DPF top up - flashing glow plug warning

[Skodawally]

Hi all. I've read all forums, etc. re topping up DPF on Mk1 140 diesel (other engines are not affected) so up to speed on fluids (i.e. not Ad-blue, etc.) and got prices (astronomical).

Given that all dealers are asking around £52 a litre for this stuff, can I get away with a single litre for now rather than the 4 needed to fully top it up? It's going soon, I'm skint and as it seems easy to do I'm happy to keep topping it up as it needs it, assuming it will kill the warning light on the dash.

Also, still a bit unsure whether the bottle will have the right 'connection' to fit with the neck of the filler hole on the DPF itself. If anybody has any experience it would be great.

As this is a regular query for these cars I might take a few photos as I do it and post them on here once it's done, for anyone else with a similar problem.

 

Any help appreciated.

 

[jimbof]

One of the threads on here I posted a link to the VW technical description of the system, it is a PDF and worth readiing.

You put the fluid in the tank in the boot (not into the DPF directly, which forms part of the exhaust system).

The VW system it seems has a level sensor in the tank (unlike the equivalent age Citroen /  Peugeot system which just "counted" the fluid out) - So I guess you might be able to top it up.  I'm not what you need to do re: clearing any codes though.

 

Note I have no first-hand experience of the VAG system.

 

Be interesting to know what codes you get from scanning with VCDS when the light is flashing (like your car is doing currently).

[Skodawally]

Thanks Jimbof. Local Skoda tell me they've only ever sold it as a 4 x 1ltr order, but they would wouldn't they... they said that Audi have done it in the past as 1 x 4ltrs, which sounds more sensible, but less profitable.

If, as you say, there's a level guage in there, as long as I take it above that it seems as if it should be ok - but my reading of the many posts and techy stuff I've seen is that it's the pressure differential across the system that triggers the warning light and I wondered if adding a litre of fluid would be enough to alter that once I've regenerated the system?

I suppose I could always add more if a litre doesn't have the desired effect... I'm lucky enough to have access from the boot, as some people say they haven't and need to crawl around underneath (though still easy access).

Anybody know if I'm totally Pete Tong?

 

Otherwise I'll be paying the full £286 they want to do the job rather than £52 for a litre of stuff I suppose

[Skodawally]

Success! If anyone has the problem I had - flashing glow plug light after about 10 - 20 miles of every journey in a Superb Mk1 140 TDI (no other model) - don't panic. Having checked your brake lighting bulbs, switch etc. it is very likely your DPF is low on fuel. You might like to take it to have the codes checked to confirm, but I was confident enough it was this to have a go.

 

Problem is you will be asked for around £300 to have it done. It is an easy fix. The only tricky bit is parting with the cash for the Dealer supplied DPF fluid. Don't risk any alternative.

 

Firstly, take out the spare wheel. You will have a hump in the boot floor in the middle of the wheel well if yoyu have this car. Otherwise I understand you won't. To the right of the centre thresed hole for the wheel clamp boss you will see two black plastic oval shaped bungs. These will come out with a flat blade or your fingernails.

 

Under these are two black plastic caps. These have a little 'catch' at their base. These are off white plastic discs which spring across to hold the cap in place. To remove the cap, hold the top of the cap with pliers and push in the edge of the white catch with a screwdriver or something (I used an offset brake bleeding spanner, but anything you can push it with will work. The cap will come off easily. Do both caps as one is a filler and the other a breather to allow it to fill.

 

The fluid does not need to be under any pressure and you don't need a special tool as some say. it just pours in. You will need to rig up something to make sure every drop goes in... I used a half metre of 8mm fuel pipe bought for a couple of quid with a small 70p plastic funnel pushed into the end. I pushed the other end as a tight fit onto the filler hole, which is the one nearest to you.

 

Pour the stuff in. You will know the tank is empty by the sound of the fluid hitting the bottom... When you've finished push the cAPs back on until they click into place, replace the bungs, put the spare back and close the boot. Job done.

[Skodawally]

Episode 2 from above...

 

My original query was whether 1 litre was enough. It is, and it is so easy you might want to add how ever much you want, depending on your circumstances and top up from time to time as the light comes on. If you're keeping the car and have the cash go for 4 litres. Mine worked with 1 litre.

 

After filling up you need to regenerate the system. I took it for an hours run at 2500 + constant revs down the M1 at over 45 mph in 4th gear. The DPF has to get very hot for at least 20 minutes.You have to see this through as if you stop you will stop the regeneration cycle, so pick a quiet time with no known road works to do this.

 

Light now off and all's well with motor. better fuel consumption so far and running great.

 

Hope this helps anybody else with this problem. Main thing - don't be put off. It's not a lot harder than topping up the engine oil.

[Skodawally]

PS. 'DPF low on fuel' above should have read 'DPF low on fluid'. Don't put fuel in your DPF...

[jimbof]

glad it worked out for you!   Even though these systems are archaic they are still much better than the same age Peugeot system.  That injects a fixed amount every time you open the fuel cap (until the fuel cap sender loom fails - which they do - and then you end up with a stuffed DPF).  

Edited 19 October, 2013 by jimbof

[Cown]

Nice one mate!

[Skodawally]

My last post on this one. Just a warning. The fluid is not only expensive (£54 a litre) its really nasty. It is a great paint stripper and says something in french on the bottle about it being believed to be a carcinogen. Be very careful with it. Keep kids away. Wear protective gloves of some kind and throw them away afterwards. Cover any vulnerable paintwork in rags. Don't mistake it for your tea and give it a swig.

 

The helpful VAG people had stuck their label over the english warning label...  and it's ironic that we put a carcinogen into our exhaust system in order to keep the air clean

[northernsoultrucker]

Or do as I have just done have it remove turned off and turned up at the same time £300 it called preventative maintenance.

[Steve Moore]

Dont be fooled, VAG group cars use ADBLUE, Peugeot Citroen do not. I had the same warning lights in my Superb at 38K miles, Skoda wanted £295 and would not tell me anything about how the system works or is topped up. A friend who works in the Motor factor industry got me a 15 ltr tub of Adblue for about £14, I topped up the tank with about 5ltr using a small funnel and some rubber hose which took me about fifteen minutes, It lasted about 9000 miles before I had to do it again and it has been perfect, Just top it up and reset the dash warning light with a cheap OBD reader (Mine was £12) and its job done!

[BJM]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

This comes up time and time again.

 

The 2.0 TDi PD engine fitted to the Superb 1 does NOT use adblue.

 

Use it if you like, it wont clean out the ash from the DPF.

The DPF on the Mk I is too far from the exhaust manifold to run hot enough for the adblue to work, hence the specialist fluid used which acts as a catalyst to allow the ash to burn off at a lower temperature.

You might as well fill the tank with plain water (which is what adblue mainly is), all you are doing is kidding the level float that there is liquid in the tank, and resetting the ECU.

Eventually the DPF will block up - permanently.

[rotodiesel]

Correct.

 

Better still, don't buy a PD engined car with a DPF.

 

rotodiesel.

[oh_superb]

Adblue is used to neutralise NOx emissions and turn them into harmless Nitrogen and Oxygen.  And water.

VW BlueMotion cars use Adblue as they are mapped for economy hence they produce less CO2 and more NOx - which has to be neutralised for Euro4/5 emissions.

 

Superb Mk1 2.0 is a different story, the DPF not being close-coupled runs too cold, and unless you blast up and down the motorway at high speed all the time, it won't regenerate at its own accord, hence the additive, which, as stated above will lower the regeneration temperature from around 550 to 450 degrees.  Or thereabouts, can't remember exactly, it was a long time ago I was mapping these for a car manufacturer.

[Cown]

Lets not forget that the 2.0 TDI engine was never meant to be fitted with DPF. EU regulations demanded it, hence the bad design and placement of the DPF itself. 

 

Also why there are lots of problems with these types of DPF by the way. Newer designs put them right besides the engine block, turbo etc. to keep it hot at all times. 

Edited 5 January, 2014 by Cown

[jimbof]

Dont be fooled, VAG group cars use ADBLUE, Peugeot Citroen do not. I had the same warning lights in my Superb at 38K miles, Skoda wanted £295 and would not tell me anything about how the system works or is topped up. A friend who works in the Motor factor industry got me a 15 ltr tub of Adblue for about £14, I topped up the tank with about 5ltr using a small funnel and some rubber hose which took me about fifteen minutes, It lasted about 9000 miles before I had to do it again and it has been perfect, Just top it up and reset the dash warning light with a cheap OBD reader (Mine was £12) and its job done!

You should read the self-study guide on DPF with additive of the correct vintage for your car, which is here:

http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_330.pdf

The DPF additive is an "iron rich" substance; whereas adblue is basically urea.  The purpose of adblue is to reduce nitrogen oxides, whereas DPF additive is about improving the combustion of diesel particulates in the particulate filter.  They serve totally different purposes and by using adblue instead of DPF additive you will have a DPF which is clogged (unless you always drive like a bat out of hell, in which case your exhaust might be hot enough to prevent clogging).

[Skodawally]

I posted the original query and since done a lot of research... Got it sorted now (see above) but wanted to warn about two things:

 

1. Don't risk any alternative fluid. Adblue isn't right and might f up your motor

2. Don't have the DPF taken off. The government doesn't like emissions systems being messed with and are onto this one - I read just before Christmas that new MOT rules will mean that testers have to check for the presence of any OE DPF, and if it isn't there the car will fail whether the emissions are right or not! Take off your DPF and you will never pass another MOT until you have put one back again. I considered this myself and am now glad I didn't.

 

Hope this helps somebody avoid big problems.

[Skodawally]

Follow up from last post.

See here for info https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/diesel-particulate-filters-guidance-note

[Cown]

Your rules only apply to UK, not the rest of EU. In Denmark we still don't have any proper check ups for DPF.