Query: 6 Speed Tiptronic Gearbox on Petrol 1.6 16v Fabia

[GeneralPurpose]

Guys/Girls, any of you have the above car with the 1.6 16v petrol engine and Tiptronic 6spd auto box? I'm having a slight issue with mine. It's reluctant to change down from 4th gear into 3rd at times when 4th gear is too high. An example might be when approaching a roundabout in an urban environment where speed may drop to 20mph on the approach, and if clear not stopping and sticking your foot down and off you go. Well, mine goes but it does so in 4th gear still, instead of changing down to 3rd. In any other gear it's fine and drops down effortlessly. I can kick it down but that's not always a good idea as however you do it it will surge a bit and with other traffic in close proximity clearly isn't a good thing. The gearbox torque limiter is also groaning in fourth gear so not generally very good for the car. The car has had the gearbox reset to learning mode with the latest software loaded. It made a difference but not to the situation I want to improve. 

 

My question is: what are you guys experiencing? Has anyone had this or a similar problem?  Just want to know before I do anything else to the box. 

[Chris_55]

Not had this problem but a search for VW 09G gearbox faults may show something up. How many miles on it?

[GeneralPurpose]

Chris, it's got just 19k miles on it. It's an estate and we have had it for near two years now. But it had a hard life before we got it. It only ever drove in a sleepy little village on the south coast, never going over 50mph and rarely ever warming fully up. It covered just 9,800 miles in the first 3 years of it's life. It's our second car that my wife mainly uses now. It's immaculate and is superb to drive. I've flushed the crap out of the engine and conditioned the motor over a period of time to rev properly and it goes well now, uses no oil and meets it's power output on the dyno. But it's started to slip in 3rd gear under power and it's slow to drop out of 4th gear too when slowing down at roundabouts as per the first post. In fact it won't drop out of 4th gear until around 18mph. Everything reset, latest software and it's now in learning mode which has improved things slightly but nowhere near enough and as I mentioned it's started slipping in 3rd. I will strip the box if necessary but just want to hear what others think on this. What speed is everyone elses Tiptronic box dropping out of 4th gear?

[thomasaspin]

Chris, it's got just 19k miles on it. It's an estate and we have had it for near two years now. But it had a hard life before we got it. It only ever drove in a sleepy little village on the south coast, never going over 50mph and rarely ever warming fully up. It covered just 9,800 miles in the first 3 years of it's life. It's our second car that my wife mainly uses now. It's immaculate and is superb to drive. I've flushed the crap out of the engine and conditioned the motor over a period of time to rev properly and it goes well now, uses no oil and meets it's power output on the dyno. But it's started to slip in 3rd gear under power and it's slow to drop out of 4th gear too when slowing down at roundabouts as per the first post. In fact it won't drop out of 4th gear until around 18mph. Everything reset, latest software and it's now in learning mode which has improved things slightly but nowhere near enough and as I mentioned it's started slipping in 3rd. I will strip the box if necessary but just want to hear what others think on this. What speed is everyone elses Tiptronic box dropping out of 4th gear?

 

 

are we talking D4 or in manual shifters 4 as i will check mine now 

[GeneralPurpose]

Hi thomas, yes, D4. Thanks for checking. Looks as if I may have a defective valve body on third that could be causing the slip in 3rd. There is some adjustment but need to look into that. I'm not an auto tranny eggspurt!

[Chris_55]

Our '08 hatch bought new, usually only drives round a little town on the south coast mostly under 40mph and rarely ever warming fully up , it's got 25k on it, but the gearbox seems fine.

I was going to suggest a fluid + filter change but as you say the gears are slipping I'm not sure if this would be helpful, have you taken a fluid sample to look for burnt/black condition?

[GeneralPurpose]

Not yet Chris. I'll be doing that no doubt.

[Chris_55]

Drove the car today and noted the gear change speed when slowing off throttle, no brakes.

 

5th to 4th 25mph, 4th to 3rd 18mph.

 

I think it probably changes at similar speeds when braking but happens to fast to note precise speeds.

[thomasaspin]

Mine went to forth at 27 mph on a flat / slight incline and dropped back down at 18 mph

[GeneralPurpose]

Thanks all of you. MIne is dropping out of 4th at 18mph, just like yours. However, I have to kick it down really hard to get it to drop out of 4th to 3rd even at 20mph, otherwise the torque limiter rumbles like mad telling me it's in too higher gear. Do you guys have to do the same?

[thomasaspin]

Thanks all of you. MIne is dropping out of 4th at 18mph, just like yours. However, I have to kick it down really hard to get it to drop out of 4th to 3rd even at 20mph, otherwise the torque limiter rumbles like mad telling me it's in too higher gear. Do you guys have to do the same?

 

could you rephrase that so i can try it in my car tomorrow morning and report back 

[thomasaspin]

mine dropped out of forth at 18 and i was gradually slowing down on purpose not forcing it or anything

[GeneralPurpose]

Hi thomas, yes mine is definitely the same as yours when slowing down. It always drops to 3rd gear at 18mph which seems to be what it should do. My main issue is that when I approach a roundabout, wide junction or any road situation where I have to slow but don't have to stop, my speed (for example) may drop to 20 or 22 mph in 4th gear, but then I need power to accelerate and the gearbox just stays in 4th gear as I put the power on. It refuses to change down from what is clearly a too higher gear (4th). The torque limiter rumbles as the box strains to cope. It will only change down if I 'kick' the box down really hard. This makes it difficult to manage the power safely at that speed in close quarter driving where the car will surge forwards even if you are quick to come off the power. An in any case, this makes the box go straight back to 4th gear when you lift the power. It's fine in every other gear. 

[Chris_55]

Can't say I've noticed this with ours, but what would make the box change down?

 

I guess a combination of throttle position, vehicle speed, inclination, inlet manifold pressure?

 

I guess it could be the gearbox ECU is missing a value it needs, rather than the box itself being faulty.

 

Have you scanned the car for fault codes in the engine, gearbox and ABS?

[Ant FR]

auto box , first thing i would try is an oil change.  The old tiptronics have a tendency to wreck their oil earlier than VAG ever said it should be good for, Think book service is 60k ish, but many changed spec on oil as the oe spec was rubbish.  but this has to be the cheapest thing to try a

[GeneralPurpose]

Chris, yes...scanned and no faults showing. Latest software loaded and put into learning mode. No difference. Car will only change down from 4th to 3rd when 'kicked' down. A kick down shouldn't be needed at 22mph especially when the torque limiter is under stress and groaning. The box is designed to click down on it's own should it need to. Car has only covered 19k miles from new. The box is sealed for life but we now know Aisin recommends the oil is changed around the 60k mark. This can be done but is expensive. Might be a solenoid going out to lunch or trouble with a valve. Got to look into it some more. Thanks for the input from everyone. Much appreciated.

[Chris_55]

Shouldn't need to be expensive to change the fluid.

 

This is a DIY job but you will need to make some means to get the fluid in the box, maybe a plumbing fitting and some plastic tube.

 

Have a look at youtube for methods, ideally the fluid level should be checked at about 40°C ish temperature checked with VCDS or similar, but if you but back the quantity that came out it should be OK.

 

May take two goes to change most of the fluid as some will be trapped in the torque converter and won't drain.

[GeneralPurpose]

Thanks Chris. I've only ever changed the oil (a complete purge) in a couple of auto tranny's in my time, both Honda's at the dealership I worked for. I had to work from a crib sheet with all the in's and outs that involved. It was a complete success and not hard to do if you follow the procedure properly. We had our own auto tranny expert but it wasn't me. I'll no doubt get geared up in the next little while and change the fluid.