Looking Out For Each Other...........

[bealine]

An element of risk? Sure, I understand that, the challenge is what makes us human beings - it's why people choose to take part in risky activities abseil down cliffsides, bungee or freefall parachute jump etc.   

I think we're all agreed, though, that only a prize pratt of the first degree would do something without minimising the risks first.   A pilot would not take an aeroplane up without carrying out his routine checks that everything works first, or a parachautist will check his chute canopy and webbing all over for damage after each use.   Divers go down in pairs and check each other's kit before going under.   So, there's nothing wrong, or unmanly, about doing what we can to minimise the risks when driving or riding is there?

To take risks recklessly is an extremely selfish action - it can deeply affect the people who have to deal with a fatal road accident for life.   If you're going to take risks, take calculated ones!

[grr666]

Absolutely, which is why I'm an ATGATT.

 

(All The Gear All The Time) and not as some might have thought 

one of these 

 

 

AT AT (All Terrain Armoured Transport)

[sko-with-go]

I agree with the above

Apart from bikes not giving a thrill. They just do for me. Especially over cars, most cars are just boring and slow compared.

 

I never said they don't give a thrill, I just said that the risk didn't justify the thrill for me personally.

 

I love speed, just ask Lloyd! .....but I know that part of my character is that I can lack self control at times, I would be my own worst enemy on a bike, and that's before we take the actions of others into account!

 

One of the questions my new girlfriend asked me before we properly got together was.... 'are you into bikes?' and I responded with almost exactly what I said above, she said 'that's a relief I don't date guys who are into bikes' - she had someone close who died in a bike accident, I also knew someone personally who died in a bike accident, I think there's a lot of people out there who know someone who has died in a bike accident.

 

they don't call them 'donor cycles' in hospitals for nothing :(

 

RIDE SAFE

[grr666]

It's an interesting discussion, back when I was 21 (20+ years ago) a very dear friend of mine was killed 

in a car crash. No other vehicles involved, he hit a patch of black ice is the best guess (It was Jan 4th) 

and lost control of his car at 70 mph, He hit a lampost side on (Driver side) b pillar and the lampost was 

on the left so he must have spun. There were no witnesses either as the incident happened at 3.30 am. 

He was driving a decent and tidy Mark 1 Golf with a small engine. I'm sure it was a 1.1 but it was a long

time ago.

 

Anyway about 15 minutes after the crash yours truly comes down the road in my car, (we worked

at the same place in Tilbury Dock) I recognise the car which is now surrounded by the police and fire brigade

etc so I pull over to stop. Remember this is long before all and sundry had a mobile phone. They were just

starting to become popular but were still out of my price range back when I was 21. I spoke to the police and gave

them all his details (as back then we still remembered things like phone numbers etc) and I remember this big copper

getting in between me and my view of my mate in his car. I just caught a glimpse and he appeared to be okay but had a 

neck brace on and they were preparing to remove the roof. There wasn't much more I could do on the scene so 

continued on to our destination to let his driver know what was going on (We were both drivers mates at the same firm) 

 

I went out to work with my driver and it wasn't until about midday when we got back to the yard that I learned my buddy 

had been killed. (No mobile phones remember) He was already dead when I was trying to see over the coppers shoulder.

The impact wasn't what killed him, The car held together pretty well, what did for him was a large biscuit tin

(Like you get at Christmas) full of tapes which used to live in the passenger footwell. It became a projectile inside

the car and struck him in the side of the head as the car came to a sudden and instant stop on the lampost.

Splitting his head open like a melon in the process, the authorities reckon death was instantaneous so at least my bud didn't

suffer during his last few minutes alone in a smashed car.

 

The ironic thing here is that we both got to know each other back when we both had motorbikes, and larked about

something rotten on them and never came to (much) harm. No sooner did he get a car (He'd been driving just a year)

then he was gone. I just believe when it's your lot it's your lot... By all means do what you can to minimise risk.

The gear I wear now on a bike is VASTLY superior to what I wore back in the day. I used to wear a fashion biker jacket

with no armour at all, any old pair of jeans and usually trainers although having my foot crushed between my bike and

a black cab back then eventually convinced me boots were a good idea. I always wore gloves but my lid was cheap and

second hand too. It's a good job I never had a serious off because most of my gear would have done little to protect me 

but on my second time around biking my gear is much much better. 

You do what you can, my wife has good quality and full kit from top to toe as well. The rest of it is down to riding to survive

and blind luck. Those are realistically the best odds I can expect. 

 

I read an interesting post elsewhere about what the most common injuries that are responsible for killing bikers after an off.

Copied and pasted here

 

top 5 causes of death/mechanism of injuries in cases of motorcyclists that are pronounced dead at the scene or on arrival... are in order... 



Catastrophic traumatic brain injury (TBI) - severe blunt force trauma to the head causing either instant cessation of brain stem activity or inter-cranial haemorrhage. (Most common cause of general injury death) 

Internal bleeding due to blunt force trauma to the abdomen and chest. 

Cervical spine fractures causing fatal spinal chord injury. Broken neck. Often combined with TBI... impact to head causes unsurvivable TBI and spinal injury. 

Traumatic aortic transection - blunt force trauma to the chest literally ripping the aorta from the heart resulting in very quick death due to internal blood loss. Second most common cause of injury death in general (as opposed to motorcycle accidents), after TBI. 

Exsanguination following penetrating trauma or lacerations (bodywork, tree branches, fence posts, etc) 


1-4 are the most common, in about 90% of the cases. 

All of these mechanisms of injury are due to massive deceleration that the body just cannot cope with. 
Your brain literally smashes into the inside of the skull. 
Your lungs, liver, heart, they crash into your ribcage and connecting tissue and vessels get stretched to their limit, and beyond. 



In situations where the patient makes it to hospital but does not survive, the cause is usually cardiac arrest due to hypovolemic shock (caused by internal bleeding) or lack of brain activity due to TBI. 




She said often there will be multiple mechanisms that would cause death, e.g. someone who has a head on collision with a car may have a severe head injury that causes instant death, but aortic transection that would cause death in a matter of seconds, and other internal bleeding that would not have been survivable even in the absence of any other injuries. 




It is a very grim reality.

 

 

I don't believe any car driver wants to cause any of these, but it's the reality we face in the absence of airbags

 

and crumple zones. Keep em peeled

[Paul007]

I posted about having this closed as I thought we'd all got the message about observation (or lack of). Seems there's mileage in this thread yet. Driving a car is about observation and planning, neither of which took place it appears as far as the car driver is concerned. 

[bealine]

There is indeed still mileage in this thread, if only to make drivers and riders think more about each other.   Reading grr666's post above, I am going out to the car to check what projectiles I have left lying about!   Off-topic as it concerns aeroplanes, but most of the fatalities aboard the British Midland crash at Kegworth in January 1989 were caused by baggage and other projectiles flying through the cabin.   For many years afterwards, the CAA restricted cabin baggage weights and banned bags with wheels for that reason.

Similary, I grew up in a tiny village in North Devon.   As a youngster of 8 or 9 years old in 1965, I remember a horrific motorbike accident which put me off riding them for life!   A young couple had left the pub at the top of the village on a BSA Bantam (250cc) and rode down the hill to the bend at the bottom (I don't know if alcohol was related as this was before the drink/driving law was introduced in January 1966.)   Unknown by anyone, a "Notts Quarries" Thames Trader Tipper had spilled some gravel earlier in the day which caused the bike to lose traction and slide as the couple went into the bend.   Unfortunately, they both hit a high stone wall and were killed almost instantly (no mandatory crash helmets either back then), to this day, you can still see where the wall had to be repaired afterwards. 

I remember the butcher's wife, who lived in the last house before the bend, used to bring out a yard brush and sweep the roadway at the bend twice a day ever afterwards!

Edited 13 September, 2014 by bealine