Processed Biodiesel

[Mansars]

Hi All,

I wonder if you can help?

I am looking to find out if the 1.2 TDi will run on processed Biodiesel?

Th reason I ask is that I do over 30k per year and with prices at nearly £1.50 here in NI I am seriously looking for an alternative....also a friend has one of these and runs his 1.9 SDI fabia on between 50 (winter) and 100% (summer) with no problems.

Especially when hes producng it for about 20p per litre and running his home heating oil on it!

Cheers

[Igloo Vindaloo]

The handbook for my Greenline II says "Do not use Biodiesel", which is clearly silly as the regular diesel you get at the pumps here (in Germany) contains "up to 7% biodiesel".

My brother set up his own diesel plant, which runs on old chip fat.

So I would be interested to know the answer.

[Ootohere]

If you are able to use 'Used Veg' oil (WVO Bio, 'Waste vegetable oil)

or even 'new Veg oil' (SVO, New from the cash and carry, Straight vegetable oil) @ £1 a litre or less, in your vehicles,

you will be needing to look at the HMRC sites for the UK user.

(do not use Palm oil if Veg oil can be run, with dual tanks and heaters or filters..)

Private use, 2,500 litres a year. etc. So not a Company car or one insured for business use..

Keep records of your Bio production. & milage and usage.

50 mpg, 30,000 miles would need 2728 litres,

so mixing with diesel for cold weather will be OK, keep you under the 2,500 litres.

Question always is, if you are driving 30,000 miles a year do you have time to collect cheap oil for processing and the hassle

involved, can you get free regular supplies or do you need to buy it?

or is it easier to do a few more hours well paid work and buy fuel easily out of a filling station.?

george

[Guest]

The problem with using large amounts of bio diesel in modern cr engines is that it blocks up the fuel system. Especially the fuel filter and some other engine components suffer. My PD engine will run on upto 10% bio but anymore and it looses performance and coughs to a stop. It is also harmful to some engine seals in the fuel system at high density quantities such as the injector seals. Don't use it unless you have your car fettled to allow high density use or you may well regret it.

[Mansars]

Cheers. George

Yeah, as I said a friend has a production kit and he gets all his oil from his nearest chippy for free.... As it costs to take away.

2278 @ £1.45 = £3303.10.... Compared to 2278 @ £o.25 = £569.50

£2733 difference!

Estate Man, from what I have found (Internet research... Including scholarly articles) the reason that the fuel filter clogs is due to the cleansing of the system due to the slightly more acidic oil, not the oil itself, unles you haven't filtered it from the fryer. A lot if the research suggests only upto a 5-10% drop in power & 5-6% drop in fuel economy when using over 30% mixes.

Really interested to hear anything about how the DPF would be affected by this type of fuel.

Edited 11 March, 2013 by Mansars

[Ootohere]

Filtering the particles from the oil is the easy part, well possible requiring up to 3 filtrations..

You have to remove the animal fats because those are your problem.

When you heat the Veg oil you melt the Animal fats. so Filtration is the art of the production from WVO.

(do not use Palm Oil, hard fat it will solidify when cold)

Removing the H20 is what takes the time.

That can not be hurried

(lots of water in chip frying fat)

Chip shops in NI giving it away must make the difference,

elsewhere in the UK Used oil is a valuable products and requires

to me removed by Approved operators.

(here the Waste oil is bought from the first user, the first user does not expect to pay for uplift.)

There is a good section on Alternative fuels and BIO in Difflock Forum.

See the 'stickies' in the Section.

Lots of experienced WVO users.

sadly the Professional BIO Oil producer is no longer on the Forum

http://www.difflock.com

george

[Mansars]

Thanks George. Spoke to the producer this morning and he agrees the amount if water is amazing.... He triple filters his and takes extra time to rid the oil of water and soap before using.

I'll look at the link now.

[pipsyp]

I had a friend that used to run an old Vauxhall Corsa 1.5 TD on reclaimed veg oil from a chippy. Was strange as it actually used to smell like a chippy every time he drove off.

I think in older more primative cars it wasnt so much a problem, unfortunately with the advent of direct injection and high pressure high accuracy fuel systems, DPFs and the like this sort of thing just is very difficult to do with a new car....personally I think its likely you'll cause the car more harm than good but admire your efforts to beat the system....diesel costs have gotten ridiculous.

[philhoward]

I don't think you can use any common rail diesels on "chip fat" - or any veg oil. They only run on "upto" 10% bio because 90% is normal fossil fuel. Even PD engines are touch and go IMHO due to the increased pressures over old schools lumps like the old 1.9 and Vauxhall 1.5 (add in the PSA 1.7/1.9 - but only if a Bosch pump)

[Ootohere]

When you do find a vehicle that runs on it, like a simple basic Diesel, you need to look at the economics and work invloved.

If you do need to do 100 miles average a day for 300 days a year @ 50 mpg, thats 600 gallons.

even running 50/50 with diesel you need 300 gallons processed..

(so £7.00 for diesel & £1.00 for the BIO if you can produce at that cost for 100 miles)

So thats back to over 500 gallons of WVO (waste vegetable oil) you need to collect a process.

Because of the waste. Water and gunge you need to get rid of.

Averaged out for 50 weeks a year you need to get 10 gallons of waste oil every week.

It has to be done as a hobby and takes time, not just a £600 machine and 25 pence a litre for oil.

Personally IMO, £600 is better spent buying an old Merc.

100 miles a day in an economic Diesel costs £14 in diesel.

Again personally i would rather work an extra hour working and earning, rather than mess around with Waste Oil,

washing filters etc. It is a total PITA.

You get the barrels & taps for drainage of the water, and filters cheap enough, the whole thing is messy to do and you need heating to stop the storage and oil process from going cold.

Electric.

Or are you going to run WVO to provide heating.

Alternative ,

If you run SVO bought fresh in containers, clean and easier.

& a car that runs straight Veg Oil, it save 50 pence on a litre.

(even buying Diesel and running a mix saves money, not if you are spending on car Filters and engine failure tho.)

Buy Vegetable oil cash. not Credit Card or Loyalty card and paper trails.

Remember the HMRC & the 2500 litres a year limit.

george

[Mansars]

Thanks George,

I do 146 miles per day commuting to and from the office and sadly its a salaried job that doesnt have overtime....just TOIL if your lucky enough to get it signed off.

So the time cost could be a factor, although from what I am being told its only really getting the oil that takes up the time as the kit I put up earlier can be set off on a timer so done overnight...or left to it for a few hours.

I have oil burning central heating so it could always come in useful for that too.

I have also been looking into the waste products and these seem to be recylclable too ie to make briquettes/logs for the fire/burner.

From what I have found out from hunting around the internet the past few nights is that the VAG 1900 SDi engine is suitable...so long as it has a Bosch Pump......so was thinking a nice MK1 Fabia or even a felicia to start with.

As mine is only just over a year old and still with 4 years warranty left I think I leave my own with Dino for now.