine is a real peach and again when moving small people around I couldn't play in the vRS anyway.

Having said all this, I am still planning on going back to a powerful hatch when kids seats allow as I'm vain, shallow and childish when it comes to cars. I get a lot of enjoyment from driving something that I think looks good, is pretty quick and can win the odd willy waving contest. Sad but true. :think:

I used to have a 1.4 corsa sport many years ago and it only had a set of lowering springs on it and it was a right giggle to drive even when i got it wrong one night and put it in a field, but i wasn't going fast enough to do any damage

Its nowhere near as fast as my VRS but it was more fun to drive at legal speeds down country roads, pulled out to overtake a couple of times in VRS and looked at speedo and thought best slow down a tad it gets there that fast it can be an easy licence looser

I don't see it as embarrassing drivers or cars, gets a bit personal.

I don't see it getting personal. I think a few of the drivers I've overtaken over the last couple of years might be embarrassed though.

Just imagine sitting in your plush BMW 5 series, on a straight road and being over-taken by a Skoda........a Skoda Pickup.........actually, a bright yellow Skoda Pickup. That day I overtook 1 lorry and 7 cars in one hit, totally straight road (the new one between Eye and Spalding). Given that 3 of those 7 suddenly realised they'd been overtaken by a novelty car, I suspect there was a touch of embarrassment there ;)

Got it one RainbowFire How are you by the way?

I don't see it getting personal. I think a few of the drivers I've overtaken over the last couple of years might be embarrassed though.

Just imagine sitting in your plush BMW 5 series, on a straight road and being over-taken by a Skoda........a Skoda Pickup.........actually, a bright yellow Skoda Pickup. That day I overtook 1 lorry and 7 cars in one hit, totally straight road (the new one between Eye and Spalding). Given that 3 of those 7 suddenly realised they'd been overtaken by a novelty car, I suspect there was a touch of embarrassment there ;)

Had I been Mr 5 series I would have at least smiled. Unless everyone drives with their cocks then I'm not sure where embarrassment comes into it.

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IMO a much better edition from EVO, April 2013, no. 181

I hope they can keep this type of coverage going.

george

Had I been Mr 5 series I would have at least smiled. Unless everyone drives with their cocks then I'm not sure where embarrassment comes into it.

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Agreed. I'll drive at the speed I want. If someone overtakes it'll be because they choose to drive at a higher speed than me. Hardly cause for embarrassment IMO!

Depending on speed/execution I might tut or something, but not be embarrassed!

Just read cover to cover, EVO '205' #2,  February 2015

 

Cracking Edition.

Particularly interesting the article on the Audi RS Q3, Mercedes GLA45 AMG & Porsche Macan S.

& the Twin Test with the Bentley Continental GT Speed v S63 AMG Coupe.

 

What a piece of kit the Abarth 695 Biposto is IMO.