Brake Disc Guard

[silver1011]

Well my time has come!

 

Driving home tonight over a rough road surface with the window down I noticed a metallic rattle.

 

Got home, the rear drivers side disc guard is indeed loose. My fault as I dropped the wheel on it putting the winter wheels on late last year.

 

The question that still remains unanswered is whether or not the disc guard can be replaced without removing:

 

1) The brake disc

2) The caliper

3) The hub

 

Whilst loose it hasn't yet completely failed so I don't plan on cutting it off, at least just yet.

 

I would like to replace it but won't be removing the hub if this is indeed required.

 

Anyone know for sure!?

[mikey vrs]

I replaced mine last year on my vrs,officially you do need to remove the hub to get the shield off & the new one on but i didnt bother as i cut the small part of metal off the new shields & slid the shield on,its perfectly secure as its held on with 3 bolts,you do need to remove the disc to get to the bolts though. However as yours is a scout this info may not apply...

[silver1011]

Good call, it's actually on the Superb but I'm figuring that they'll be very similar, with the Superb parked next to the Octavia they certainly look similar.

 

I'll invest in a pair of tin snips I think, I'm due to swap back to the summer alloys in a week or two so will have a go then!

 

Stole this off another thread, it looks like once the wheel is off access is pretty good...

 

 

 

Which bit did you cut off? The curved support at 7 o'clock?

 

Edited 15 April, 2015 by silver1011

[mikey vrs]

Worse bit of the job was undoing the caliper carrier bolts as they were very tight & access isnt the best,its just the same as replacing the pads & discs,not a bad job to do,the shields are quite expensive, i think i paid around £50 for both. The shields had rotted around the bolt mounting points on mine. Yes i cut off that bit,you will need a spline socket to undo the carrier bolts,if you dont have one your welcome to borrow mine. 

[silver1011]

I found this useful thread...

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/210922-octavia-mkii-replace-rear-brake-pads-using-laser-1314/

 

This appears to show the nuts required to remove the caliper...

 

 

Access looks fun!

[mikey vrs]

They are easy to undo,its the caliper carrier bolts that can be tricky,you have to remove the carrier to get the disc off (on the vrs anyway). Its not a bad job to do,im happy to come & give you a hand when you decide to do them if you want. 

[blackspaven]

Not done it on this car, but done it on other older VAG cars and it's normally not that hard to get those bolts out cos it's nice a simple.... hold the 15mm spanner still and give the other one some welly! . The apparent lack of space isn't an issue once your in there, just looks a bit worse than it is cos the use of two spanners is so ridiculously caveman simple. From memory the only bit that was occasionally tricky on my old golf was the gap for the 15mm bolt to slide the spanner into was annoyingly slightly narrower than the thickness of my spanner so had to get another one, but other than that it's childsplay.

 

You'll be fine.

[silver1011]

Thanks guys!

 

I'll get the guard ordered up!

 

Did you have to use a caliper rewind tool?

Edited 15 April, 2015 by silver1011

[blackspaven]

If anyone knows about replacing the rear pads and handbrake, can they have a quick shufty at the link silver gave (reprinted on the line below) as I don't know how much that forum is looked at and it's made me curious.

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/210922-octavia-mkii-replace-rear-brake-pads-using-laser-1314/

 

Apologies silver, I forgot it was the rear brake coming off, but the pics above look almost exactly the same arrangement as when I worked on front brakes, hence my first request to look at the link on this post.

 

You'll still be alright. :p

Edited 15 April, 2015 by blackspaven

[silver1011]

I'm finding this quite useful, plenty of pictures...

 

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40013

 

Not sure what the 'rotar' is or what necessitates it's removal?

 

Goes off to investigate!

 

EDIT: sussed it, it's what those in the US call discs! 

Edited 15 April, 2015 by silver1011

[mikey vrs]

Thanks guys!

 

I'll get the guard ordered up!

 

Did you have to use a caliper rewind tool?

I did on mine but i replaced the pads & discs at the same time as the shields,if your just changing the shield then no. Its a easy job to do (i would say that been a mechanic) 

[blackspaven]

That second picture is what I was on about with the two spanners. Makes you feel proper manly turning lumps of metal in opposite directions to undo another bit of metal!!

 

Reminds me seeing the red golf ones, I have some discontinued Light Green Skoda Hammerite in the shed I was gonna paint my calipers! Forgot all about that. :clap:

 

The bloke doesn't even remove the handbrake cable by the look of it on that thread, which is nifty. He also does appear to not mention to take some fluid out the reservoir or make some alternative appropriate action for when you compress the caliper though.

Edited 15 April, 2015 by blackspaven

[silver1011]

The comments on brake fluid are interesting.

The thread linked in post #10 seems to contain some healthy debate and whether anything needs doing prior or post winding the caliper pistons back in.

Bleeding the brakes or forcing dirty brake fluid back into the system etc.

[blackspaven]

I'll be honest, whenever I've done it I've just taken the top off, wound back in bit at a time and kept checking the level. If it was getting close to the top  drew some off and put it back in once the brakes were changed and pressed the pedal to expand the pistons again.

 

So that would put me in the option one camp.   Might not be ideal, but I've never had any problems, it was how I shown, and at least one seasoned mechanic on that thread says he and his colleagues have never seen a single problem in doing that in ten years. Still, it's fair discussion point.

[brad1.8T]

Too messy & too great a chance of something going wrong if you try and force the old fluid out through the bleed nipple.

 

I prefer to syringe out the MC reservoir, leave the lid loose & push the "dirty" fluid back up the lines.  It's not like the old days when we used to leave the brake fluid in forever - our fluid is only ever 2-3 years old if the vehicle has been serviced properly.

 

edit: And the guy in the briskoda thread is taking his life in his hands trusting a standard VW jack like that - absolute insanity.

Edited 16 April, 2015 by brad1.8T

[silver1011]

Another quick question (there'll be more!)...

 

As I'm not replacing the pads can I simply remove the caliper and caliper carrier in one go?

 

i.e. not remove the 13mm and 15mm bolts that secure the caliper to the carrier, I simply remove the carrier with the caliper in situ using the M14 spline?

 

I'm guessing the answer is probably no as to gain access to the M14 spline I'll first need to remove the caliper from the carrier?

 

This image shows the caliper removed leaving just the carrier and pads...

 

 

Access to the M14 spline without the caliper in place looks OK, with the caliper in place I wonder if will be a lot more difficult if not impossible?

 

The reason I ask leads me on the my next question, if I'm not replacing the pads then I won't need to wind the caliper piston back in? Right? Or wrong!

[silver1011]

In preparation I've just purchased a spline socket set containing the all important M14...

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BERGEN-TOOLS-Triple-Square-Spline-And-Tamperproof-Sockets-1-4-3-8-And-1-2-DR-/231533801735?

 

 

In case needed, a brake caliper piston rewind tool (I do plan to change the discs and pads at some point when needed so a worthy investment)...

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310452216367?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

 

And some brake grease and anti-squeal paste (copper slip frowned upon these days?)...

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190716838301?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

 

 

Preparing for the worse (i.e the hub needs removing) I've just picked up a pair of tin snips  ...

 

 

Oh, and the all-important disc guard / shield, £24.99 inc. postage from Rainworth Skoda in Mansfield.

 

A job for next weekend.

 

 

[silver1011]

Sounds like a plan!

[mikey vrs]

Might be very wrong here, but wondering if the carrier and pads actually need to be removed? If they do, remember there will be a lip caused by wear on the disc itself, would that cause any issue in removing them?

 

Mike

I cant comment on a non vrs model but on my vrs i had to remove the carrier as you need the disk off to get to the shield mounting bolts & you cant get the disk off without removing the carrier.im quite happy to come to Whitby to give you a hand (lovely place Whitby) if you buy me fish & chips. 

[mikey vrs]

Another quick question (there'll be more!)...

 

As I'm not replacing the pads can I simply remove the caliper and caliper carrier in one go?

 

i.e. not remove the 13mm and 15mm bolts that secure the caliper to the carrier, I simply remove the carrier with the caliper in situ using the M14 spline?

 

I'm guessing the answer is probably no as to gain access to the M14 spline I'll first need to remove the caliper from the carrier?

 

This image shows the caliper removed leaving just the carrier and pads...

 

 

Access to the M14 spline without the caliper in place looks OK, with the caliper in place I wonder if will be a lot more difficult if not impossible?

 

The reason I ask leads me on the my next question, if I'm not replacing the pads then I won't need to wind the caliper piston back in? Right? Or wrong!

This is a really easy job....dont panic...lol...on my vrs i needed to undo & move to one side the caliper to get better access to the carrier bolts,if your not replacing the pads then you dont need to wind back the piston,just clean the pads,carriers where the pads sit & id put a bit of copperslip on the pad(non friction side  ).

[silver1011]

Brill  :sun:

[mikey vrs]

Silver,i can give you a hand on next sunday if you want? i cant do saturday as im doing my mates vans discs & pads all round,im not 100% sure as its been a while but if the carrier bolts are M14 then the hub bolt is M16.....my set didnt come with this size in it & i was told that the bolt isnt to be re-used as it stretches & its tightened up to a fair old torque,its blooming tight to undo apparently.

[silver1011]

Silver,i can give you a hand on next sunday if you want? i cant do saturday as im doing my mates vans discs & pads all round,im not 100% sure as its been a while but if the carrier bolts are M14 then the hub bolt is M16.....my set didnt come with this size in it & i was told that the bolt isnt to be re-used as it stretches & its tightened up to a fair old torque,its blooming tight to undo apparently.

 

After the van on Saturday you'll be fed up with the sight of brakes, lol!

 

Not sure what the plans are yet, young kids means I'll be trying to grab a free couple of hours as and when the wife lets me off the lead 

 

Thanks for the offer, very generous! I'll head over to Whitby for fish and chips too!

 

If the hub needs to come off then the tin snips will be getting used and the new guard stuck on eBay! 

[brad1.8T]

If the disc is lipped it will be a pain to attempt removal of the caliper + pads+ carrier as an assembly.  For the sake of 2 allen key bolts i'd pull it apart as it will give you a chance to wire brush all the corrosion on the machined surfaces.

 

You'll probably get away without having to retract the piston.

 

I'm a big fan of copper coat when used very sparingly.

Edited 17 April, 2015 by brad1.8T

[silver1011]

That makes sense, the lip on my discs is actually quite pronounced.

 

The bolts are M14 on the rears, they may be Allen bolts on the front calipers perhaps?

 

I also am a fan of copper slip, you only need to be sat next to your car trying to free a wheel that has welded itself to the face of the hub whilst on a jack to really appreciate a light smear of copper slip!

 

I also apply a small amount to my wheel nuts (not recommended as it may lead to over-tightening / torquing of the steels bolts into the softer alloy).

 

I understand the melting point of copper slip is lower than dedicated brake grease, so if the brakes get hot this heat transfers to the wheel / hub etc. which melts the copper slip. It then runs onto the disc / pad and adversely affects braking performance.

 

Again, I am aware of the risks but apply it sensibly, has worked for me for several years.